Murdered by my boyfriend

[dawaxman]

Did anybody see this programme on BBC the other night? It was pretty disturbing

I didn't want to put this in the TV thread as I was more interested in seeing people's views on domestic violence. I was shocked to learn of some of the statistics around domestic violence. Apparently 1 in 4 women are affected by it at some point in their lives. This is absolutely disgusting, and I simply cannot understand what goes through the mind of a human who thinks it is OK to pummel (physically or mentally) the person that they live with and share a family with. (I am not saying it's OK to do this to strangers, I just want to discuss the act of doing it to 'loved' ones....)

Why would a person think they can get away with it? If they attacked a stranger on the street, they'd go to prison, but because it's someone they live with, they can scare them into not reporting them. It is a horrible vicious cycle....

It is a terrible society that we live in, that a woman needs to move home, move away from all of their nearest and dearest to escape the threat of this repulsive human who thinks that abuse of their partner is acceptable

 

[RomanzoCriminale]

They think they can get away with it because they're allowed to get away with it........

Its a bit like what happened with your wife, the stalking, hope you don't mind me bringing that up, but why did he continue, why was he allowed to? Because we're too soft in this country........ It beggars belief that the Liberals in this country think we should give rapers, peados, murderers, stalkers, scum that mug the old etc another chance. Most victims don't get another chance, or are usually scarred for life.

Those that don't want to conform, live like decent folk should be taken out of our society to let the rest of us live in peace. Build a big wall around the south poll then parachute them all in. I might even watch tv if they put cameras in there have a show a bit like the Hunger Games ....... Under 16? send them to Africa or wherever to work with charities, get them grounded, make them realise the worlds not just about them and impressing their bling pals.

In my view its only going to get worse, Blairs Labour created a vile underclass in this country that don't respect anything or anyone.

Waiting for the Liberals/Left to start name calling...... I need TP for my bunghole !

 

[dawaxman]

They think they can get away with it because they're allowed to get away with it........

Its a bit like what happened with your wife, the stalking, hope you don't mind me bringing that up, but why did he continue, why was he allowed to? Because we're too soft in this country........ It beggars belief that the Liberals in this country think we should give rapers, peados, murderers, stalkers, scum that mug the old etc another chance. Most victims don't get another chance, or are usually scarred for life.

Those that don't want to conform, live like decent folk should be taken out of our society to let the rest of us live in peace. Build a big wall around the south poll then parachute them all in. I might even watch tv if they put cameras in there have a show a bit like the Hunger Games ....... Under 16? send them to Africa or wherever to work with charities, get them grounded, make them realise the worlds not just about them and impressing their bling pals.

In my view its only going to get worse, Blairs Labour created a vile underclass in this country that don't respect anything or anyone.

Waiting for the Liberals/Left to start name calling...... I need TP for my bunghole !

Whilst I agree with a lot of what you have said, I don't think these criminals that you mentioned are all part of the underclass - some are upstanding members of society, and then behind closed doors...........

Have you seen the film Tyrannosaur with Olivia Coleman and Peter Mullan?

 

[RomanzoCriminale]

Whilst I agree with a lot of what you have said, I don't think these criminals that you mentioned are all part of the underclass - some are upstanding members of society, and then behind closed doors...........

Have you seen the film Tyrannosaur with Olivia Coleman and Peter Mullan?

Sorry when i say underclass i should be clear i don't mean class as in Lower/Middle/Upper Class. I've already stated on here that my parents were working class and made something of themselves, i know where i'm from, the difference is the old working class ethos was to better yourself, work hard, dress well, enjoy life..... isn't that what the middle classes were borne of?

I mean there's a section of society that don't give a ****, their kids run feral, they don't abide by our way of life. Crime is just a word to them, they don't care who they hurt.

I haven't seen that film, i just read a brief synopsis on IMDB, i will watch it with interest.

What i will say is that to anyone who defends the people that carry out the crimes i mentioned from a Liberal slant, i bet would feel differently if it happened to one of your own.

 

[dawaxman]

Sorry when i say underclass i should be clear i don't mean class as in Lower/Middle/Upper Class. I've already stated on here that my parents were working class and made something of themselves, i know where i'm from, the difference is the old working class ethos was to better yourself, work hard, dress well, enjoy life..... isn't that what the middle classes were borne of?

