Murdered by my boyfriend

[RomanzoCriminale]

This is a very interesting discussion, although somewhat off topic when talking about what should be done to wife beaters and other scumbags.

Biology/neurology clearly plays a role, as illustrated by the example you bring up. But (as always) I do think there's a combination of factors, nature and nurture combining.

If someone can't be rehabilitated does it matter if it's neurological or not?

This is bullshiiiit......... Biology/Neurology, sure there might be some cases of people that are mentally ill, these should be locked up and treat and yes if they can be cured then great if not, keep them off the streets. Most of the scum that commit crime, kill, rape, vandalise, torment, steal, rob etc, i would say its because of their upbringing, their parents were cnuts who didn't give a ****, or may have abused or harmed them. Beings respectful comes from your parents, its instilled in you from a young age to be a decent person/citizen. Sadly in broken Britain a lot of kids don't stand a chance, no father figure, latchkey kids at really young ages..... Its disgraceful, but until people like you actually stop coming up with excuses and admit what the real problem is, it will always be a vicious circle.

 

[RomanzoCriminale]

Some US states have those 3 strikes rules. To me seemingly attempting to move towards what you're suggesting, would you agree? I don't see that as a good solution.

Come on tell us what is a good solution...... oh and while you're thinking of something, someone will have been mugged, raped, burgled, fondled and more likely than not by a repeat offender......

This countries lost with people like you and you're a teacher....... seriously if i found out you were teaching my children i would move my kids out of that school......

btw my kids are decent, loving, respectful, kind, caring etc...... They actually come from broken family, live with me 50% and their mum 50%....... the difference though is that they've had me in their lives being there for them, giving them my time, my love etc. I've no doubt had i lost the court case for shared custody things would have been a lot lot different, lets just say their mum wouldn't have instilled the values i have.

 

[RomanzoCriminale]

That's not the point though. Who cares what they think, they'll offend anyway. Adults know the difference between right and wrong without having to have it spelt out in front of them.

Is the reason you didn't kill the last guy who ****ed you off because you knew you'd be locked away from 15 years for doing so, or because it's just not the thing to do.

I'd argue the justice system has a very minimal role in being a deterrent. Scum will be scum.

You won't get through to them, they have a different ideology of life to normal forward thinking people.

How anyone wouldn't want to live in a society where anyone who does wrong is removed to let others just get on with their lives is unbelievable.

 

[RomanzoCriminale]

In your view is there anything wrong with Britain that ISN'T the fault of the Labour Party? Also, why hijack this bloke's thread with more tedious propaganda. Give it a break please!

Hahaha there you go again zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Facts are facts, you don't seem to understand that though do you. You still bitter and twisted over people who have more than you or have had more opportunity than you? Thought so......

 

[braineclipse]

I think rehabilitation is a factor in limited circumstances. It's about time society realised there are some lost causes out there and the best thing, the safest thing, for all concerned is that those who can't be rehabilitated, who can't be trusted not to be violent, are kept out of society permanently or until they are no longer a threat, not until some arbitrary period of time has been served.

How do you make the decision on who can and can't be rehabilitated? What's a reasonable line in the sand for you?

Rehabilitation is not only a factor in limited circumstances, it's a factor in most circumstances for most people.

 

[braineclipse]

I think it's fairly easy to identify a re-offender - it's simply one who has previously committed a crime, been through the rehabilitation offered and committed another crime.

The 3 strikes rules is a good idea IMO (and clearly a popular one with voters), implemented poorly at times.

All I want is for persistent offenders to not be offending any more. If there's a working method of rehabilitation (evidence would suggest otherwise) then great, if not then they need to be kept where they can't get their grubby mitts on my nice things.

I think up until this part of your post we more or less agree, or just disagree on stuff that's not all that important.

Disagree that it's easy to identify a re-offender. As has been showed with the (at times) poor implementation of the 3 strikes rule in the US.

What exactly is it the evidence suggests here? To me it seems that the evidence clearly suggests that some methods of rehabilitation works a lot better than others. There will be cases of persistent offenders, but identifying them at an early stage will be difficult.

I meant what i said, why should they have another chance, what about the victims did they have a chance.

I'm sure dawaxman will tell you that had the cnut that was stalking his wife been detained from the offset then his wife, himself and their family wouldn't have had to put up with years and years of harassment. Is that fair? Should they have had to put up with that, tell me why should he have been given chance after chance.

