OMT: Everton vs Mighty Spurs

[scaramanga]

You know as well as I do that Wanyama, Palacios and Freund are holding, defensive midfielders and can get by on hard work being the limit of their expectations. Jenas, Paulinho and Sissoko are all similar players with more forward running expectation and all have suffered from a section of our fan base picking at them in some weird quasi bully-acting campaign where nothing they can do will satisfy them. They don't fit a preconceived notion of what someone in their position should be doing, because those fans make their mind up on these players quickly, and that is that. It's probably occurred to none of these people that Sissoko is used to playing deeper on the pitch with space to run into, and even though he was one of the attacking 3 midfielders when playing for Saudi Sportswashing Machine, he would have started deeper on the pitch to counter attack. With us, he's always played further forward which has meant a new role effectively. Does any of these anti Sissoko types think about that? Is their any patience afforded to him by them? Is their heck. 'Haha, he's like a 9 year old because he went offside!'

And you must surely see it's a point of discussion because some people still have to be overly negative on him when it isn't warranted. I haven't seen anyone say Sissoko was an 8/10 or higher, merely that he's played well like the whole team did. And while a lot of players get credit for playing their part in a great performance, Sissoko is caveated until cows come home. That's why this is a point of conversation. The people favouring him are saying it how it is, and the people determined to prove their opinion on him correct are the ones least in touch with reality and determined to talk him down unjustly.

As for Lamela or Townsend, if they play well, they get the praise without weird caveats thrown in, and they get criticised when they deserve. There has been nothing like the level of sustained negativity towards those players in spite of decent performances.

He wasn't OK though, not by the standards of a team with our ambitions.

At the risk if sounding like a stuck record, he was at the bottom (or one from) in touches, passes, pass completion, loss of possession, etc. He was at least as bad (arguably worse) than a player who had as big a stinker as I can remember him having for us (Alli).

Lloris didn't have to do much but stunk it up when he did. Alli was involved a lot and made a lot of mistakes. But both of those players have been more than good enough to justify starting in the past. This is Sissoko's best so far and it's still waaaaaay below the standard we need.

I'd be more understanding about his inclusion if he'd done anything in his previous career to have earned it. But other than one match against us and one for France, he hasn't done that either.

 

[parklane1]

I have just read through the last couple of pages on here and i am amazed at the digs at Sissoko ( ONCE AGAIN). He has not been that good here and i think most would agree with that. However he played WELL yesterday and most of the lads i travelled with and others at the game said he was one of our best players. Now i know Stop! Hammer time but i really can not understand those who have slagged him off since he came here will still not accept that yesterday we saw a different player who was involved and played well.

It seems to me there are some who have made their minds up about him being brick and can not bring themselves to admit that on yesterdays performance then he may have turned the corner. SAD really.

 

[Gazza]

I have just read through the last couple of pages on here and i am amazed at the digs at Sissoko ( ONCE AGAIN). He has not been that good here and i think most would agree with that. However he played WELL yesterday and most of the lads i travelled with and others at the game said he was one of our best players. Now i know Stop! Hammer time but i really can not understand those who have slagged him off since he came here will still not accept that yesterday we saw a different player who was involved and played well.

It seems to me there are some who have made their minds up about him being brick and can not bring themselves to admit that on yesterdays performance then he may have turned the corner. SAD really.

He played well is subjective. I think he played like a poor player. The only reason people may counter is that he exceeded your own expectations seeing what he has done previously at Saudi Sportswashing Machine and spurs.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I have just read through the last couple of pages on here and i am amazed at the digs at Sissoko ( ONCE AGAIN). He has not been that good here and i think most would agree with that. However he played WELL yesterday and most of the lads i travelled with and others at the game said he was one of our best players. Now i know Stop! Hammer time but i really can not understand those who have slagged him off since he came here will still not accept that yesterday we saw a different player who was involved and played well.

It seems to me there are some who have made their minds up about him being brick and can not bring themselves to admit that on yesterdays performance then he may have turned the corner. SAD really.

It takes a long time for people to change their opinions on players, especially ones that start off relatively poorly.

i was reading he commentary whilst over in Italy from various sources and his name came up positively in all of them (3).

The sitter he missed wasn't easy at all but he should have hit the target IMO for a player of his quality

 

[parklane1]

He played well is subjective. I think he played like a poor player. The only reason people may counter is that he exceeded your own expectations seeing what he has done previously at Saudi Sportswashing Machine and spurs.

Of course its subjective for some, however myself and the guys i travel with looked at it objectively unlike some on here will not do. ( and i am afraid to say never will).

