New DoF?

[milo]

Re: Baldini as new DoF?

Indian - Baldini won't be DOF - more like advisor / chief scout anyway

Where do you draw that conclusion from?

 

[Bullet]

Re: Baldini as new DoF?

Where do you draw that conclusion from?

The article

 

[ArcspacE]

Re: Baldini as new DoF?

Where do you draw that conclusion from?

Goal articles on Spurs as already mentioned earlier are fairly accurate

Besides that - from

- the fact that is exactly what he was under Capello
- the fact we cleared the decks from Broomfield
- the unlikely scenario of Levy imposing a DoF after he's hired the manager

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Baldini as new DoF?

A stronger scouting/recruiting network would be good.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: Baldini as new DoF?

very few coaches/managers want to work with a DoF no matter what they say publicly

this is Levy messing around again. He will bring in someone like Baldini, who it seems he has wanted for years if rumours are true,and Baldini will want to get his mate Capello a job at WHL and will 'hinder' AVB rather than help until AVB is ousted

why appoint AVB, a young coach and supposedly hired for the long term, if he isnt given the power to make his own decisions especially regarding transfers so he can mould the playing staff his own way

](*,)

Couldn't agree more.

Why are people on here so in love with DoF structure? Didn't work the last time we had one.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Baldini as new DoF?

as Moonlit said, Levy is doing things the wrong way round. Hire a DoF, then let the DoF have a big say on who he wants to work with as head coach/manager if that is actually what he wants as a structure at the club. I dont think a Dof position works well in English football

Imo, yes its only my opinion, i cant see AVB agreeing to working alongside a big hitter like Baldini. I see AVB wanting to restructure the scouting system at Spurs, but i think he will want lesser known names acting as scouts who report to him and then he makes the final decision on who he wants to buy and gives the list to Levy. A DoF will just get in the way of all that. Imo

Depends who answers to who, DoF hasn't been used in the article, nor is it Baldini's job at Roma.

If the final decision is still with AVB (and Levy) then I suppose you could argue that it isn't a DoF we're (supposedly) looking at, either way getting in someone like Baldini in a head scout type role seems like a great idea.

I just find the idea that Levy would do something to go behind AVB's back just months after signing him ridiculous and frankly when people seem to jump to that conclusion based on little evidence I don't understand what's going on.

 

[Bullet]

Re: Baldini as new DoF?

GutterBoy used 'DoF' in the thread title to stir things up

But a stronger scouting network sounds good.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Baldini as new DoF?

Couldn't agree more.

Why are people on here so in love with DoF structure? Didn't work the last time we had one.

Under the DoF structure we brought in some of the best players we've seen at the club in the last 15 years and many more very good players. Those players were the foundation to the good things that have happened at the club in recent years.

Having someone who is in charge of long term thinking and bringing in players that will be good 3-5 years down the line seems like a great idea to me. Let the manager have a say in that too, but let him focus on what's going on right now and who we should bring in to strengthen the team right now. Let the DoF (or whatever you call him) be a resource to the manager when he is looking for players too.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: Baldini as new DoF?

Under the DoF structure we brought in some of the best players we've seen at the club in the last 15 years and many more very good players. Those players were the foundation to the good things that have happened at the club in recent years.

Having someone who is in charge of long term thinking and bringing in players that will be good 3-5 years down the line seems like a great idea to me. Let the manager have a say in that too, but let him focus on what's going on right now and who we should bring in to strengthen the team right now. Let the DoF (or whatever you call him) be a resource to the manager when he is looking for players too.

1. Managers think short term on the whole because they have to deliver quickly, especially these days when manager are not given the luxury of time. DoF's think long term.

2. It was the previous manager who got the best out of those players. Most of them were flops under Ramos.

3. We've seen not one but two Spurs managers being undermined by a DoF. There was a power struggle with Santini and Arnesen. Jol reportedly wanted certain players like Petrov, but was denied. Surely the manager should have the final say in the players HE manages?

4. Gutterboy is just impressed by anything foreign i.e. foreign coaches, DoF's.

5. How many teams in the PL have a DoF? Every team has scouts. But apart from Di Matteo, how many managers don't have the final say when it comes to transfers? My big criticism of Levy is he doesn't know football as much as he knows business, this ties into that view.

