Next England Manager Thread

[billyiddo]

It would be a disaster, no matter what anyone says the fact is that he has never been in a big job and there is a reason for that.

im not sure it matters whether or not a manager has been in a big job before - Chris Coleman was a flop in club management, having only been in charge of minnows but has done a fantastic job at international level with Wales.

the biggest club Joachim Low had managed prior to becoming Germany manager was Stuttgart, who are a middling Bundesliga side and he we won the World Cup, so it obviously never held him back

International football is littered with managers who have done well despite having done little at club level, so i can't see why this is cause for complaint with regards to Alladyce

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Who ever gets the job will have to look at what he's got to work with and see what he can get out of them. I don't think there are many players that were not selected for the squad who could improve the side greatly. We have no creative player, Barkley has potential, prior to the euros his club form was poor. We have no consistant goalie, lots of good but all with a big mistake in them. We have no centrebacks who know how to play the game at international level. We have no quick footed forwards who can get round a man and finish. So good luck trying to play attractive, entertaining football as the only entertainment will be for our opponents.

 

[Roy1983]

If SA is the best we've got we're in massive turmoil.

 

[Lemonade Money]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ce-facts-limerick-interview-england-job-video

 

[johnola]

not qualifying for the next two world cups would be fine with me.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

not qualifying for the next two world cups would be fine with me.

If that meant we were putting a plan in place to develop a team strategy and not throwing it out after a few setbacks I'd be fine with that. We can't go on stumbling along the way we have been.

 

[rxl]

I think SA is underrated. He's always achieved with what he's had to work with. He didn't stifle Jay Jay at Bolton so I don't think it's fair to say his tactics are negative or route one. He's got Defoe firing and he kept a terrible West Ham side up and created the platform that Bilic has built on. Bilic has taken them up another level, but he did have more cash to spend than SA.

I would be very interested to see what he can do with better talents, albeit in small periods of time with England. As a previous poster said look around, Hoddle and Redknapp are not going to get the job - what other names (especially English) jump out. Eddie Howe is the one I would love to see, but I don't think SA would be as bad as everyone is making out.

 

[thfcsteff]

Its the method he has had to use to get the best out of his teams. At Bolton he did this to keep them up, but when they settled and he added Jay Jay, Bobic, Djorkaeff, Campo, Heirro etc they played some good stuff, yeh they played hard but why not? Win the right to play in those times.

At West Ham he did the job, had pennies to spend and left, the same club now talk of spending 26m on a player.

I see a reference to McClaren-Esq flop but what do people want from all this either way? Capello had at the time one of the best CVs in the world and did what Roy Hodgson just done, SGE done exactly the same.

So who has a correct theory on who should manage England and if they will be a success? Because if Sam takes the job, qualifies easily and gets knocked out at the QFs he is sitting at the table of some pretty big hitting managers in England terms.

Sunderland did not have one of the worst three squads in the Premiership. His 'achievement' in keeping them up was the least he could've done. His highest PPG average was with the spammers and it was 1.39. He used SEVENTY EIGHT players at West Ham during his time there. Crumbs. He has a 36.3% win rate and a 36.8% loss rate over his career. He has won nothing. He has kept teams up.

Look, if that satisfies some people, great. I think it's a horrifically retrograde step, and would much much rather the FA tried to be progressive and line up a Howe or a Hughton alongside a great coaching staff. By the way, I was no fan of Crapello either. As for SGE, he got closer than any other manager since Robson.

Honestly, I'd rather Sanches-Flores than Allardyce! I suspect we will have to agree to disagree

 

[glorygloryeze]

@thfcsteff you raise some good and fair points re Allardyce.
But given who is available and that fact that, imo, it should be an Englishman who would you have take the job instead?

 

[parklane1]

not qualifying for the next two world cups would be fine with me.

Good idea as long as we stick to the long term plan of building a structure to be able to compete at the top. The problem would be that if its not done overnight ( and it can not be) how long do you think the press and a lot of the fans start bitching about it?

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Good idea as long as we stick to the long term plan of building a structure to be able to compete at the top. The problem would be that if its not done overnight ( and it can not be) how long do you think the press and a lot of the fans start bitching about it?

