Mousa Dembele

[Robspur12]

As a 'defensive AM' option he is useful[/B]. But we pay him far too much to be a bit-part option for a handful of situations. It's much better to replace him with someone more capable of providing direct cover for Mason.

Absolutely not. Do you not recall his performance against Arsenal in an advanced role? In that game not only did he press well high up the pitch but also moved the ball well for us. For me his problems come from being so one footed. But We need his strength in the middle of the park. There is no rhyme or reason for him to be dropped on form alone imo as Townsend and Paulinho have hardly played themselves back into the squad.

 

[Gutter Boy]

COVER for Mason? I sure hope we sign someone that is miles ahead of Mason, and Mason being the cover! Anything less would be utterly pointless!!

That would knock the whole Poch ethos and team spirit off course though. The whole point is that our core is a gang of homegrown players who have come through together. Starting to palm them off for shiny new signings, who actually aren't likely to be any better, just destroys everything.

Rather than being a poor man's Chelsea, we are now trying to be an Ajax/Dortmund/Athletico. That means backing your youth all the way, until an even better youth comes to push them out. The only players I want to see replacing Mason (in time) are Winks or Alli.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Absolutely not. Do you not recall his performance against Arsenal in an advanced role? In that game not only did he press well high up the pitch but also moved the ball well for us. For me his problems come from being so one footed. But We need his strength in the middle of the park. There is no rhyme or reason for him to be dropped on form alone imo as Townsend and Paulinho have hardly played themselves back into the squad.

It was Chadli's return from compassionate leave that caused him to drop out of the side. I agree though that Chadli hasn't matched his early season form again though.

 

[parklane1]

He has talent without a doubt but I do not think he is suited for what Poch wants.

 

[Rorschach]

I'd play him 10 times out of 10 over Paulinho.

 

[Yiddo]

I would play him 10 times out of 10 over Lamela and Townsend aswell.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

I'd play him 10 times out of 10 over Paulinho.

I would play him 10 times out of 10 over Lamela and Townsend aswell.

Football is truly a game of opinions but I cannot but be bemused by these assertions. Sure Paulinho has not set the Premiership alight but what the hell has Dembele done over the past two years? SFA other than slow our game, waste glorious counterattacks by his inability to spot the quick pass and dribble himself senseless without any threat to the opposition. Yet people would play him 10 times out of 10 over these three players who have at least scored goals and set up chances...

 

[braineclipse]

Absolutely not. Do you not recall his performance against Arsenal in an advanced role? In that game not only did he press well high up the pitch but also moved the ball well for us. For me his problems come from being so one footed. But We need his strength in the middle of the park. There is no rhyme or reason for him to be dropped on form alone imo as Townsend and Paulinho have hardly played themselves back into the squad.

I don't see how this disagrees with GB's statement that Dembele is at his best in a "defensive AM" role?

That would knock the whole Poch ethos and team spirit off course though. The whole point is that our core is a gang of homegrown players who have come through together. Starting to palm them off for shiny new signings, who actually aren't likely to be any better, just destroys everything.

Rather than being a poor man's Chelsea, we are now trying to be an Ajax/Dortmund/Athletico. That means backing your youth all the way, until an even better youth comes to push them out. The only players I want to see replacing Mason (in time) are Winks or Alli.

Disagree. It's not like Dortmund or Athletico have built their teams or starting 11s exclusively from homegrown players... Some of Dortmunds signings like Lewandowski, Reus and Gundogan have been absolutely inspired and were key in them succeeding to the level they did.

If we do sign "an upgrade" on Mason it has to be someone who fits in tohe ethos and team spirit Poch is trying to instill. That's the important point. If that happens I feel quite confident that Mason will be willing to fight for his place in the team. And he would be an option for more attacking roles, as well as getting games in cup competitions and when we run into injuries, as well as being a useful option from the bench. We've seen several players respond really well to supposed upgrades, kick on and make a spot in the team theirs with more competition. I don't think that's beyond Mason. And I don't think it's in any way unfair or not right to sign "an upgrade", as long as that player does fit into the system and is picked on merit.

 

[Yiddo]

Football is truly a game of opinions but I cannot but be bemused by these assertions. Sure Paulinho has not set the Premiership alight but what the hell has Dembele done over the past two years? SFA other than slow our game, waste glorious counterattacks by his inability to spot the quick pass and dribble himself senseless without any threat to the opposition. Yet people would play him 10 times out of 10 over these three players who have at least scored goals and set up chances...

alot of people do not rate Dembele and i think when they dislike a player like they do Dembele they only see what they want to see. He may not be Xavi but he brings more to the table than most of our midfielders apart from goals scored which he does need to improve on. Under AVB he did hold onto the ball for long periods and i was frustrated with him but what i have seen with him this season is he is passing alot more quickly its just people are obsessed with killer through balls which i am afriad Mason does not do many of yet he is the best thing since sliced bread in some peoples eyes.

