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Next Spurs Manager v.2
- Thread starter Gutter Boy
- Start date
I would love us to get Bielsa. Marseille are strongly linked with him but i think if we made him an offer he'd choose us over them. Did brilliantly at Athletic Bilbao taking them to the Europa League Final (knocking out Man United) and took them to the Copa Del Rey final in the same season. Took to Chile to their best ever finish at the World Cup and in my opinion he goes a bit under the radar. He is the best coach in the world according to Guardiola. The only downside is that like LVG he's getting on a bit (he's 58) and isn't really a long term solution but you can't argue with his record.
Superted
Jonathan Woodgate
What the hell, I'm with you. It will be entertaining if nothing else.
Would there be a revolt? There might be a mini melt down with some on here but the fans who attend the games haven't exactly created a poisonous atmosphere and that's usually how its all gauged. If there's constant booing and chanting 'Sherwood out' then for sure, but there hasn't been that and its not surprising because on the pitch Sherwood has been doing a decent job....
Good analysis, only thing I wanted to point out is that it's funny that we've made so many mistakes picking managers that we have categories of mistakes that each potential manager would fall into lol. Theoretically it should be easy for us to pick the best manager by process of elimination.
Lost Mango
Allan Nielsen
Or the fans think he is gone in a month so what is the point of boo-ing?
He has done an average job (i.e achieved what has been expected from this squad) IMO rather than something better than that. Where decent fits on the achievement scale is somewhat subjective I guess.
Hold your horses everyone. If Emirates Marketing Project don't win the league who's to say they won't sack Pellegrini?
Thats 2 jobs in the PL that will be more appealing that us.
Forget LVG. Forget CA.
Realistically its FDB, RAFA, Pochettino and TS
And… and… D*v*d M*y*s
Thats 2 jobs in the PL that will be more appealing that us.
Forget LVG. Forget CA.
Realistically its FDB, RAFA, Pochettino and TS
And… and… D*v*d M*y*s
Not sure how you all can be 100% sure Spaletti, Allegri or anyone else for that matter would be another Santini or Ramos. Tell me what attributes of their's in terms of their coaching makes them so similar. Or is it because they are foreign and their English isn't fantastic?
The yardstick that some of these failed elsewhere shouldn't automatically discount them from the race. Rodgers was sacked by Reading. Martinez relegated with Wigan. Who'd say no to them now?
Surely we should be looking at characteristics of a manager, the style of football they want to implement, and see if it's a fit for what we want to achieve.
I fully agree with Jordinho's earlier post. We don't necessarily need a football hipster manager like tucher or Bielsa necessarily. Could be from a lower league if they've shown great promise and the traits that we'd like in our next manager.
The yardstick that some of these failed elsewhere shouldn't automatically discount them from the race. Rodgers was sacked by Reading. Martinez relegated with Wigan. Who'd say no to them now?
Surely we should be looking at characteristics of a manager, the style of football they want to implement, and see if it's a fit for what we want to achieve.
I fully agree with Jordinho's earlier post. We don't necessarily need a football hipster manager like tucher or Bielsa necessarily. Could be from a lower league if they've shown great promise and the traits that we'd like in our next manager.
milo
Jack L. Jones
As much as I would like that to be true, I think that one of the main criteria we should be looking for is someone who can unite the fans and win the instant respect of the dressing room.
The risk with a manager who is unproven in a top league is that the mumoring and infighting continue and the new man isn't given a chance.
That is true. Particularly with us. We need a figure head to rally around and unite us all again.
My point that just because a manager ( with a big reputation) may have failed somewhere before it doesn't mean they should be ruled out completely
braineclipse
Willie Hall
De Boer: One result, in what as rather odd game because of their fans, doesn't concern me much. They're on course for a 4th consecutive league title under him, that has happened because he's made a habit out of losing to teams like Zwolle. I know it's Ajax, but as far as results go his have been good. They haven't pulled up trees in Europe, but the days when Ajax did pull up trees are now long gone. I've seen some of their matches and with far lower profile players they've performed well against (currently) much bigger sides. They've done so whilst playing good football in what seems like a very good system with a lot of young and inexperienced players. Under him they've also more or less returned to producing some very good players that have gone on to impress in bigger leagues, a (small) sign of quality imo.
He's not without risk, of course. But what you say about him - only proven in one league, best team around, not pulled up tress in Europe is more or less true about Conte too. It was mentioned before that Conte's first league title was without big spending, I'm not so sure about that. His first title was in the 11/12 season I think, and according to transfermarkt they had a net spend of around £70m that season. (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/juventus-fc/transfers/verein_506_2011_default_default_alle_a_default.html) And looking at that list of signings there were some real hits, but also some proper misses. Much more than De Boer I think it's fair to say that Conte's Juventus hasn't been pulling up trees in Europe, considering the comparable financial muscle of the two teams. There's also the formation issue, back 3 etc. Will he change it? How will it work with us. I think De Boer and Pochettino are better fits.
