No case for the defence

[Storky]

Stick a player in front of Walker who doesn't shirk his defensive responsibilities and im sure things will go back to how they were when he first came back from injury

I always felt Lennon was good at that - it's a shame he had to leave to get playing time. I still think he's a better option than Andros.

 

[THFC6061]

@THFC6061

Statto, is it possible to get a table of how well we've done with Dier partnering Vertonghen and with Fazio partnering Vertonghen?

Maybe a list of opponents faced too?

No problem...

 

[Mumorn]

20 games, 3 losses for Fazio/Vertonghen with wins over the likes of Everton, Chelsea, cleansheet against Man Utd. Decent.

 

[El Guepardo]

I fear that something has happened behind the scenes. Fazio, whilst not perfect, delivered strong performances in many of his games. He is excellent in the air, there seemed little aerial threat from the opposition when he played. That he doesn't get near the first team now leads me to wondering why & each of the games that he has missed recently, we've missed that aerial presence. Those games include two key fixtures...

Against Chelsea, Chelsea's first goal came as the consequence of a set piece that was not dealt with effectively.

Against Manchester United, Fellaini dominated us in the air.

Why didn't Fazio play either if those games? I'm not saying that the results would have been different but his presence would surely have given us a greater chance.

 

[Jurgen the German]

You must have forgotten how poor Dier was at RB to be saying that mate.

Stick a player in front of Walker who doesn't shirk his defensive responsibilities and im sure things will go back to how they were when he first came back from injury

Would help a bit, but his poor positional play would get him/us into trouble still.

 

[billyiddo]

I think as he uses his pace to get back in to position often it falsely gives off the impression his positional play is poor - to me thats just using your strengths.

He is playing under par atm though and i don't think Dier or Townsend help the matter either but he's played first choice for us when we finished 4th before and for me it isn't a position we need to worry about.

 

[alekaras]

Just to put some perspective (from Twitter):
"Thibaut Courtois: Is only the second player for Chelsea to make an error that led directly to a goal in the PL this season (Cahill vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine)"

So, if I'm reading this correctly, only two player errors that led to goals. Does anyone know how many of the goals we conceded resulted from player errors?

 

[90291Spur]

Just to put some perspective (from Twitter):
"Thibaut Courtois: Is only the second player for Chelsea to make an error that led directly to a goal in the PL this season (Cahill vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine)"

So, if I'm reading this correctly, only two player errors that led to goals. Does anyone know how many of the goals we conceded resulted from player errors?

956.

 

[Rorschach]

Just to put some perspective (from Twitter):
"Thibaut Courtois: Is only the second player for Chelsea to make an error that led directly to a goal in the PL this season (Cahill vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine)"

So, if I'm reading this correctly, only two player errors that led to goals. Does anyone know how many of the goals we conceded resulted from player errors?

Weird stat IMO. All goals are as a result of player errors one way or another.

 

[alekaras]

Not always. Many times it's superior skill by the attackers (see Hull's first goal against Chelsea, or both Chelsea's first two goals in the sane game). You can always argue that one player or another SHOULD have been in a certain position, but maybe if they were the attacking team would have chosen a different combination of passes to break the defense down.

 

[metalgear]

Fellaini

Yedlin to be given a go at some point.

Two new centre halves.

I'd try Yedlin for Townsend to have a more defensive right wing.

 

[NWND]

There's no denying that our defence has been horrendous this season. For me, it's not to do with the midfield. I think Bentaleb, Mason, Stambouli and Dembele, even Lamela and Eriksen have worked hard in midfield to win-back possession. The amount of goals that can be attributed to individual mistakes by our defenders is, however, alarming. I think we have too many players in our back-line that switch off. Walker has done this all through his career and has never cut the brain-farts out of his game. Vertonghen is the same. In the last two seasons, he's always liable for a major error that leads to a goal-scoring chance. Whether that is a missed header, a stupid lunging tackle or just getting caught in possession on the edge of our box. Dier is a kid and there's hope for him. I see a lot of potential there, but he needs leaders around him. Rose has also improved. He's seeing the gradual improvements to his game season-on-season that Walker just isn't getting. Walker is the same player he was when we first bought him. He's stagnated.

For me, if we had one real organiser at the back, a real leader, we'd do better. I think as much as he's not the best player in the world and has made a few howlers, I can see why Fazio was brought in. One, he's a beast in the air and clears everything. This is so important for relieving pressure, particularly that kind of late bombardment when you're defending a narrow lead and the other team gets desperate. One reason why other teams seem so much more comfortable in this situation, is almost all the Premiership teams have at least one defender, who is dominant in the air and heads stuff away from the box. Our only such player is Fazio and he isn't in the team right now. Secondly he's an organiser. Less of the stupid stuff like everyone else but Walker stepping up to play off-side, or Dier and Verts going for the same ball happens when Fazio is in the team.