Unfortunately we live in a world of the quick fix, must have it now. Everywhere is run by a bloke who's only going to do the job for 3 to 5 years and he's only going to plan for short term. There is no vision or will to build success for someone else to gain the rewards.

 

[Raziel]

@thfcsteff you raise some good and fair points re Allardyce.
But given who is available and that fact that, imo, it should be an Englishman who would you have take the job instead?

why, what English manager has achieved anything in last 5-10 years?
- Number of teams in top 6 with an English manager in last five years?
- Number of teams playing CL football anywhere with an English manager in last five years?
- Number of Trophies won by an English manager in last five years?

what is the reasoning behind wanting an English manager?
- just xenophobia in disguise?
- England should be the training wheels for English Managers?
- England should be a PR exercise?

What if I said next season we are going to bench Dembele for Mason, bring back Dawson for Toby, play Winks instead of Eriksen just because .. well, their English ...

 

[Raziel]

Unfortunately we live in a world of the quick fix, must have it now. Everywhere is run by a bloke who's only going to do the job for 3 to 5 years and he's only going to plan for short term. There is no vision or will to build success for someone else to gain the rewards.

3-5 years is an eternity in modern sport, it should be more than enough time

- The only thing that takes longer than that is investment/strategy implementation at youth/grassroots level of game, which arguably shouldn't be the main task of the manager anyway (simply something they have input on)
- It shouldn't take more than 6 months to decide and communicate clearly a system/style you expect England to play consistently, implementation make take an additional 6 months
- It shouldn't take more than 6 months to come up with a core 16-20 players, with additional time/games focused on getting first 11.
- It shouldn't take more than 6 months to set a selection policy (and communicate it) that players will be picked on form (with appropriate level of experience), based on best team fit, and players that are/have been recently injured will not be selected (do this one thing and you probably improve England immediately)
- It shouldn't take more than 6 months to change the pace/tempo of the game England plays (#2 problem for me behind selection issues)

Klinsmann has had the US team for 5 years, with control at all levels and he has made the team worse, still doesn't know his best 11 (after 5 fudging years), and has consistently made bizarre selection decisions (not taking Donovan & Dempsey to tournaments), Martinez would still be a brick manager for Everton if he had stayed another 5 years, as would Hodgson if you gave him another 10 tournaments with England.

Managerial consistency being tied to success is a myth in the modern game, club and countries should be able to support a change every 3-5 years.

 

[Jordinho]

why, what English manager has achieved anything in last 5-10 years?
- Number of teams in top 6 with an English manager in last five years?
- Number of teams playing CL football anywhere with an English manager in last five years?
- Number of Trophies won by an English manager in last five years?

what is the reasoning behind wanting an English manager?
- just xenophobia in disguise?
- England should be the training wheels for English Managers?
- England should be a PR exercise?

What if I said next season we are going to bench Dembele for Mason, bring back Dawson for Toby, play Winks instead of Eriksen just because .. well, their English ...

Well, the whole idea of international football is to see which nation is the best. Xenophobia is one of its core values.

How many English players are regular starters for top 6 sides? Mid table obscurity is England's level.

 

[glorygloryeze]

why, what English manager has achieved anything in last 5-10 years?
- Number of teams in top 6 with an English manager in last five years?
- Number of teams playing CL football anywhere with an English manager in last five years?
- Number of Trophies won by an English manager in last five years?

what is the reasoning behind wanting an English manager?
- just xenophobia in disguise?
- England should be the training wheels for English Managers?
- England should be a PR exercise?

What if I said next season we are going to bench Dembele for Mason, bring back Dawson for Toby, play Winks instead of Eriksen just because .. well, their English ...

Erm, club football is club football, international football is international football.
You of course want to hire the best for the job in both cases, but what's the point in all international managers not being from the pool from the country being represented?
After all, take the 'top' football international teams and tell me
a) how many of them are being coached by managers NOT from said country
b) apart from in the case of England how long has it been since any of the 'big' countries were coached by a manager not from said country?