Edit: I'd be happier at least with Baldini than with Commolli, that clown can stay the fudge away!

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Re: Baldini as new DoF?

Under the DoF structure we brought in some of the best players we've seen at the club in the last 15 years and many more very good players. Those players were the foundation to the good things that have happened at the club in recent years.

Having someone who is in charge of long term thinking and bringing in players that will be good 3-5 years down the line seems like a great idea to me. Let the manager have a say in that too, but let him focus on what's going on right now and who we should bring in to strengthen the team right now. Let the DoF (or whatever you call him) be a resource to the manager when he is looking for players too.

Considering the system was in place for about 11 years of that I can't say I am too surprised :lol:

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Re: Baldini as new DoF?

1. Managers think short term on the whole because they have to deliver quickly, especially these days when manager are not given the luxury of time. DoF's think long term.

2. It was the previous manager who got the best out of those players. Most of them were flops under Ramos.

3. We've seen not one but two Spurs managers being undermined by a DoF. There was a power struggle with Santini and Arnesen. Jol reportedly wanted certain players like Petrov, but was denied. Surely the manager should have the final say in the players HE manages?

4. Gutterboy is just impressed by anything foreign i.e. foreign coaches, DoF's.

5. How many teams in the PL have a DoF? Every team has scouts. But apart from Di Matteo, how many managers don't have the final say when it comes to transfers? My big criticism of Levy is he doesn't know football as much as he knows business, this ties into that view.

Edit: I'd be happier at least with Baldini than with Commolli, that clown can stay the fudge away!

Four actually! Pleat/Graham. Pleat/Hoddle. Arnesen/Santini. Comolli/Jol.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Baldini as new DoF?

Couldn't agree more.

Why are people on here so in love with DoF structure? Didn't work the last time we had one.

IIRC it is exactly what raised us up from c.10th-12th place finishes (1994-2004), to c.4th-5th place finishes (since 2004).

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: Baldini as new DoF?

IIRC it is exactly what raised us up from c.10th-12th place finishes (1994-2004), to c.4th-5th place finishes (since 2004).

So it gets all of the credit for the good seasons, and none of the blame for being rock bottom of the league and other poor seasons?

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Baldini as new DoF?

DoF hasn't been used in the article

'Head of recruitment'. 'Continental structure'. 'Super-scout'. 'Sporting Director'. It's all the same, just that DoF seems a mistrusted phrase.

4. Gutterboy is just impressed by anything foreign i.e. foreign coaches, DoF's.

I'm impressed by anyone who can discover and recruit players like Higuain, whether they are from Reggello or Reading.

So it gets all of the credit for the good seasons, and none of the blame for being rock bottom of the league and other poor seasons?

It was a pretty monumental move, to go from perenial mid-table to consistent top 5. No one can deny the step change that started in summer 2004 with the appointment of Arnesen.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: Baldini as new DoF?

'Head of recruitment'. 'Continental structure'. 'Super-scout'. 'Sporting Director'. It's all the same, just that DoF seems a mistrusted phrase.




I'm impressed by anyone who can discover and recruit players like Higuain, whether they are from Reggello or Reading.




It was a pretty monumental move, to go from perenial mid-table to consistent top 5. No one can deny the step change that started in summer 2004 with the appointment of Arnesen.

More to do with Jol than Arnesen IMO.

So what is your take on the clashes between DoF and manager that has happened on 4 occasions as MLK pointed out?

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Baldini as new DoF?

1. Managers think short term on the whole because they have to deliver quickly, especially these days when manager are not given the luxury of time. DoF's think long term.

2. It was the previous manager who got the best out of those players. Most of them were flops under Ramos.

3. We've seen not one but two Spurs managers being undermined by a DoF. There was a power struggle with Santini and Arnesen. Jol reportedly wanted certain players like Petrov, but was denied. Surely the manager should have the final say in the players HE manages?

4. Gutterboy is just impressed by anything foreign i.e. foreign coaches, DoF's.

5. How many teams in the PL have a DoF? Every team has scouts. But apart from Di Matteo, how many managers don't have the final say when it comes to transfers? My big criticism of Levy is he doesn't know football as much as he knows business, this ties into that view.