Which brings us to Pochettino. You mention his net spend, but as I mentioned previously in this thread "looking at transfermarkt they at least had £20m+ net spends registered this season for Swansea, West Ham, Norwich, Fulham, Cardiff, Hull and Crystal Palace. Southamptons £33m net spend isn't them just massively outspending everyone and then outperforming them." If you want to look at net spend compared to rival teams and you look at Pochettino in the financially very strong Premiership compared to Conte's spending in the Serie A I think the financial factor undercuts Conte significantly more than Pochettino. Remember we're talking post-Mourinho-collapse-Inter here. We're talking a regressing Milan side selling Thiago Silva and Ibra. We're talking Roma who this summer sold Lamela and Marquinhos this summer to make a net profit. Napoli of course also sold Cavani. I think you're being harsh on his Espanyol stay too, but I might have to read up on that a bit more to properly argue that case.
Simeone is the one with truly outstanding results in terms of club size and money spent compared to rivals. He's also the one with impressive European results. However he plays a very specific style at a club now almost without stars and certainly without primadonnas. I have serious doubts if his style will translate to us and the Premiership. Never mind the potential language problems that I think will be more significant with him and Conte than De Boer and Pochettino. (I also think there's no chance of us getting Simeone)
All in all that adds up to me more or less grouping them in one bunch. Some strong positives for all imo, some real potential for sure, but also plenty of risks and unknowns. For me Pochettino proving himself in England, he will know our opponents and to some extent our players along with what works in this league just about edges it. If I thought we could get Conte I might rather have him, but honestly I think it's a lot closer than you make it out to be. Simeone - honestly, I think he would be bottom of the 4 right now.
I
indianspur
Guest
but hasnt LVG turned down Spurs no matter what??? Thats what ive been reading anyway, even if he doesnt get the Utd job he wont then be rolling up at WHL. Maybe he has had some discussions with Levy and feels that the Spurs job isnt right for him.
The more I think about it the more I want Pochettino, as the realistic choice. I love the football Southampton play, they've got an organised defence and while I don't think the results have gone their way, they've given the top teams a real game both home and away.
I honestly don't think the talent there is that great, but he's moulded a team that MAKES individual players look outstanding. I think he's decent, don't get me wrong, but seriously, Jay Rodriguez looks absolutely outstanding in that system and I'm not really sure that he is that great. Lambert is 32, I mean he looks outstanding too, but where has he been hiding all this time? I think they have a very good player in Lallana and an outstanding prospect in Shaw.
I think our squad looks very suited to the way he's got Southampton set up.
The front 3 for me would be sorted straight away: Rodriguez = Lamela, Lambert = Ade, Lallana = Eriksen. Already you can see there would be a step up in quality quite significantly to our squad, as we're comparing our players to the best area of their squad and IMO all ours are superior. So all those that say "Tim beat him twice" are being pretty ridiculous. Tim only just beat him twice with a lot of fortune going our way in both games, in which I thought Southampton looked the better side for long periods of both matches, but in which both matches our individual quality won through to win us the game.
I like the way he presents and holds himself too. I just have a good feeling about him being a great fit for us and he's proven to be able to mould a squad of young, promising players into an effective unit. I just think he'd be able to work well with Lamela, Eriksen, Chadli, Townsend, Kane, Bentaleb and make an attractive, effective team.
I honestly don't think the talent there is that great, but he's moulded a team that MAKES individual players look outstanding. I think he's decent, don't get me wrong, but seriously, Jay Rodriguez looks absolutely outstanding in that system and I'm not really sure that he is that great. Lambert is 32, I mean he looks outstanding too, but where has he been hiding all this time? I think they have a very good player in Lallana and an outstanding prospect in Shaw.
I think our squad looks very suited to the way he's got Southampton set up.
The front 3 for me would be sorted straight away: Rodriguez = Lamela, Lambert = Ade, Lallana = Eriksen. Already you can see there would be a step up in quality quite significantly to our squad, as we're comparing our players to the best area of their squad and IMO all ours are superior. So all those that say "Tim beat him twice" are being pretty ridiculous. Tim only just beat him twice with a lot of fortune going our way in both games, in which I thought Southampton looked the better side for long periods of both matches, but in which both matches our individual quality won through to win us the game.
I like the way he presents and holds himself too. I just have a good feeling about him being a great fit for us and he's proven to be able to mould a squad of young, promising players into an effective unit. I just think he'd be able to work well with Lamela, Eriksen, Chadli, Townsend, Kane, Bentaleb and make an attractive, effective team.
braineclipse
Willie Hall
Very good and extensive answer to my question, unsurprisingly there are some points I disagree on.