Also, England have tried the 'hire the best even if they are foreign' route and look where that has got them. If the pool of talent is poor anyway, there's not much point going outside the English pool, they may as well hire an Englishman to grow the squad capabilities over time anyway

 

[Raziel]

Erm, club football is club football, international football is international football.
You of course want to hire the best for the job in both cases, but what's the point in all international managers not being from the pool from the country being represented?
After all, take the 'top' football international teams and tell me
a) how many of them are being coached by managers NOT from said country
b) apart from in the case of England how long has it been since any of the 'big' countries were coached by a manager not from said country?

Also, England have tried the 'hire the best even if they are foreign' route and look where that has got them. If the pool of talent is poor anyway, there's not much point going outside the English pool, they may as well hire an Englishman to grow the squad capabilities over time anyway

I'll answer your question slightly differently

1. what makes England one of the "big" countries? it has a terrible tournament record for 60+ years
2. Those other countries have proven managers (if they chose them or not), my earlier point is England doesn't
3. no, England never hired the "best" SGE had a decent record but I have never heard of anyone thinking he was the best, and England hired him on the downside of his career (kind of like United and LVG)

A year ago, England could probably have got Mourinho, Wenger has publicly stated he wouldn't rule it out, fudge .. go after SAF for a couple of years, there are options that don't come down to has been English managers who at their very best achieved PL survival or a top 10 finish.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I'll answer your question slightly differently

1. what makes England one of the "big" countries? it has a terrible tournament record for 60+ years
2. Those other countries have proven managers (if they chose them or not), my earlier point is England doesn't
3. no, England never hired the "best" SGE had a decent record but I have never heard of anyone thinking he was the best, and England hired him on the downside of his career (kind of like United and LVG)

A year ago, England could probably have got Mourinho, Wenger has publicly stated he wouldn't rule it out, fudge .. go after SAF for a couple of years, there are options that don't come down to has been English managers who at their very best achieved PL survival or a top 10 finish.

Mourinho - you honestly think he'd give up club football for England of all teams?
Wenger - can also be classed in the Capello/LVG (i.e. has-been and on the way down) category surely?

The international role is one for a level-headed AND experienced coach who probably doesn't have young children (otherwise Eddie Howe would probably be a shoo-in).

In international terms England is nowhere as big as the press etc will have you believe BUT they ARE a big nation given the following, passion and money generated that relates to football. They are one of the privileged few who HAVE won an international tournament after all.
Before Luis Aragones won the Euros in 2008, were Spain one of the "big" teams?
I'll ask differently again: how many of the countries who have won any of the international tournaments in the past currently being managed by coaches not from said country?

 

[Rorschach]

Who the manager is is only one aspect of a larger problem with an underperforming English team, and not the biggest issue IMO. It boils down to the players and their ability compared to other similar sized nations and that is where England fall down. You need to start at the bottom and work up IMO. It has been said a thousand times but that is what is necessary.

 

[Raziel]

Mourinho - you honestly think he'd give up club football for England of all teams?
Wenger - can also be classed in the Capello/LVG (i.e. has-been and on the way down) category surely?

The international role is one for a level-headed AND experienced coach who probably doesn't have young children (otherwise Eddie Howe would probably be a shoo-in).

In international terms England is nowhere as big as the press etc will have you believe BUT they ARE a big nation given the following, passion and money generated that relates to football. They are one of the privileged few who HAVE won an international tournament after all.
Before Luis Aragones won the Euros in 2008, were Spain one of the "big" teams?
I'll ask differently again: how many of the countries who have won any of the international tournaments in the past currently being managed by coaches not from said country?

I was being a bit facetious with England not being a big team, but make no mistake, England does not get big team results. Those "other" big countries have all won titles (Spain, Italy, France, Germany) multiple times since England looked close to making a final, so they don't have the same issue.

But .. go ahead, do the same thing over and over and expect a different result.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I was being a bit facetious with England not being a big team, but make no mistake, England does not get big team results. Those "other" big countries have all won titles (Spain, Italy, France, Germany) multiple times since England looked close to making a final, so they don't have the same issue.

But .. go ahead, do the same thing over and over and expect a different result.

Ok, if you were in charge who would YOU appoint (irrespective of nationality)?