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I have just read through the last couple of pages on here and i am amazed at the digs at Sissoko ( ONCE AGAIN). He has not been that good here and i think most would agree with that. However he played WELL yesterday and most of the lads i travelled with and others at the game said he was one of our best players. Now i know Stop! Hammer time but i really can not understand those who have slagged him off since he came here will still not accept that yesterday we saw a different player who was involved and played well.

It seems to me there are some who have made their minds up about him being brick and can not bring themselves to admit that on yesterdays performance then he may have turned the corner. SAD really.

So those that think he is no good for us have a pile of evidence to show why they may think that.

So does it not follow that maybe they require more than one game where MS played 'well' to admit that he has turned the corner.

One swallow and all that.

Ps you're a football man @parklane1, what do you genuinely think of him, what he does good and what he does bad? Is there a place for him in a league winning team? Has he got technical issues?

 

[BrainOfLevy]

So those that think he is no good for us have a pile of evidence to show why they may think that.

So does it not follow that maybe they require more than one game where MS played 'well' to admit that he has turned the corner.

One swallow and all that.

Ps you're a football man @parklane1, what do you genuinely think of him, what he does good and what he does bad? Is there a place for him in a league winning team? Has he got technical issues?

I don't think anyone is saying that a good performance yesterday means we now need to strap in for a run of Sissoko 9/10 performances every game. At all. I just think it's clear a fair few people are sick about reading anything to do with Sissoko after he's had a positive game, always laced with over the top criticism and an overly harsh nit picking of a performance that no other player has to deal with.

Surely isn't too much to ask to have our supporters say about one of our players 'yeah we played well, and the team played well and he contributed'. It's not difficult. We don't need to go looking at pass completion stats and laughing at his offside calls. A solid 7/10 can be treated for what it is. A player that has struggled for us has improved this season and earned a start. Is this not a good thing?

 

[parklane1]

So those that think he is no good for us have a pile of evidence to show why they may think that.

So does it not follow that maybe they require more than one game where MS played 'well' to admit that he has turned the corner.

One swallow and all that.

Ps you're a football man @parklane1, what do you genuinely think of him, what he does good and what he does bad? Is there a place for him in a league winning team? Has he got technical issues?

Well being honest i was more then surprised when we bought him here ( the price we paid means nothing though and those who use it to have a go at him are wrong imo), he seems to rush things more then he should and shows ( imo) that he may lack confidence. He is strong and has pace but putting him out wide does not suit his game, however playing through the middle suits him and he showed yesterday that he feels more happy there.

I accept that he has not done that well since he has been here, but he has also not been as bad as some make out and no matter what he does they can not wait to say so. Will he ever become a fan favourite? not a chance as so many have made their mind up that he is brick and no matter how he does he will never impress the keyboard warriors or armchair supporters who will not give him any credit when he does play well. The evidence is in this thread, he had a good game yesterday and most of the fans i met during and after the game said the same thing, but he does not seem to be viewed fairly by a section of fans who as i have said have branded him ( brick, crap etc) and will not admit they may have been a little harsh in their comments.

Not saying that you are one of those.

 

[scaramanga]

Of course its subjective for some, however myself and the guys i travel with looked at it objectively unlike some on here will not do. ( and i am afraid to say never will).

Erm, the very definition of subjective is something that's a person's opinion.

I've posted (at least 3 or 4 times) the objective measurement of his performance and it was poor by any standard.

 

[elltrev]

Erm, the very definition of subjective is something that's a person's opinion.

I've posted (at least 3 or 4 times) the objective measurement of his performance and it was poor by any standard.

Just watched the 90 mins for the first time, and have to say I agree with Scara. Along with Lloris and Alli I thought he was our worst player - a little below average overall. Gave the ball away needlessly quite a few times and had no real positive impact in the final third.

And as Scara said, that is supported by some objective statistics.

The fact that people disagree with that opinion doesn't mean myself and others are biased - it just means we disagree.

Will still support the lad whenever he plays. His work rate was very good at least.

 

[parklane1]

Erm, the very definition of subjective is something that's a person's opinion.

I've posted (at least 3 or 4 times) the objective measurement of his performance and it was poor by any standard.

The last thing you are mate ( at least where Sissoko is concern) is objective. You can quote stats until they come out of your arse( and you do) lets just say we disagree.

 

[Robspur12]

A couple of seasons ago many on this board were clamouring for Dembele to be sold as "he slowed down our play," but Poch knew better. Last season, several posters were saying "don't buy Wanyama he can't pass more than 5 yards, " but Poch knew better. Posters now say Sissoko he's rubbish, he doesn't fit in our team, he should be sold but guess what? Poch knows better. The problem is that if you are not a ball playing, glamour midfielder a la Hoddle or Modric, many posters do not recognize your value.

For me different opinions are great and they are what make a forum. You don't have to think that Sissoko is particularly good or even like the guy.

