Mousa Dembele

[The egyptian]

Re: Official - Mousa Dembele

He is what he is. Strong, can beat a man like he's not there, but not creative, can't see a pass and slows the game down along with Paulinho. Would like to keep Dembele as a squad player but nothing more.

I strongly agree about his lack of creativity, but He looks good yesterday and Showed us the same performance as hist first season here. The connecting between yesterday and this season for me is the creativity infornt of him, apparently he misses Bale and VDV.

 

[Sandman]

Re: Official - Mousa Dembele

I like Dembele a lot as a player. Very hard to get the ball off and can easily beat a man. And has a good shot when he uses it. But yes he is not very good at seeing a pass. Jol saw this so moved him back into midfield to counter that issue. But Sherwood and now Poch are trying to move him up the pitch again. For me he can work for Masons place or Bentelebs. But just because he can get past a man does not make him a forward anymore. He need to retain possession and then just give it to one of the other three to create. The problem for me is that Lamela is still bedding in, Eriksen does not dominate games and Chadli can but good to ****. So the creative players in front of him are not that easy to rely on.

 

[GrimsbyYid]

Find it staggering how people who rave about mason (sorry for always banging on about this kid) can't admit that dembele was excellent yesterday. Dembele problem is he can't seem to do it consistently, but he was so strong, so solid, great movement. AIlity wise he's lewgues ahead of our other midfielders, just need to add consistency.

 

[Rossi22]

I like both very much, and Nabil. Not sure on Stambouli though.

 

[Raziel]

Find it staggering how people who rave about mason (sorry for always banging on about this kid) can't admit that dembele was excellent yesterday. Dembele problem is he can't seem to do it consistently, but he was so strong, so solid, great movement. AIlity wise he's lewgues ahead of our other midfielders, just need to add consistency.

I don't think anyone disagrees with Dembele's ability, he alongside Townsend frustrate people no end because its almost 100% decision making that stops them from being much more.

He was good yesterday, and actually improved his case for being more regular, but only in the setup we used

- Bentaleb definitely played the deeper role
- Chadli had the left
- Kane/Eriksen free to move around

Dembele seemed to be a bit higher up, good game, could/would keep him around (A few other in our midfield I would sell before him)

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

I like both very much, and Nabil. Not sure on Stambouli though.

Agreed, I think we have 3 very good CM's there and Stambouli still has to prove a bit, but looks a decent squad option for the moment. Capoue I think is awful and will be sold back to France. Paulinho is prob more suited to the attacking 3 midfield positions now rather than the central 2, but obviously still has a hell of a lot to prove - I like the way he's being used at the moment, sparingly and the odd cup game until he starts putting in some really good perfomances again.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

Dembele for me is an enigma - he does brilliantly against the better sides but disappears against the smaller sides. I would put this down to two things:
- Motivation: the player has difficulty in motivating himself; Les Ferdinand's Real Madrid comment highlights that abundantly. He clearly lifts himself against the Manures and Chelscums but not against the Burnleys
- His style of play: he is a player who will take an extra second and dribble an additional player before laying off the ball. This is frustrating against teams playing two banks of four because he will be crowded out and because he does not play the ball first time, loses that window of opportunity of surprising a packed defence. However against a top team it is ideal. He is virtually impossible to steal the ball off meaning that teams playing a high press will try to crowd him out nut in so doing develop gaps which he then exploits.

While I was all for fogging him off, I think we should keep him - primarily to play the big games. Indeed I am positive we would not have won yesterday if Mason did not pick up his injury.

 

[braineclipse]

Find it staggering how people who rave about mason (sorry for always banging on about this kid) can't admit that dembele was excellent yesterday. Dembele problem is he can't seem to do it consistently, but he was so strong, so solid, great movement. AIlity wise he's lewgues ahead of our other midfielders, just need to add consistency.

Ability, perhaps. Actual performances, not so much.

Then there's the question of key abilities to fit into a team and a system. Under AVB, when we had Bale, and the key points for our deep midfielders was defensive solidity Dembele fit in rather well alongside Sandro for example. Now we're playing differently. One of the key aspects under Poch seems to be ability to pass and move quickly. Quick transitions when appropriate, quick passing to play through pressure and find space. Our new signings, our youngsters getting plenty of playing time. They have that ability in common I think.

It's a key aspect where Dembele struggles, and he will struggle in our system under Poch until and unless he manages to sort that out. He has bags of ability, but key weaknesses are holding him back and the total sum of his ability is less important.