I mean there's a section of society that don't give a ****, their kids run feral, they don't abide by our way of life. Crime is just a word to them, they don't care who they hurt.

I haven't seen that film, i just read a brief synopsis on IMDB, i will watch it with interest.

What i will say is that to anyone who defends the people that carry out the crimes i mentioned from a Liberal slant, i bet would feel differently if it happened to one of your own.

Not to mention this country's stance on human rights...........

 

[NickTB]

Watch Nil by mouth. I still struggle to watch the whole thing through. It's a mirror on my younger years

 

[braineclipse]

I haven't seen the BBC documentary mentioned by the OP, but I did watch a rather interesting TED talk that I think is relevant to this.

[video=youtube;V1yW5IsnSjo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1yW5IsnSjo[/video]

I agree with dawaxman that this is something that goes on to some degree in all parts of society.

They think they can get away with it because they're allowed to get away with it........

Its a bit like what happened with your wife, the stalking, hope you don't mind me bringing that up, but why did he continue, why was he allowed to? Because we're too soft in this country........ It beggars belief that the Liberals in this country think we should give rapers, peados, murderers, stalkers, scum that mug the old etc another chance. Most victims don't get another chance, or are usually scarred for life.

Those that don't want to conform, live like decent folk should be taken out of our society to let the rest of us live in peace. Build a big wall around the south poll then parachute them all in. I might even watch tv if they put cameras in there have a show a bit like the Hunger Games ....... Under 16? send them to Africa or wherever to work with charities, get them grounded, make them realise the worlds not just about them and impressing their bling pals.

In my view its only going to get worse, Blairs Labour created a vile underclass in this country that don't respect anything or anyone.

Waiting for the Liberals/Left to start name calling...... I need TP for my bunghole !

Do you have some reason and evidence behind this? Are there many good examples of societies/countries where the punishment is made harsher and crime decreases in your opinion?

What exactly do you mean by not giving stalkers and people that mug the old another chance?

 

[Craig_J]

They think they can get away with it because they're allowed to get away with it........

Its a bit like what happened with your wife, the stalking, hope you don't mind me bringing that up, but why did he continue, why was he allowed to? Because we're too soft in this country........ It beggars belief that the Liberals in this country think we should give rapers, peados, murderers, stalkers, scum that mug the old etc another chance. Most victims don't get another chance, or are usually scarred for life.

Those that don't want to conform, live like decent folk should be taken out of our society to let the rest of us live in peace. Build a big wall around the south poll then parachute them all in. I might even watch tv if they put cameras in there have a show a bit like the Hunger Games ....... Under 16? send them to Africa or wherever to work with charities, get them grounded, make them realise the worlds not just about them and impressing their bling pals.

In my view its only going to get worse, Blairs Labour created a vile underclass in this country that don't respect anything or anyone.

Waiting for the Liberals/Left to start name calling...... I need TP for my bunghole !

How old are you out of interest? I'm 20 and fed up of hearing the generation that created mine that **** of ours. If you don't like it maybe you should have made different changes in your lifetime! And to call someone raised in a broken home by the generation before us with the generation before us raising them of benefits doesn't mean they should be called an 'underclass'.

Anyhow, like braineclpse says there's no evidence that harsher punishments mean a reduction in crime. Your coming from some flawed old school revengeist perspective. In the USA the states which have the death penalty for murder have some of the highest murder rates. It quite simply hasn't worked, doesn't work and will NEVER work.


But yes the domestic violence rates are shockingly high. Even more shocking is the fact that 1 out of 20 women have been sexually assaulted.

 

[Superted]

Anyhow, like braineclpse says there's no evidence that harsher punishments mean a reduction in crime. Your coming from some flawed old school revengeist perspective. In the USA the states which have the death penalty for murder have some of the highest murder rates. It quite simply hasn't worked, doesn't work and will NEVER work.

Depends whether you think punishment should be a deterrent or retribution. I say retribution. I'd gladly live in a society where paedos, kid abusers, rapists and scummy wife beaters have their balls cut off.

Because **** them, that's why.

