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New Stadium and Training Ground - Pg 104 Northumberland Park master plan

Spur of the moment said:
Except that's below the Emirates 60,361 (according to Wikipedia).

60,610 would do it.
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If the idea is regularly to attract crowds of over 60K, then we will need 61K seats. There will always be a few hundred ticket holders who don't turn up to games for whatever reason.

Certainly, if capacity was 60,061, we'd virtually never attain the 60K mark.
 
LoughtonSpurz said:
Cheers mate, have a look in the Covering Letter in the link below, scroll down and all will be revealed, it wont give you any specific information regarding any capacity increases or information about the listed buildings being removed, but I can assure you that they are the reasons for the future amendments from our current stadium and podium plans. ;)


See link below ......... Open link below then just below attachments, click on Covering Letter and scroll down.



http://www.planningservices.haringey.gov.uk/portal/servlets/ApplicationSearchServlet?PKID=252825

See below ........

fuxr1g.jpg
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Thanks again.
 
jimmyb said:
If the idea is regularly to attract crowds of over 60K, then we will need 61K seats. There will always be a few hundred ticket holders who don't turn up to games for whatever reason.

Certainly, if capacity was 60,061, we'd virtually never attain the 60K mark.
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Or do what Arsenal do and use the number of tickets sold as the official attendance.
 
Spur of the moment said:
Except that's below the Emirates 60,361 (according to Wikipedia).

60,610 would do it.
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I'd rather us choose our capacity based on what we think we can fill, rather than a silly dingdong waving competition with Arsenal. We will not sell out 60k except for the biggest games and 5/6k empty seats per week looks horrible. We need to strike a good balance between increasing the capacity to allow us to compete in the long run, while maintaining enough people on the season ticket waiting list to encourage people to still keep on buying season tickets to ensure their own attendance at big games.


Jordinho said:
Or do what Arsenal do and use the number of tickets sold as the official attendance.
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What's wrong with that? The money is still in the bank either way, they're the ones who chose to not turn up.
 
Hootnow said:
What's wrong with that? The money is still in the bank either way, they're the ones who chose to not turn up.
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It's becoming fairly common practice in the top leagues, but it shouldn't go down as the number of people that attended the match. Just call it tickets sold.
 
Hootnow said:
I'd rather us choose our capacity based on what we think we can fill, rather than a silly dingdong waving competition with Arsenal. We will not sell out 60k except for the biggest games and 5/6k empty seats per week looks horrible. We need to strike a good balance between increasing the capacity to allow us to compete in the long run, while maintaining enough people on the season ticket waiting list to encourage people to still keep on buying season tickets to ensure their own attendance at big games.




What's wrong with that? The money is still in the bank either way, they're the ones who chose to not turn up.
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Sorry mate but your argument makes no sense to be honest about it, so you are suggesting that Spurs spend over ?ú400m on a stadium that is still not big enough for Spurs fans, and after spending such a huge amount of money we will end up with a a stadium that still leave fans on the season ticket waiting list, sorry but that is just wrong, and leaves no room for Spurs to grow as a club if they are successful in future years. :-k

It would make more sense to build a slightly bigger stadium than might be needed if anything, than too build one that is already too small when it has just opened, Spurs have the dearest ticket prices along with Arsenal, there is a huge chunk of our fan base that is currently "priced out" of attending our games due to our high prices, Spurs could easily lower their prices a little if they were not selling out to attract more fans.

Spurs have getting on for 40,000 fans on their season ticket waiting list, and believe me as soon as the stadium build commences, the interest from Spurs fans fans will increase greatly, as will the season ticket waiting list.
 
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I have many friends who buy a season ticket effectively to ensure that they can go to the big games, vs Arsenal and Chelsea especially. When I had a season ticket, I had similar motivations. If there are always seats available, even for the biggest games, people are less inclined to go for season tickets.

The original plan for 56K contained plans for a potential expansion to 60K+ did it not? If we so chose.

I doubt Levy and co will be reducing prices too much tbh.

The season ticket waiting list has unsurprisingly shot up as we have become a better team. It will shoot back down as we will likely have to scale back spending for a bit after building the stadium and inevitably see on pitch performance worsen.
 