Also explain to me why some scummy **** who mugs an old lady, or knifes someone for their mobile should be given another chance? Another chance to what, if he's mugged once, chances are he'll do it again. If we had a strong enough deterrent then if someone wanted to go out and mug someone but knew the consequences then it would be there decision, they face the consequences if they're caught.......

As for examples of society, well i wouldn't want Sharia Law in this country, but only because its not English Law, but a lot of their consequences for crime are a hell of a lot better than our soft namby pamby ones. Oh and countries like Thailand etc don't do too bad, you steal you lose a hand, you kill, you lose your life, seems fair enough to me. Oh and before some mong on here decrees that these countries treat women with no respect and that I'm advocating that, READ MY POST, that is not what i'm advocating, that is wrong kong.

So come on explain to me why these people should be given another chance, I'm guessing you either don't have children or non of your close family have ever been victims.

I get it. Emotional appeals to revenge...

If Dawaxman feels like bringing his personal stories into this I will respond, but at this point I would rather not.

My question was a practical one, what do you mean by not giving them another chance? Someone mugs an old person, what should the consequences be in your opinion? Some details please...

Strong enough deterrent like a death sentence? How come people are on death row then? The deterrent was clearly there...

Did not see the sharia comparison coming. You seem to essentially want dark age type punishments?

In short I think they should be given a chance because I think it's better for society as a whole and because I think doing a bad thing doesn't necessarily make someone a bad person.

 

[RomanzoCriminale]

I think up until this part of your post we more or less agree, or just disagree on stuff that's not all that important.

Disagree that it's easy to identify a re-offender. As has been showed with the (at times) poor implementation of the 3 strikes rule in the US.

What exactly is it the evidence suggests here? To me it seems that the evidence clearly suggests that some methods of rehabilitation works a lot better than others. There will be cases of persistent offenders, but identifying them at an early stage will be difficult.



I get it. Emotional appeals to revenge...

If Dawaxman feels like bringing his personal stories into this I will respond, but at this point I would rather not.

My question was a practical one, what do you mean by not giving them another chance? Someone mugs an old person, what should the consequences be in your opinion? Some details please...

Strong enough deterrent like a death sentence? How come people are on death row then? The deterrent was clearly there...

Did not see the sharia comparison coming. You seem to essentially want dark age type punishments?

In short I think they should be given a chance because I think it's better for society as a whole and because I think doing a bad thing doesn't necessarily make someone a bad person.

Do you think these people were treat unjustly?

Hey instead of the punishment dished out maybe they should have given them another chance...... ????

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2704750/Indian-rape-suspects-lie-beaten-ground-surrounded-angry-mob-girl-seven-hanging-tree-latest-incident-shame-country.html

 

[RomanzoCriminale]

I think up until this part of your post we more or less agree, or just disagree on stuff that's not all that important.

Disagree that it's easy to identify a re-offender. As has been showed with the (at times) poor implementation of the 3 strikes rule in the US.

What exactly is it the evidence suggests here? To me it seems that the evidence clearly suggests that some methods of rehabilitation works a lot better than others. There will be cases of persistent offenders, but identifying them at an early stage will be difficult.



I get it. Emotional appeals to revenge...

If Dawaxman feels like bringing his personal stories into this I will respond, but at this point I would rather not.

My question was a practical one, what do you mean by not giving them another chance? Someone mugs an old person, what should the consequences be in your opinion? Some details please...

Strong enough deterrent like a death sentence? How come people are on death row then? The deterrent was clearly there...

Did not see the sharia comparison coming. You seem to essentially want dark age type punishments?

In short I think they should be given a chance because I think it's better for society as a whole and because I think doing a bad thing doesn't necessarily make someone a bad person.

I've already stated my opinion, if you don't want to conform and live like a decent caring law abiding citizen then they should be removed from society. Build a wall round the south pole and ship them off there. Why should we as decent folk have to have them in our lives, constantly re-offending, creating misery or sorrow......

Like i said if the government followed my edict and said right from now on anyone caught offending for serious crimes will have one strike and your out, you get shipped to the south pole to fend for yourselves you never come back. Okay i'll go with Scara's 3 strikes and you're out for smaller offences.......

So tell me, they have been warned up front of the consequences........ they decide to still go out and kill, mug, rape etc

Who's fault is it when they get shipped off and removed from society?

 

[RomanzoCriminale]

In short I think they should be given a chance because I think it's better for society as a whole and because I think doing a bad thing doesn't necessarily make someone a bad person.

