O/T Let's kick racism out of football...?

[Spursalot]

Sexist and realist are not mutually exclusive.

What if I modified your argument and said:



* I'm not prepared to write the words on a public forum, even when just making a point. It would obviously be a racist argument.


It doesn't mean you are wrong about being realist. There are practical reasons but the argument is inherently sexist. Its saying men and women cannot compete together because of some stereotypical characteristics. Some women are faster and stronger than some men, so why shouldn't those able to compete by allowed to. Each individual according to their own abilities, that is what non-discrimination is about.

If by 'stereotypical characteristics' you mean 'consistently proven characteristics' then yes.


I assume due to your non-discrimination stance you would be up for no longer segregating (In regards to gender) the olympics? Having men compete against women in the athletics and so on?

After all it would then test each individual according to their abilities.

 

[jts1882]

If by 'stereotypical characteristics' you mean 'consistently proven characteristics' then yes.

I assume due to your non-discrimination stance you would be up for no longer segregating (In regards to gender) the olympics? Having men compete against women in the athletics and so on?

After all it would then test each individual according to their abilities.

I haven't taken a stance on discrimination in this discussion. I just stated that preventing women from playing in the PL is discrimination based on their sex. There may be good reasons for keeping the game single sex, but that doesn't mean its not inherently sexist.

The danger of your first sentence is that it opens the door on discrimination of other kinds. Its true that the average man is stronger and faster than the average women. Consider hypothetically that a "consistently proven characteristic" was found to show that the average person of a certain group was less suited to a manager job in football. Would that justify excluding all people from the group from consideration?

 

[Rob]

Have I missed something here?

Lol only that I was very tired!

 

[Spursalot]

I haven't taken a stance on discrimination in this discussion. I just stated that preventing women from playing in the PL is discrimination based on their sex. There may be good reasons for keeping the game single sex, but that doesn't mean its not inherently sexist.

The danger of your first sentence is that it opens the door on discrimination of other kinds. Its true that the average man is stronger and faster than the average women. Consider hypothetically that a "consistently proven characteristic" was found to show that the average person of a certain group was less suited to a manager job in football. Would that justify excluding all people from the group from consideration?

It may open the door on other issues, however i believe it is true nonetheless. I also do not believe it is sexism for a gender to be segregated for actual differences, it is sexism for the group to be segregated due to their gender.


As to the manager point, no it wouldn't, because being a football manager is not going to endanger you. That would be a mental issue and not a physical one, so i don't believe it is entirely apt an analogy.


I feel the issue is not the sexism within the sport though, but the sexism outside of the sport in the general public's mind. If there was a female league that was equivalent to the PL with as many supporters and viewers then they would have no need to even consider trying to enter the PL.

 

[jts1882]

It may open the door on other issues, however i believe it is true nonetheless. I also do not believe it is sexism for a gender to be segregated for actual differences, it is sexism for the group to be segregated due to their gender.

So if a woman proves to be strong enough and fast enough, should she be able to play in the PL?

The restriction of women because it may endanger them is no longer plausible. The days when they weren't thought to be able to safely run more than 800m are long passed.

 

[diego_maradona]

Re Asian players - it's just a section of society that doesn't have a culture of playing football. Look across couny cricket though and see how English-Asians are flourishing in their sport of choice.

Re Barnes - it's no co-incidence that he can't get a job whilst Chris Hughton is always in such high demand. Barnes has always been an absolute disaster on the touchline.

GB sorry mate but that is utter rubbish. Come to West London where I live, or East London where you will see some very decent Bengali teams and you will understand just how much british born asians prefer the English (and that's what we are) National game to cricket. We are given opportunities at Cricket, not football.

 

[milo]

I think that whether women should be able to play Premier League football is a bit of a red herring. No one is calling for it.

 

[Roy1983]

GB sorry mate but that is utter rubbish. Come to West London where I live, or East London where you will see some very decent Bengali teams and you will understand just how much british born asians prefer the English (and that's what we are) National game to cricket. We are given opportunities at Cricket, not football.

If they're good enough they'll get contracts.