Hootnow said:
I'd rather us choose our capacity based on what we think we can fill, rather than a silly dingdong waving competition with Arsenal. We will not sell out 60k except for the biggest games and 5/6k empty seats per week looks horrible. We need to strike a good balance between increasing the capacity to allow us to compete in the long run, while maintaining enough people on the season ticket waiting list to encourage people to still keep on buying season tickets to ensure their own attendance at big games.




What's wrong with that? The money is still in the bank either way, they're the ones who chose to not turn up.
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Provided we continue to compete in or around the top-four my guess is we'll have no trouble filling the stadium every game. But if we drop out of the top six then maybe we'll struggle to fill even a 56K stadium some games, so we might as well go for the full monty.
 
Hootnow said:
I have many friends who buy a season ticket effectively to ensure that they can go to the big games, vs Arsenal and Chelsea especially. When I had a season ticket, I had similar motivations. If there are always seats available, even for the biggest games, people are less inclined to go for season tickets.

The original plan for 56K contained plans for a potential expansion to 60K+ did it not? If we so chose.

I doubt Levy and co will be reducing prices too much tbh.

The season ticket waiting list has unsurprisingly shot up as we have become a better team. It will shoot back down as we will likely have to scale back spending for a bit after building the stadium and inevitably see on pitch performance worsen.
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Firstly the season ticket waiting list didn't suddenly shoot up as Spurs become a better team, it was already 20,000 strong as far back as June 2006, it has in fact grown steadily year on year, the only surge was during last years Champions League season.


Also just as was the case with Arsenal, there will be a huge increase in demand for season tickets, as soon as the stadium is actually physically being built, and attendances could as with every other club rise or fall depending on the clubs on the pitch performances, but they wont "shoot down" as you suggest they will, just as they didn't when a couple of years back when Spurs finished 11th and 8th after finishing 5th the previous Two seasons, in fact our season ticket waiting list GREW during those Two 11th and 8th placed seasons.
 
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In June 2006, we'd just finished 5th and were a dodgy lasagna away from finishing in the CL places. It surged during the CL season and I believe has gone down again this season without it.

Can I ask where you're getting your waiting list stats btw?

I don't think it will shoot down, its not like we're going to have 20k turning out in the 2015/2016 season. But if our performances on the pitch become worse in the short term, which there's a chance of considering how much we're going to have to spend on it, we will not fill 60k. And not because our fanbase is brick. I am on the season ticket waiting list (well, I'm not really, I'm a member) but I have absolutely no intention of buying a season ticket again. Either at whl or the new stadium. Yet officially, I am one of the fans apparently queuing up to get a season ticket.

I'd just prefer to have a stadium that allows us to bring in a lot more money, that allows more of our fans watch the mighty Spurs but which isn't empty on a regular basis and which gives us scope to easily and cheaply expand further in the future if we're regularly selling out the stadium.
 
I'm sure the club will be looking to get the right balance between increasing capacity, making sure there's still demand for tickets and making sure that we sell out as many matches as possible.

If it's a choice between 56K that's full every single week, of 66K that has 7-8K empty seats for half the matches, I'd rather go with 56K. Couldn't care less what the capacity is in comparison for Arsenal, bigger or smaller, let's do what's best for us.
 
True, and I do hope it's as big as possible so as many Spurs fans as possible can get to games (and so I can get a season ticket!!!) but if it was a hypothetical straight choice between bigger but often with empty seats or smaller but nearly always a sell out, I'd go with the latter.

I've always thought that if we did increase the capacity from the proposed 56,250 we should do things like offering cheap seats which people local to Tottenham had priority for, try and help the local community get more out of the club. I'm sure there's lots of things like that that every club could do to try and help those who have been priced out of the game.
 
Hootnow said:
In June 2006, we'd just finished 5th and were a dodgy lasagna away from finishing in the CL places. It surged during the CL season and I believe has gone down again this season without it.

Can I ask where you're getting your waiting list stats btw?