 

[braineclipse]

Depends whether you think punishment should be a deterrent or retribution. I say retribution. I'd gladly live in a society where paedos, kid abusers, rapists and scummy wife beaters have their balls cut off.

Because **** them, that's why.

That's not the argument RC put forward though, he's arguing that it's better for society.

I disagree about wanting a revenge based justice system on a lot of levels, primarily because I think it causes more human suffering - and not just for the perpetrators being punished. But that's all from a societal standpoint, if you just want retribution that's not really the issue at hand.

Seeing punishment only as a deterrent or retribution is a bit flawed I think as it ignores the rehabilitation factor.

 

[Craig_J]

Depends whether you think punishment should be a deterrent or retribution. I say retribution. I'd gladly live in a society where paedos, kid abusers, rapists and scummy wife beaters have their balls cut off.

Because **** them, that's why.

Yep, I'm sure the sort of people who don't give a **** what happens to them, what the consequences are or what people think about them would be quaking in their boots.

That's not the argument RC put forward though, he's arguing that it's better for society.

I disagree about wanting a revenge based justice system on a lot of levels, primarily because I think it causes more human suffering - and not just for the perpetrators being punished. But that's all from a societal standpoint, if you just want retribution that's not really the issue at hand.

Seeing punishment only as a deterrent or retribution is a bit flawed I think as it ignores the rehabilitation factor.

You actually bring up a good point about whether certain individuals can be rehabilitated.

I've always said that I hope peadophillia IS a choice because at least that means it can be controlled to a certain extent or punished. If it isn't a choice and is some kind of neurological problem then that makes it harder to contain.

If I remember rightly there was a man who had a brain tumor and he went to the doctors very distressed and said he had been having sexual thoughts about children which was when they found out he had a brain tumor. After having it removed he went back to normality again. Till a few years later he went back with the same issue, doctors looked into it and found another tumour forming, after the removal he was back to normal again. This suggests it IS neurological which is a nightmare come true for me...

 

[scaramanga]

That's not the argument RC put forward though, he's arguing that it's better for society.

I disagree about wanting a revenge based justice system on a lot of levels, primarily because I think it causes more human suffering - and not just for the perpetrators being punished. But that's all from a societal standpoint, if you just want retribution that's not really the issue at hand.

Seeing punishment only as a deterrent or retribution is a bit flawed I think as it ignores the rehabilitation factor.

What if rehabilitation doesn't work?

Obviously it's not always the case, but this country is littered with people who are straight back into prison on another (very short term) burglary or car theft charge the moment they're out of prison. Surely it's better for society if they're just not able to do that again?

Of course, it doesn't help when the number of spaces available in UK prisons determines the length of sentences - that's nothing but a recipe for disaster.

Edit:

I'm not arguing for the death penalty here unless it could be implemented in a way that made it cheaper than life without parole. Otherwise I'm equally happy with life without parole - it has the same benefits.

 

[braineclipse]

You actually bring up a good point about whether certain individuals can be rehabilitated.

I've always said that I hope peadophillia IS a choice because at least that means it can be controlled to a certain extent or punished. If it isn't a choice and is some kind of neurological problem then that makes it harder to contain.

If I remember rightly there was a man who had a brain tumor and he went to the doctors very distressed and said he had been having sexual thoughts about children which was when they found out he had a brain tumor. After having it removed he went back to normality again. Till a few years later he went back with the same issue, doctors looked into it and found another tumour forming, after the removal he was back to normal again. This suggests it IS neurological which is a nightmare come true for me...

This is a very interesting discussion, although somewhat off topic when talking about what should be done to wife beaters and other scumbags.

Biology/neurology clearly plays a role, as illustrated by the example you bring up. But (as always) I do think there's a combination of factors, nature and nurture combining.

If someone can't be rehabilitated does it matter if it's neurological or not?

What if rehabilitation doesn't work?

Obviously it's not always the case, but this country is littered with people who are straight back into prison on another (very short term) burglary or car theft charge the moment they're out of prison. Surely it's better for society if they're just not able to do that again?

Of course, it doesn't help when the number of spaces available in UK prisons determines the length of sentences - that's nothing but a recipe for disaster.