One of the players that can still go either way under Poch. Could see him out the door, could see him respond to Poch, up his game and take the next step we've been waiting for him to take.

 

[Rorschach]

Ability, perhaps. Actual performances, not so much.

Then there's the question of key abilities to fit into a team and a system. Under AVB, when we had Bale, and the key points for our deep midfielders was defensive solidity Dembele fit in rather well alongside Sandro for example. Now we're playing differently. One of the key aspects under Poch seems to be ability to pass and move quickly. Quick transitions when appropriate, quick passing to play through pressure and find space. Our new signings, our youngsters getting plenty of playing time. They have that ability in common I think.

It's a key aspect where Dembele struggles, and he will struggle in our system under Poch until and unless he manages to sort that out. He has bags of ability, but key weaknesses are holding him back and the total sum of his ability is less important.

One of the players that can still go either way under Poch. Could see him out the door, could see him respond to Poch, up his game and take the next step we've been waiting for him to take.

I think you are bang on with this comment. For me he is one of three players in our squad with ability in abundance but have decision making problems of one sort or another. Townsend and Lamela being the other two IMO. Poch has worked wonders with the 'weaknesses' of other squad players and so I will be a little disappointed if he doesn't improve these three aslo. All three players are slightly different cases but ultimately he has to get them making the right choices with the ball.

I think Dembele does better than he is given credit for mind.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I like the Bentaleb-Dembele pairing. In fact the 3 with Mason could rotate through the season. With Stombouli coving injuries and FA cup. Dembele provides a bit of protection somehow. He can hold off players, which strengthens our midfield. It just puts the opposition on the back foot a little. For example if one or two players are drawn to Dembele who holds them off physically, and then releases the ball to Bentaleb - he then has that much more time to pick a pass or drive forward because Dembele has probably left a player on the flaw or stumbling around!

Just having that more physical presence can help. He can shield the ball so well it can suck teams in creating space.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Decision-making. It's been his problem from day one. He was supremely good against Chelsea, defensively solid, strong, hard-working, calm and considered when making short passes. But you get the feeling with him that another error-strewn display is just a game away. Plus that hip injury of his: I have no idea if he's still suffering from it, but it is a factor to consider when analyzing his potential long-term status here.

He had a brilliant game against Chelsea. But performances like that have to become the norm from him if the injury truly isn't a problem anymore. He'd be wasting his talent if he ultimately retires without ever achieving a consistent level of performances equivalent to the one he put in yesterday.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Find it staggering how people who rave about mason (sorry for always banging on about this kid) can't admit that dembele was excellent yesterday. Dembele problem is he can't seem to do it consistently, but he was so strong, so solid, great movement. AIlity wise he's lewgues ahead of our other midfielders, just need to add consistency.

Mason has been a far better player for us this season that Dembele although I'm sure you would Argue that

With Dembele it is t about ability. If you look back through this thread I've said that he should be the best midfielder in the league... If only he believed it himself

But for the way we play he has to date been a passenger. Yesterday once he settled though he was exceptionally good. But he has to play at that tempo for more than 60 minutes of one game. He has more than enough qualities to excel in this side but the important one is in his head...

You do not rate Mason but he is so key to the fast paced game we are trying to play. When he went off we looked lost until we settled into a different pattern (not shape) and Kane scored a top notch solo goal.

 

[Lamelad]

Was superb yesterday. So powerful. Matic could not cope.

I even think mason's injury was sadly a blessing in disguise. Not saying the kid isnt good but Dembele was rock and roll yesterday.

 

[GrimsbyYid]

Mason has been a far better player for us this season that Dembele although I'm sure you would Argue that

With Dembele it is t about ability. If you look back through this thread I've said that he should be the best midfielder in the league... If only he believed it himself

But for the way we play he has to date been a passenger. Yesterday once he settled though he was exceptionally good. But he has to play at that tempo for more than 60 minutes of one game. He has more than enough qualities to excel in this side but the important one is in his head...

You do not rate Mason but he is so key to the fast paced game we are trying to play. When he went off we looked lost until we settled into a different pattern (not shape) and Kane scored a top notch solo goal.

Hard to say as Dembele has barely played, but in moments Dembele has looked good and in others not so, his problem through and through. I just feel, and always felt, that Dembele on his days is infinitely better than mason could ever hope to be, and an I consistent dembele appeals to me more than a cosistently average mason.

We just need to somehow get Dembele playing like that every game and it'll strengthen us immeasurably.