But what I find distasteful are the way opinions are put forward, as childish attacks , exaggerated criticisms, glorying in his mistakes.

Whatever else he is. the guy is a SPURS player and deserves more support especially when he is struggling with confidence. What seems clear is that our manager rates him much more than many posters on here and as was the case with Dembele and Wanyama, Poch's judgment tends to be the right one.

 

[Robspur12]

Good posts BOL, totally agree with the points you've made.

 

[Mikey10]

A couple of seasons ago many on this board were clamouring for Dembele to be sold as "he slowed down our play," but Poch knew better. Last season, several posters were saying "don't buy Wanyama he can't pass more than 5 yards, " but Poch knew better. Posters now say Sissoko he's rubbish, he doesn't fit in our team, he should be sold but guess what? Poch knows better. The problem is that if you are not a ball playing, glamour midfielder a la Hoddle or Modric, many posters do not recognize your value.

For me different opinions are great and they are what make a forum. You don't have to think that Sissoko is particularly good or even like the guy.

But what I find distasteful are the way opinions are put forward, as childish attacks , exaggerated criticisms, glorying in his mistakes.

Whatever else he is. the guy is a SPURS player and deserves more support especially when he is struggling with confidence. What seems clear is that our manager rates him much more than many posters on here and as was the case with Dembele and Wanyama, Poch's judgment tends to be the right one.

Super post. Sums it up, really.

 

[the dza]

I think from his performance against Juventus pre-season, to his performances against Burnley and Everton, he looks much improved from last season. Operating as the "poor man's Dembele" is a good role for him I think. A good squad option, hopefully he improves further and becomes an important player for us.

 

[thfcsteff]

Cheers Milo. Good to hear. I don't think any of our previous performances have been bad but with Chelsea and Burnley we ultimately failed to make our dominance count. I feel we've struggled against Everton in the past far more than we should, so good to see us come away with a clear win this time.

As for Siberia : taking the train (or more accurately, several trains) from Moscow to Vladivostok, with various stops along the way. Topping and tailing with Moscow and St Petersburg.
Great country, lovely people. Lots of trees. Seriously lots of trees.

Congrats on the new arrival btw.

Full report sometime please in random...I really like Moscow and St.Petersberg, and taking the train across Siberia is right up there on my (thankfully now v very short) bucket list.

FWIW I think the whole Sissoko thing is getting boring. We know he can do better. We know his issue has been confidence. Yesterday I saw him getting in to more useful positions than I remember during a match. He's with us this season. Poch is picking him. He will surely continue to improve. He was effective in the system yesterday...he should've buried the header TBF...

 

[awesome dawson]

Full report sometime please in random...I really like Moscow and St.Petersberg, and taking the train across Siberia is right up there on my (thankfully now v very short) bucket list.

FWIW I think the whole Sissoko thing is getting boring. We know he can do better. We know his issue has been confidence. Yesterday I saw him getting in to more useful positions than I remember during a match. He's with us this season. Poch is picking him. He will surely continue to improve. He was effective in the system yesterday...he should've buried the header TBF...

Apparently it was the wrong sort of cross/difficult angle or some BS.

 

[AuroRaman]

I have just read through the last couple of pages on here and i am amazed at the digs at Sissoko ( ONCE AGAIN). He has not been that good here and i think most would agree with that. However he played WELL yesterday and most of the lads i travelled with and others at the game said he was one of our best players. Now i know Stop! Hammer time but i really can not understand those who have slagged him off since he came here will still not accept that yesterday we saw a different player who was involved and played well.

It seems to me there are some who have made their minds up about him being brick and can not bring themselves to admit that on yesterdays performance then he may have turned the corner. SAD really.

I remember the Burnley game at Wembley when he came on. We had the usual moaners in the crowd who were lambasting our players for every misplaced pass etc, but when Sissoko came on it was different level. He had a couple of touches and then lost possession, the venom from the stands was obscene. I was embarrassed.

I'm glad he got a good reception from the away-ers this weekend.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I remember the Burnley game at Wembley when he came on. We had the usual moaners in the crowd who were lambasting our players for every misplaced pass etc, but when Sissoko came on it was different level. He had a couple of touches and then lost possession, the venom from the stands was obscene. I was embarrassed.

I'm glad he got a good reception from the away-ers this weekend.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

Our fans can be poison (as it sure other clubs can be too)

I was in the Park Lane once when moana guy was abusing Bentley.... as he did very game.... but Bentley wasn't even playing!!!!!

 

[alekaras]

Just seen that Schneiderlin played for Everton. Don't recall him being mentioned even once by the commentator on the Norwegian broadcast.

Nor was Siggy for that matter. In the entire second half I don't think I heard his name once. Good investment of £45m.