Ignoring pedophilia, murder and rape here. Those are the very extreme situations and not what I think you're getting at in your post?

Would you agree that we instead say that those people have not been successfully rehabilitated, rather than that rehabilitation doesn't work? With your wording we're excluding a potential solution of improving the rehabilitation by flat out saying that it doesn't work. All we know is that it hasn't worked for these people, why it hasn't worked is an unknown.

Say that the cost of indeterminate imprisonment is smaller than the cost of the financial damages they cause and we completely ignore the emotional and psychological well being of the offender (and for ourselves for locking people up indeterminately for burglary and car theft) the societal net on that re-offending individual is positive. However even at this point, which I think is fairly close to a best case scenario for what you seem to be supporting, you're left with the problem of correctly identifying who the perennial re-offenders are and who can be rehabilitated. This is worse if you don't consider potential changes to the rehabilitation approach as that cost might be significantly.

Some US states have those 3 strikes rules. To me seemingly attempting to move towards what you're suggesting, would you agree? I don't see that as a good solution.

 

[Superted]

That's not the argument RC put forward though, he's arguing that it's better for society.

I disagree about wanting a revenge based justice system on a lot of levels, primarily because I think it causes more human suffering - and not just for the perpetrators being punished. But that's all from a societal standpoint, if you just want retribution that's not really the issue at hand.

Seeing punishment only as a deterrent or retribution is a bit flawed I think as it ignores the rehabilitation factor.

I think rehabilitation is a factor in limited circumstances. It's about time society realised there are some lost causes out there and the best thing, the safest thing, for all concerned is that those who can't be rehabilitated, who can't be trusted not to be violent, are kept out of society permanently or until they are no longer a threat, not until some arbitrary period of time has been served.

 

[Superted]

Yep, I'm sure the sort of people who don't give a **** what happens to them, what the consequences are or what people think about them would be quaking in their boots.

That's not the point though. Who cares what they think, they'll offend anyway. Adults know the difference between right and wrong without having to have it spelt out in front of them.

Is the reason you didn't kill the last guy who ****ed you off because you knew you'd be locked away from 15 years for doing so, or because it's just not the thing to do.

I'd argue the justice system has a very minimal role in being a deterrent. Scum will be scum.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

They think they can get away with it because they're allowed to get away with it........

Its a bit like what happened with your wife, the stalking, hope you don't mind me bringing that up, but why did he continue, why was he allowed to? Because we're too soft in this country........ It beggars belief that the Liberals in this country think we should give rapers, peados, murderers, stalkers, scum that mug the old etc another chance. Most victims don't get another chance, or are usually scarred for life.

Those that don't want to conform, live like decent folk should be taken out of our society to let the rest of us live in peace. Build a big wall around the south poll then parachute them all in. I might even watch tv if they put cameras in there have a show a bit like the Hunger Games ....... Under 16? send them to Africa or wherever to work with charities, get them grounded, make them realise the worlds not just about them and impressing their bling pals.

In my view its only going to get worse, Blairs Labour created a vile underclass in this country that don't respect anything or anyone.

Waiting for the Liberals/Left to start name calling...... I need TP for my bunghole !

In your view is there anything wrong with Britain that ISN'T the fault of the Labour Party? Also, why hijack this bloke's thread with more tedious propaganda. Give it a break please!

 

[scaramanga]

Ignoring pedophilia, murder and rape here. Those are the very extreme situations and not what I think you're getting at in your post?

Yep, let's include criminals that 'damage' society with crimes against people. I'm far more concerned with the things that make society "a nice place to be" like avoiding burglary, casual violence, etc. than I am speeding or prostitution. The big stuff (like the three you mentioned) is probably worthy of its own discussion.

Would you agree that we instead say that those people have not been successfully rehabilitated, rather than that rehabilitation doesn't work? With your wording we're excluding a potential solution of improving the rehabilitation by flat out saying that it doesn't work. All we know is that it hasn't worked for these people, why it hasn't worked is an unknown.

I would say that we've been trying to rehabilitate prisoners for some time now and clearly in some cases, it doesn't work. If the future brings with it a working method of rehabilitating persistent criminals then great, let's rehabilitate them. If it's clear they're going to continually fvck things up for the rest of society, then let's simply keep them away from society.