Edit: I'd be happier at least with Baldini than with Commolli, that clown can stay the fudge away!

1. Yes, that is to be expected. All the more reason to have someone with both the responsibility for the long term thinking and the financial resources to do something about it. Someone who doesn't have to worry about the short term.

2. Yes, and that same manager said that 90% of football was down to the players or something to that effect. Those players did start performing under him, kinda confirming that those players brought in were good, solid purchases.

3. Back to who answers to who, I would be very happy to see Baldini (or someone like him) be brought in, but have him answer to AVB on final decisions and especially on first team matters.

4. I'm not Gutterboy, not really sure what I'm supposed to say here.

5. I don't understand what is different about football in England compared to other countries that should somehow make systems that work in other countries incompatible with England. Loads of foreign managers succeeding, plenty of foreign players and a bunch of foreign owners. What is it about England and the Premier League that makes it incompatible with a DoF setup?

I agree that Levy doesn't know as much about football as he knows about business, I'm quite sure he would admit to that as well. There's a reason he's not at the training ground doing passing drills with the players. I do think Arnesen was important in this respect, he seemed to bring some important fundamentals about transfer strategy and planning that Levy seemed to take to. He does seem a fan of making these decisions in a committee type way, him and a DoF and a manager coming to an agreement back under Arnesen and Comolli. Possibly him and Harry along with the head scout under Redknapp.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Baldini as new DoF?

Considering the system was in place for about 11 years of that I can't say I am too surprised :lol:

Do you think Pleat, Arnesen and Comolli all had the same role at the club?

Although Pleat had the DoF name I thought his role was a bit different and that there was a clear change in setup when Arnesen came in, could be wrong though.

 

[jts1882]

Re: Baldini as new DoF?

Do you think Pleat, Arnesen and Comolli all had the same role at the club?

Although Pleat had the DoF name I thought his role was a bit different and that there was a clear change in setup when Arnesen came in, could be wrong though.

That's the key. DoF is used to cover a variety of different setups which aren't the same.

Pleat and his managers both seemed to report to Levy, I didn't get the impression that the managers reported to Pleat. But it wasn't entirely clear who had final responsibility for what.

With Arnsen there was a distinct change in that he appointed the manager and the manager reported to him. He might have accepted a "high profile" manager temporarily while engineering for his own man, but after easing Santini out he had the man he wanted. Jol was Arnsen's choice and it looked like it was working. Its a shame Arnsen went to Chelsea (and wasted his talent, albeit in exchange for lots of cash) as the Arnsen-Jol partnership could have worked very well.

When Comolli came in he at least nominally had the same role but Jol's title changed when he got a new contract, so I assume the responsibilities also changed or got more confused. Clearly Comolli didn't deliver what Jol needed most when he needed it, a holding midfielder and left-sided player (ironic given we ended up with BAE, Bale and Modric from Comolli's period), but he did bring in some players who eventually proved themselves. The relationship between Jol andComolli wasn't effective but I think it was partly due to confused lines of responsibility.

The article says Baldini is AVB's choice for whatever role is being proposed. That should be a positive sign for them being able to work together in the respective roles.

 

[milo]

Re: Baldini as new DoF?

If we were looking to bring in a DoF we should have tried to get Ashworth from WBA before the FA poached him. He's done a fantastic job there and doesn't seek attention.

 

[Hootnow]

Re: Baldini as new DoF?

very few coaches/managers want to work with a DoF no matter what they say publicly

this is Levy messing around again. He will bring in someone like Baldini, who it seems he has wanted for years if rumours are true,and Baldini will want to get his mate Capello a job at WHL and will 'hinder' AVB rather than help until AVB is ousted

why appoint AVB, a young coach and supposedly hired for the long term, if he isnt given the power to make his own decisions especially regarding transfers so he can mould the playing staff his own way

](*,)

Really? Don't most teams in continental Europe have a DoF? In fact, has AVB ever worked without one?

However, I think, despite what any of us may think about the DoF system hiring him after hiring the manager is probably not the best idea.