Wtf...... this statement alone tells me there's either something wrong with you, or you're on a wind up

Peado rapes young girl, its better for society to give them another chance and they're not necessarily a bad person.....
Chav mugs and batters an old lady, its better for society to give them another chance and they're not necessarily a bad person.....
Gang knife young teenager, its better for society to give them another chance and they're not necessarily bad people.....
Rapist attacks young mother and leaves her for dead, its better for society to give them another chance and they're not necessarily a bad person.....
Stalker ruins a persons life, its better for society to give them another chance and they're not necessarily a bad person.....
Bomber kills many victims, its better for society to give them another chance and they're not necessarily a bad person.....
Labour bankrupt the country, its better for society to give them another chance and they're not necessarily bad people ..... \o/

My word......

 

[braineclipse]

Do you think these people were treat unjustly?

Hey instead of the punishment dished out maybe they should have given them another chance...... ????

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2704750/Indian-rape-suspects-lie-beaten-ground-surrounded-angry-mob-girl-seven-hanging-tree-latest-incident-shame-country.html

I do not believe in vigilante or mob justice. To be called justice at the very least there should be a court of law involved.

I've already stated my opinion, if you don't want to conform and live like a decent caring law abiding citizen then they should be removed from society. Build a wall round the south pole and ship them off there. Why should we as decent folk have to have them in our lives, constantly re-offending, creating misery or sorrow......

Like i said if the government followed my edict and said right from now on anyone caught offending for serious crimes will have one strike and your out, you get shipped to the south pole to fend for yourselves you never come back. Okay i'll go with Scara's 3 strikes and you're out for smaller offences.......

So tell me, they have been warned up front of the consequences........ they decide to still go out and kill, mug, rape etc

Who's fault is it when they get shipped off and removed from society?

My bad, I thought you were being hyperbolic in addition to unrealistic.

As the justice system you describe sounds barbaric to me I think most people would be to blame. The people offending and the society in general for instituting a system like that.

Just because "they were warned beforehand" really doesn't mean that whatever happens afterwards is fair game.

 

[dawaxman]

Very interesting reading this thread descend into an argument about how criminals should be dealt with....I'm not sure that this is what I intended to kick off. I think I was just stunned at the amount of cases of domestic violence in this country and as a crime it seems like a particularly sick one. There's no point trying to rank crimes, but harming someone who loves you and is vulnerable and not really able to escape or report you just feels horrific...like creating a prison for the victim. What kind of human being is capable of that? The answer sadly is lots of 'human beings'....I think I was just empathizing with the plight of victims of domestic violence, and how there's no end-game for them.....

 

[braineclipse]

This is bullshiiiit......... Biology/Neurology, sure there might be some cases of people that are mentally ill, these should be locked up and treat and yes if they can be cured then great if not, keep them off the streets. Most of the scum that commit crime, kill, rape, vandalise, torment, steal, rob etc, i would say its because of their upbringing, their parents were cnuts who didn't give a ****, or may have abused or harmed them. Beings respectful comes from your parents, its instilled in you from a young age to be a decent person/citizen. Sadly in broken Britain a lot of kids don't stand a chance, no father figure, latchkey kids at really young ages..... Its disgraceful, but until people like you actually stop coming up with excuses and admit what the real problem is, it will always be a vicious circle.

I really don't get how your train of thought gets from me saying that nature and nurture are both factors without me making claims about the relative strength of each to this.

It seems you're blaming the parents, or lack of parents. So the solution would be to help the kids that grow up in those circumstances it would seem to me.

Wtf...... this statement alone tells me there's either something wrong with you, or you're on a wind up

Peado rapes young girl, its better for society to give them another chance and they're not necessarily a bad person.....
Chav mugs and batters an old lady, its better for society to give them another chance and they're not necessarily a bad person.....
Gang knife young teenager, its better for society to give them another chance and they're not necessarily bad people.....
Rapist attacks young mother and leaves her for dead, its better for society to give them another chance and they're not necessarily a bad person.....
Stalker ruins a persons life, its better for society to give them another chance and they're not necessarily a bad person.....
Bomber kills many victims, its better for society to give them another chance and they're not necessarily a bad person.....
Labour bankrupt the country, its better for society to give them another chance and they're not necessarily bad people ..... \o/

My word......

Wind-up comment right back at you.

I can assure you I'm being serious. I think most well informed people in a discussion like this would realize that my opinions are not all that uncommon and have some rationality behind them even if they disagreed. The fact that you suggest that I'm likely to be on a wind-up tells me more than your poor punctuation and spelling. At this point this thread has gone way too far off topic, and I'm done playing my part in that by arguing with you.