First off: De Boer. As I said before he has mentioned us by name in the past as a club he could see himself managing. I don't think he can have his pick of CL teams, he's highly rated I think, but still completely unproven outside of the Dutch league. He could get the Barca job, of course then we couldn't compete. But is it likely? I don't think so. They're the odd one out that could hire him out of the superclubs, but they'er also the team that could hire someone unproven in Europe or internally with no experience. Look at the top teams in the top leagues/CL. How often do they go for someone that's only proven in a smaller league? Not that often I would say. If he thinks it's getting to that time when he has to move he has to either be very lucky with his timing or he'll have to move to a club about our size I think. If he wants to wait it out for a truly top club I think he'll be waiting a long time. United are now looking for a new manager, with Mourinho, Pellegrini, Ancelotti, Pep, Klopp all (likely) unavailable or rejecting them and I don't think De Boer stands a chance in hell getting that job. His pick of CL teams? No, not at all from where I'm sitting.
I agree with your other "not going to happen" descriptions.
I think your generalized comparisons for Spalletti and Pochettino are overly simplistic. I don't know about Donadoni, Allegri I think is open for debate.
First off Pochettino has proven himself in England, something AVB never did. AVB succeeded with the best team in Portugal, one season, everything clicked. This is not a good description of Pochettino's career at all. Yes he's young, yes he's relatively unproven. But if we're just going to stop going for relatively young relatively unproven managers because once it didn't work with AVB that's way too defeatist for me at least. Particularly as you're comparing Pochettino to someone with way less experience as our other option in Sherwood. Stobart seems to get more things right than most journalists and thinks Pochettino is up there after LvG as one of our top options, I think that's likely to be right.
Similarly I think your Spalletti to Ramos comparison is just off. Even if it was right should we give up on all managers with a similar track record as one that failed in the past? I just don't see it. I think Spalletti's record is better, he's proven himself at clubs of various sizes (although often not the biggest) and he's proven himself capable of adapting to a different league and culture in Russia. Honestly I know less about Spalletti than the others mentioned here, but he seems to be highly rated by amongst others Norwegian scout and opinionater Tor Kristian Karlssen who worked under him for a period at Zenit - one of the few people with public opinions on football worth listening to imo. I also think Baldini worked with Spalletti at Roma and Spalletti publicly came out and said he wanted Baldini at Zenit after it became clear Baldini was done at Roma, before Baldini came to us.
None of the problems with anyone here come close to the problems listed with Sherwood for me. If we had someone proven already, like Redknapp, then perhaps you could argue that Pochettino's or De Boer's lack of experience is a problem. But compared to Sherwood?
I also reacted to your "path of least resistance" comment. Do you think that's how Levy has operated traditionally? I don't think so personally. The path of least resistance was to keep Redknapp and not go for AVB. The path of least resistance wasn't to tap up and go for Ramos whilst the popular Jol was still in charge. I don't think Levy cares much about the path of least resistance, he goes for the best looking destination and then he tries to force a path however hard it is. Sometimes he succeeds, sometimes he doesn't.
milo
Jack L. Jones
I agree, anyone who has been in the game for a while is likely to have some failure on their CV. You could also argue that a manager could learn more from a failure than succeeding at a small number of big clubs.
braineclipse
Willie Hall
I don't think it's likely at all.
City showed considerable patience with Mancini, they really haven't been like for example Chelsea in this regard.
Pellegrini was also the choice of the relatively newly appointed sporting director/technical team/whatevers. They're not going to look good sacking their choice after just one season.
Perhaps if Pep was available, perhaps even if Klopp was available. To get in the hunt for "maybe LvG" or "let's try Simeone, that might work". No, can't see it at all.
Source?
That's not how I've been reading the news stories at all. Most rumours I've seen is him wanting a job in England, that he would want to come to us if no better option is available and that the one better option that's likely to be open is United.
Strong reports that Levy and LvG had fairly long meetings in December/January, was reported amongst other places on the second captains podcast with what seemed like good sources. And after that LvG mentioned us by name again.
braineclipse
Willie Hall
I agree that the "he hasn't won against top teams" is a bit too simplistic. I think their performances have been good in several of the games where they didn't get results. They play much braver against top teams than many others do, including for example Everton under Moyes that just about ****ing never got a result anyway. Also worth noting that although it's been said (in this thread) that they haven't been beating better/top teams this season they did beat Emirates Marketing Project, Liverpool and Chelsea last season under Pochettino. If anything, last season, they struggled against smaller teams. Something Pochettino seems to have sorted out quite nicely.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
I think that's just Redknapp/Timmeh's pals in the red tops trying to embarrass us/Levy. Everything credible I've read suggests he and Levy made a gentleman's agreement in January, which they would finalise at the end of the season.
As he's seemingly not United's first choice, if they get any of the names higher up their list, there won't be another big EPL job coming up. If Ancelotti says yes, it's likely us or retirement for LVG.
braineclipse
Willie Hall
I don't think Ancelotti is likely at all, do you?
Are there any other names you think are higher up their list than LvG. Most suggestions I've seen haven't been likely or credible.
I
indianspur
Guest
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footb...-united-manager-louis-3442177?.............he hasnt got the Utd job yet but has already rejected the Spurs one. Lets say he doesnt get the Utd gig, what then, he goes back to Levy and says he is interested again???