I don't think it will shoot down, its not like we're going to have 20k turning out in the 2015/2016 season. But if our performances on the pitch become worse in the short term, which there's a chance of considering how much we're going to have to spend on it, we will not fill 60k. And not because our fanbase is brick. I am on the season ticket waiting list (well, I'm not really, I'm a member) but I have absolutely no intention of buying a season ticket again. Either at whl or the new stadium. Yet officially, I am one of the fans apparently queuing up to get a season ticket.

I'd just prefer to have a stadium that allows us to bring in a lot more money, that allows more of our fans watch the mighty Spurs but which isn't empty on a regular basis and which gives us scope to easily and cheaply expand further in the future if we're regularly selling out the stadium.
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Does anyone know how many the Arse had on their w/l before they started building the Emirates? I doubt it was as many as the 22,000 they needed anyway. Don't forget there's bound to be a lot more interest once the stadium begins to emerge, plus no doubt more creative and aggressive selling strategies.

My guess is we'll have trouble fitting them all in for the first three or four years. After that it'll be down to how well the team is performing.
 
Hootnow said:
In June 2006, we'd just finished 5th and were a dodgy lasagna away from finishing in the CL places. It surged during the CL season and I believe has gone down again this season without it.

Can I ask where you're getting your waiting list stats btw?

I don't think it will shoot down, its not like we're going to have 20k turning out in the 2015/2016 season. But if our performances on the pitch become worse in the short term, which there's a chance of considering how much we're going to have to spend on it, we will not fill 60k. And not because our fanbase is brick. I am on the season ticket waiting list (well, I'm not really, I'm a member) but I have absolutely no intention of buying a season ticket again. Either at whl or the new stadium. Yet officially, I am one of the fans apparently queuing up to get a season ticket.

I'd just prefer to have a stadium that allows us to bring in a lot more money, that allows more of our fans watch the mighty Spurs but which isn't empty on a regular basis and which gives us scope to easily and cheaply expand further in the future if we're regularly selling out the stadium.
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The waiting list didn't suddenly appear in 2006 either after the near Champions League season, nobody can guarantee what will happen to our future attendances that is obvious, and yes there will be lots of other fans like you on the waiting list that wont take up a season ticket even if they are offered the chance to.

But if there are say 50,000 on that waiting list by the time the stadium opens and there more than likely will be that many by then, at least half will take up the offer of buying a season ticket, Tottenham's fan base is growing rapidly at the moment both in the UK and globally, Joe Lewis who owns 70% of ENIC is worth getting on for ?ú3 billion, and Daniel Levy who owns 30% of ENIC are not fools, they would not be investing over ?ú400m on a new stadium if they were not sure that the demand is there to fill it believe me.

As well as the above, as already mentioned there are lots of our fans that are currently unable to buy match day or season tickets at Spurs due to our very high prices, Spurs could easily sell out a big stadium if they priced the tickets at a more sensible level, the sheer amount of fans that we have on our current season ticket waiting list proves that our fan base is much bigger than most other clubs, otherwise they would all be charging what we do, none of the Northen clubs could fill their stadiums if they tried charging our prices, just like West Ham couldn't, hence the reason West Ham's most expensive season ticket is much lower than half of our equivalant ones.

I get my season ticket stats directly from the ticket office, from a lady called Kay, and directly from our official site see below ...... the last time I asked about a month ago it was heading for 40,000 and growing.


https://tottenhamhotspur.com/spurs/News/Archive/news_2006_6_2326.page
 
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EJG said:
True, and I do hope it's as big as possible so as many Spurs fans as possible can get to games (and so I can get a season ticket!!!) but if it was a hypothetical straight choice between bigger but often with empty seats or smaller but nearly always a sell out, I'd go with the latter.

I've always thought that if we did increase the capacity from the proposed 56,250 we should do things like offering cheap seats which people local to Tottenham had priority for, try and help the local community get more out of the club. I'm sure there's lots of things like that that every club could do to try and help those who have been priced out of the game.
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Theres a reason you put the hypothetical caveat in there! Under which circumstance I would agree.

Not so likely though IMO.

Cheaper tickets, offers to charity, community/social events... All can ensure bums on seats
 
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