 

[braineclipse]

Very interesting reading this thread descend into an argument about how criminals should be dealt with....I'm not sure that this is what I intended to kick off. I think I was just stunned at the amount of cases of domestic violence in this country and as a crime it seems like a particularly sick one. There's no point trying to rank crimes, but harming someone who loves you and is vulnerable and not really able to escape or report you just feels horrific...like creating a prison for the victim. What kind of human being is capable of that? The answer sadly is lots of 'human beings'....I think I was just empathizing with the plight of victims of domestic violence, and how there's no end-game for them.....

I apologize for my part in taking your excellent and well intentioned thread off topic.

This is clearly a topic large enough for several threads and shouldn't be derailed on the first page of a single thread.

 

[RomanzoCriminale]

I really don't get how your train of thought gets from me saying that nature and nurture are both factors without me making claims about the relative strength of each to this.

It seems you're blaming the parents, or lack of parents. So the solution would be to help the kids that grow up in those circumstances it would seem to me.

Wind-up comment right back at you.

I can assure you I'm being serious. I think most well informed people in a discussion like this would realize that my opinions are not all that uncommon and have some rationality behind them even if they disagreed. The fact that you suggest that I'm likely to be on a wind-up tells me more than your poor punctuation and spelling. At this point this thread has gone way too far off topic, and I'm done playing my part in that by arguing with you.

Not uncommon among Liberal Nimbies and the **** end of the Left......

As for pulling me up on my pronunciation and spelling....... hahaha always throw stones then call an end to the argument when you're losing and can't see a way out.....typical Lefty .....


ciao comrade

 

[RomanzoCriminale]

Very interesting reading this thread descend into an argument about how criminals should be dealt with....I'm not sure that this is what I intended to kick off. I think I was just stunned at the amount of cases of domestic violence in this country and as a crime it seems like a particularly sick one. There's no point trying to rank crimes, but harming someone who loves you and is vulnerable and not really able to escape or report you just feels horrific...like creating a prison for the victim. What kind of human being is capable of that? The answer sadly is lots of 'human beings'....I think I was just empathizing with the plight of victims of domestic violence, and how there's no end-game for them.....

The Liberals and Left of this world though would rather emphasise with the person committing the crime and forget about the victims.

 

[braineclipse]

Not uncommon among Liberal Nimbies and the **** end of the Left......

As for pulling me up on my pronunciation and spelling....... hahaha always throw stones then call an end to the argument when you're losing and can't see a way out.....typical Lefty .....


ciao comrade

If you genuinely want to continue this discussion start another thread and I will most likely join. If you do feel free to leave out the inaccurate generalizations.

 

[dawaxman]

The Liberals and Left of this world though would rather emphasise with the person committing the crime and forget about the victims.

Yes, agreed...this happens all too often, and the victim is merely treated as a witness to a crime against the state. The victim support in this country is basic at best. I wish I could do something to help these women in their road to recovery and empowerment...

 

[AuroRaman]

I apologize for my part in taking your excellent and well intentioned thread off topic.

This is clearly a topic large enough for several threads and shouldn't be derailed on the first page of a single thread.

Don't apologise. It's not your fault angry little men keep derailing threads in random with all this tedious left/right bull****. Domestic violence is an incredibly serious issue. To bring politics or whatever ****y philosophy into it is quite frankly ridiculous.

I feel very sad for these people. 'My party is better than your party' etc. Bore off.

 

[tommysvr]

Yes, agreed...this happens all too often, and the victim is merely treated as a witness to a crime against the state. The victim support in this country is basic at best. I wish I could do something to help these women in their road to recovery and empowerment...

It's not an issue isolated to England, that's for sure. A women is killed every week in Australia by "domestic" violence (such a ****ty term for it.)

I'm not sure how someone could commit such despicable acts to someone though supposedly love (talking about abuse, not murder). But it's something they can do in private, then hang out with their mates like nothing's happened. I've firmly got behind the White Ribbon campaign - it's men making it known that you won't stand for it. I think one of the best ways to combat it is by shaming other men, which is quite sad in itself.

 

[tommysvr]

This is a good article to read about "the monster myth" - that is, the majority of violence against women is committed by a stranger on the street. This was actually written by a man whose wife was raped and murdered by a stranger on the street in Melbourne 2 years ago.

He's Tom Meagher - quite an incredible person in my opinion.

http://whiteribbonblog.com/2014/04/17/the-danger-of-the-monster-myth/