I think we need a calmer, more intelligent player at the back. So many times we have 2 to 3 defenders go ball-chasing and leaving someone free. It takes someone to step back and see the bigger picture, the bigger threats.

I don't rate Vertonghen at all. I think he's possibly the most overrated player in the squad. He cannot defend. He's a good footballer, but the amount of times he just gets sucked to the ball or is in no-mans land is frightening for someone talked about as being world-class at times.

 

[P.D.]

Agreed. Dier was dropped from right back for Chiriches who looked considerably better, but now people want Dier in there again despite him being in dodgy form over the last couple of weeks at least?

He has been dodgy at CB though the last couple of weeks not RB. I think he was poor at RB before because he was starting to look very tired, maybe the pace of a first season in this league was catching up with him. However now we've gone down to one game a week more time to recover and more importantly more time on the training ground.

I like Walker but he's been poor for a long time now and I think we need to show that poor performances don't get rewarded, and by poor I mean directly at fault for several goals recently as well. Not just a random one off game.

 

[imcallingbullsh*t]

Everyone does seem to have a short memory regarding Fazio's distribution and the goals that were directly caused by his pass, rather than a positional problem we are talking about the others.

Fazio is a good organiser and positioning is great, but no point perfectly cutting out a pass and then giving it to the opposition.

Not saying he shouldn't be brought back in, however its pretty obvious why he was removed.

 

[NWND]

Yeah I Fazio was a cheap stop gap because Moreno was injured and Mussachio was too expensive. Poch clearly has identified defence as a priority hence why we appear to be trying to get Wimmer and Alderweirwhateverhisnameis

 

[parklane1]

Weird stat IMO. All goals are as a result of player errors one way or another.

tickle my balls with a feather, once again we can all slag off our defenders ( and we do) but until we strengthen our CM and give the back four protection there will no be change.

 

[Pirate55]

I don't think that the system needs to be tweaked, I just think that we need to be more consistent in applying it. That will come as our players gain experience and be helped no end by adding some depth this summer.

Do you really think a midfield duo of Mason and Bentelab are the answer? We are being far too often overrun in those areas and totally exposed in defence as a direct result. Either we need to change formation, or upgrade on one or both of those players.

Dembele helped solidify us against Man U and apparently even Palinho managed to improve things on Saturday. It must be obvious surely that we need bolstering in this department. Personally, I would like to see a dedicated DM between them and move more to a 433.

 

[Pirate55]

I don't agree. We play a high risk, high reward strategy. When the team defend from the front as a unit we look very good, when we don't, we don't. Our team lacks depth and I think that we are paying the price for that a little. We also have a very young squad which inevitably lead to bigger fluctuations in form. Adding a dedicated DM would mean a complete change in tactics and I do not think that our performances have been so bad this season to warrant abandoning Poch's preferred approach.

High risk, high reward is not a strategy that is likely to bring long term success. To be successful playing this way, one needs quality all over the pitch. Hardly any team is successful by neglecting defence. We have been shambolic there this season. Our defence can't even mark and pick up from set pieces. Wholesale changes needed both in defensive cover and quality defenders - preferably ones that really like defending!

 

[billyiddo]

Why is it always the tactics which cop the blame? We've generally played with the same set up for most the season, taking in our good form/bad form and everything in between - were people complaining about 4231 with Bentaleb and Mason when we dominated Arsenal and Chelsea? Were we getting over run with them in the team when we had a decent defensive record over the period of games where Fazio/Vertonghen were partnered in defense? To my recollection that's a big fat no

 

[Pirate55]

Why is it always the tactics which cop the blame? We've generally played with the same set up for most the season, taking in our good form/bad form and everything in between - were people complaining about 4231 with Bentaleb and Mason when we dominated Arsenal and Chelsea? Were we getting over run with them in the team when we had a decent defensive record over the period of games where Fazio/Vertonghen were partnered in defense? To my recollection that's a big fat no

Equally, why are you giving tactics a complete pass. We generally haven't played well this season, with a couple of notable exceptions. We have however looked extremely vulnerable defensively in the vast majority of games. Our results and league position have been heavily reliant on Kane and Eriksens late goals getting us out of trouble. This vulnerability has been a direct result of our tactics of playing attacking full backs, inadequate defensive cover and exposed defenders.