 

[braineclipse]

alot of people do not rate Dembele and i think when they dislike a player like they do Dembele they only see what they want to see. He may not be Xavi but he brings more to the table than most of our midfielders apart from goals scored which he does need to improve on. Under AVB he did hold onto the ball for long periods and i was frustrated with him but what i have seen with him this season is he is passing alot more quickly its just people are obsessed with killer through balls which i am afriad Mason does not do many of yet he is the best thing since sliced bread in some peoples eyes.

If all of that was true I think Pochettino would play him a lot more than he does.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

alot of people do not rate Dembele and i think when they dislike a player like they do Dembele they only see what they want to see. He may not be Xavi but he brings more to the table than most of our midfielders apart from goals scored which he does need to improve on. Under AVB he did hold onto the ball for long periods and i was frustrated with him but what i have seen with him this season is he is passing alot more quickly its just people are obsessed with killer through balls which i am afriad Mason does not do many of yet he is the best thing since sliced bread in some peoples eyes.

Can't say I agree. The problem with Dembele is not that he does not play the killer pass but he does not play the pass - full stop.

 

[Yiddo]

Can't say I agree. The problem with Dembele is not that he does not play the killer pass but he does not play the pass - full stop.

What a load of gonad*s.

 

[Rorschach]

I think fans opinion of Dembele diverges so much because of a growing frustration that he has not hit the heights which his obvious talent demands. The stick used to beat him with is that he is under-performing compared to where he should be, and honestly I don't think that is valid viewpoint. He has more than likely gone past the point where he'll improve enough for the RMs or Barca's of this world. I'm pretty sure that ship has sailed but that does not make him a bad player by any means.

The lazy analysis trotted out that he doesn't release the ball is almost tabloid journalistic in its blinkered view of his contribution on the pitch. That is only one aspect of his play of which an opposite viewpoint could be taken that he retains possession well. The truth is as always somewhere in between. Do I think he should move the ball quicker on occasion? Yes, but not every occasion. His inclination is to keep possession by default, and when put under pressure that is his fall-back mindset. It is a mindset that has be trained into him IMO since his move back into CM at Fulham and Spurs. AVB had a big part to play in that I believe, but you can see this season that if when he is moved further forward (to his Alkmaar position) a lot of the hesitation has disappeared.

I'm too lazy to check but I'm pretty sure Dembele got some good scores in the match ratings for his cameos and starts up until that last outing. He had a stinker then but everybody else did that day too if I recall. Whereas Paulinho is a nothing player for me. Does nothing well that I can see and slows our play down far worse than Dembele ever did. On on top of that Paulie plays like a coward and passes responsibility (literally) at the earliest opportunity. I would play Dembele 10 times out of 10 over Paulinho.

 

[Spurmac1974]

A real blind spot for Poch, his underuse is crazy especially when you look at what started ahead of him at Burnley!

 

[braineclipse]

I think fans opinion of Dembele diverges so much because of a growing frustration that he has not hit the heights which his obvious talent demands. The stick used to beat him with is that he is under-performing compared to where he should be, and honestly I don't think that is valid viewpoint. He has more than likely gone past the point where he'll improve enough for the RMs or Barca's of this world. I'm pretty sure that ship has sailed but that does not make him a bad player by any means.

The lazy analysis trotted out that he doesn't release the ball is almost tabloid journalistic in its blinkered view of his contribution on the pitch. That is only one aspect of his play of which an opposite viewpoint could be taken that he retains possession well. The truth is as always somewhere in between. Do I think he should move the ball quicker on occasion? Yes, but not every occasion. His inclination is to keep possession by default, and when put under pressure that is his fall-back mindset. It is a mindset that has be trained into him IMO since his move back into CM at Fulham and Spurs. AVB had a big part to play in that I believe, but you can see this season that if when he is moved further forward (to his Alkmaar position) a lot of the hesitation has disappeared.

I'm too lazy to check but I'm pretty sure Dembele got some good scores in the match ratings for his cameos and starts up until that last outing. He had a stinker then but everybody else did that day too if I recall. Whereas Paulinho is a nothing player for me. Does nothing well that I can see and slows our play down far worse than Dembele ever did. On on top of that Paulie plays like a coward and passes responsibility (literally) at the earliest opportunity. I would play Dembele 10 times out of 10 over Paulinho.