Say that the cost of indeterminate imprisonment is smaller than the cost of the financial damages they cause and we completely ignore the emotional and psychological well being of the offender (and for ourselves for locking people up indeterminately for burglary and car theft)

I have no sympathy for the offender - they had a choice of crime or not crime, of prison or not prison. They have to live with their own choices. I'm not sure locking people up would have any effect on me - I don't tend to be afflicted by handicaps like empathy. I know you scandis are more inclined to that kind of thing though

the societal net on that re-offending individual is positive. However even at this point, which I think is fairly close to a best case scenario for what you seem to be supporting, you're left with the problem of correctly identifying who the perennial re-offenders are and who can be rehabilitated. This is worse if you don't consider potential changes to the rehabilitation approach as that cost might be significantly.

Some US states have those 3 strikes rules. To me seemingly attempting to move towards what you're suggesting, would you agree? I don't see that as a good solution.

I think it's fairly easy to identify a re-offender - it's simply one who has previously committed a crime, been through the rehabilitation offered and committed another crime.

The 3 strikes rules is a good idea IMO (and clearly a popular one with voters), implemented poorly at times.

All I want is for persistent offenders to not be offending any more. If there's a working method of rehabilitation (evidence would suggest otherwise) then great, if not then they need to be kept where they can't get their grubby mitts on my nice things.

 

[RomanzoCriminale]

I haven't seen the BBC documentary mentioned by the OP, but I did watch a rather interesting TED talk that I think is relevant to this.

[video=youtube;V1yW5IsnSjo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1yW5IsnSjo[/video]

I agree with dawaxman that this is something that goes on to some degree in all parts of society.



Do you have some reason and evidence behind this? Are there many good examples of societies/countries where the punishment is made harsher and crime decreases in your opinion?

What exactly do you mean by not giving stalkers and people that mug the old another chance?

I meant what i said, why should they have another chance, what about the victims did they have a chance.

I'm sure dawaxman will tell you that had the cnut that was stalking his wife been detained from the offset then his wife, himself and their family wouldn't have had to put up with years and years of harassment. Is that fair? Should they have had to put up with that, tell me why should he have been given chance after chance.

Also explain to me why some scummy **** who mugs an old lady, or knifes someone for their mobile should be given another chance? Another chance to what, if he's mugged once, chances are he'll do it again. If we had a strong enough deterrent then if someone wanted to go out and mug someone but knew the consequences then it would be there decision, they face the consequences if they're caught.......

As for examples of society, well i wouldn't want Sharia Law in this country, but only because its not English Law, but a lot of their consequences for crime are a hell of a lot better than our soft namby pamby ones. Oh and countries like Thailand etc don't do too bad, you steal you lose a hand, you kill, you lose your life, seems fair enough to me. Oh and before some mong on here decrees that these countries treat women with no respect and that I'm advocating that, READ MY POST, that is not what i'm advocating, that is wrong kong.

So come on explain to me why these people should be given another chance, I'm guessing you either don't have children or non of your close family have ever been victims.

 

[RomanzoCriminale]

How old are you out of interest? I'm 20 and fed up of hearing the generation that created mine that **** of ours. If you don't like it maybe you should have made different changes in your lifetime! And to call someone raised in a broken home by the generation before us with the generation before us raising them of benefits doesn't mean they should be called an 'underclass'.

Anyhow, like braineclpse says there's no evidence that harsher punishments mean a reduction in crime. Your coming from some flawed old school revengeist perspective. In the USA the states which have the death penalty for murder have some of the highest murder rates. It quite simply hasn't worked, doesn't work and will NEVER work.


But yes the domestic violence rates are shockingly high. Even more shocking is the fact that 1 out of 20 women have been sexually assaulted.

So your saying you love to **** trannies and sniff their skiddy undies ? I'm confused??????

 

[RomanzoCriminale]

Depends whether you think punishment should be a deterrent or retribution. I say retribution. I'd gladly live in a society where paedos, kid abusers, rapists and scummy wife beaters have their balls cut off.

Because **** them, that's why.

No but in America they're all banged up and some are on death row....... stops them repeating eh?