Didn't pay attention to him early in his Fulham days, and certainly didn't watch him at all at Alkmaar. But his keeping the ball trait doesn't to me seem like something coached into him during a season-ish at Fulham playing deeper. Rather it seems perfectly like a more attacking player used to holding up the ball and doing things on his own when he gets it being moved to a deeper position. Dembele at his best in attacking positions takes players on, and rather rarely plays one and two touch football. Moving him deeper the problem has been to coach that fairly natural instinct out of his game and get him passing and moving quickly as is usually the better option in deeper positions.

Quick pass and move football depends on a lot of things and is not just a change of mindset. There have been signs of Dembele improving in this, but if he can transform enough to be a good option for us under Poch I'm still not convinced.

 

[Spurs7891]

It will be disappointing if we don't get the best out of Dembele and let him go. It is a mystery why we always buy highly-rated midfielders and turn them into mediocre ones after signing them. We must be doing something wrong somewhere.

 

[Gutter Boy]

It will be disappointing if we don't get the best out of Dembele and let him go. It is a mystery why we always buy highly-rated midfielders and turn them into mediocre ones after signing them. We must be doing something wrong somewhere.

Poor recruitment. Dembele's reputation comes mainly from the Man U youtube video.

He was a typical bad-old-Spurs style-over-substance signing

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Poor recruitment. Dembele's reputation comes mainly from the Man U youtube video.

He was a typical bad-old-Spurs style-over-substance signing

Rubbish

He has the ability to be the oustanding midfielder in this league. It's no coincidence he looks at his best against the better sides like when he came on early doors vs chelsea this season

The under use of him lately in favour of players like poorlinho is shockingly bad management imo. Dembeles clear strength is possession based skill and technique whcih players likes Poorlinho, Lamella and townsend simply don't have

Yes he has weaknesses and you have to wonder why they age my been coached out of him but he is a far better player than you give him credit for

 

[Maltese Falcon]

He has the ability to be the oustanding midfielder in this league. It's no coincidence he looks at his best against the better sides like when he came on early doors vs chelsea this season

So does Ravel Morrison, Adel Taarabt and an endless list of players I can mention. But they are not - and there is a reason for that. The only reason he looks good against the top side is because he does not lose the ball and is capable of dribbling his way past even world class oppposition - but what does he do with the ball then?

Yes he has weaknesses and you have to wonder why they age my been coached out of him but he is a far better player than you give him credit for

AVB tried to coach it out of him and failed; Sherwood tried to coach it out of him and failed; Poch tried to coach it out of him and failed.... get the pattern? What is the common factor here?

This is a player who admits loving to dribble for dribbling sake; who - despite being vaunted by many posters as our best attacking midfielder, scores less than Townsend and Lamela, and who had to be motivated by being told he could be the next Real Madrid signing because he was so laid back...

His feet may be worldclass but his brain lags behind - big time. I am honestly sick of people making all sorts of apologies for Dembele when the fact is he is simply too mentally lazy to work at his game in the way Kane did and hit the heights that he is capable of. He will never even get close to his potential because he lacks the most important attribute of a successful player - sheer bloodymindedness

 

[braineclipse]

So does Ravel Morrison, Adel Taarabt and an endless list of players I can mention. But they are not - and there is a reason for that. The only reason he looks good against the top side is because he does not lose the ball and is capable of dribbling his way past even world class oppposition - but what does he do with the ball then?



AVB tried to coach it out of him and failed; Sherwood tried to coach it out of him and failed; Poch tried to coach it out of him and failed.... get the pattern? What is the common factor here?

This is a player who admits loving to dribble for dribbling sake; who - despite being vaunted by many posters as our best attacking midfielder, scores less than Townsend and Lamela, and who had to be motivated by being told he could be the next Real Madrid signing because he was so laid back...

His feet may be worldclass but his brain lags behind - big time. I am honestly sick of people making all sorts of apologies for Dembele when the fact is he is simply too mentally lazy to work at his game in the way Kane did and hit the heights that he is capable of. He will never even get close to his potential because he lacks the most important attribute of a successful player - sheer bloodymindedness

Agreed that it's not fair to just blame the coaches. And I think some of his problems were evident at Fulham too so more coaches could be added to that list. Not entirely sure AVB wanted him to change that much though, he was a fairly good fit in AVB's somewhat cautious, possession oriented, two defensively very solid central midfielders type setup.

Also a bit harsh to just call him lazy. He's struggling to learn quick pass and move football at a very high level in his mid-late twenties. It's not like learning to ride a bike and tons of footballers have failed at that. At least on the pitch he's always looked disciplined, diligent and hard working.