 

[braineclipse]

Hard to say as Dembele has barely played, but in moments Dembele has looked good and in others not so, his problem through and through. I just feel, and always felt, that Dembele on his days is infinitely better than mason could ever hope to be, and an I consistent dembele appeals to me more than a cosistently average mason.

We just need to somehow get Dembele playing like that every game and it'll strengthen us immeasurably.

Dembele joined Fulham 4.5 years ago from Holland at a similar age to Mason's current age.

I wonder if they had been the same age and Dembele had just had his first half a season in the PL, like Mason, if you would be as bombastic about their prospects.

 

[screen nayim]

You have to wonder at the coaching at Spurs.

Most can see the ability Dembele has when holding off his opponent before ghosting past him, but the huge gap in his game is his lack of ability to exploit the space he creates so well, so often.

He doesn't appear to have had any coaching on what to do with the ball once he has beaten his man. As a result he either runs into a blind alley or plays a sideways / backwards pass. So, so frustrating because he could easily be up among the best CMs in the prem.

Should not be sold IMHO, but forced to watch videos of Y Toure in those games where he can be arsed.

 

[Kandi1977]

Dembele for me is an enigma - he does brilliantly against the better sides but disappears against the smaller sides. I would put this down to two things:
- Motivation: the player has difficulty in motivating himself; Les Ferdinand's Real Madrid comment highlights that abundantly. He clearly lifts himself against the Manures and Chelscums but not against the Burnleys
- His style of play: he is a player who will take an extra second and dribble an additional player before laying off the ball. This is frustrating against teams playing two banks of four because he will be crowded out and because he does not play the ball first time, loses that window of opportunity of surprising a packed defence. However against a top team it is ideal. He is virtually impossible to steal the ball off meaning that teams playing a high press will try to crowd him out nut in so doing develop gaps which he then exploits.

While I was all for fogging him off, I think we should keep him - primarily to play the big games. Indeed I am positive we would not have won yesterday if Mason did not pick up his injury.

Totally agree with this! He's unbearable at times, and often kills all the speed and momentum in attacks, but vs teams where we need to hold on to the ball at times, he can be a beast! The most frustrating about him is that if he actually could learn when to dribble and when to pass/shot, he would be world class! He has it in him, but doesn't seem to know it. Mason getting injured was a blessing in disguise in that game. I think we would have been outplayed in midfield with Mason on the pitch.

 

[Spurs7891]

Re: Official - Mousa Dembele

Shocking revelations in every way... but very enlightening on the conundrum that is Moussa Dembele.

If this is the type of motivation that he needs to play, then his head is in the wrong place. Plus the same things we see on the pitch, he repeats on the training ground.

... the sooner we get rid of Dembele, the better.


Former Tottenham forward Les Ferdinand has made the stunning revelation that coaches at the club used to motivate Mousa Dembele by telling him he could earn a move away if he played well.
The Belgian midfielder played 90 minutes as Mauricio Pochettino's side lost 1-0 to Besiktas in Istanbul.
But Ferdinand felt the 27-year-old could have offered more, admitting he struggled to motivate the Belgian midfielder while working as a coach in north London.
Mousa Dembele played 90 minutes as Mauricio Pochettino's side lost 1-0 to Besiktas in Istanbul

Speaking on ITV, he said: 'We used to watch him in (Tottenham's) training - every time he gets the ball he wants someone to challenge him and he gets past them but just passes it sideways.
'He's got great ability you just don't see enough of it. He leaves you frustrated because you know he's got more and you want to see it.
'We used to say to him: "You're the next person to go to Real Madrid, you're the next guy to go to Real Madrid from this club".
'He can get forward. He's got a great shot on him you just never see it.'

Former Celtic boss Gordon Strachan also agreed that although Dembele possessed talent, he was often a frustrating figure to watch.
He said: 'The game looks like it's so easy for him. He's big and strong, he's got everything.
'He should be a guy who you're saying is man of the match maybe 20 per cent of the time he plays, but he doesn't even get a game every week.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2870864/Tottenham-coaches-used-motivate-Mousa-Dembele-telling-earn-Real-Madrid-played-well.html

Just saw this. It is unbelievable ! It only shows we have more problem with our coaches than the players. If they can only motivate the players by telling them that they have to play well to move to big clubs like Real Madrid, then you know the coaches are not good enough, Les Ferdinand in particular. They are indirectly demotivating the players by making them think Spurs are not good enough for them. Just imagine what they have been telling our most expensive players like Soldado and Lamela ! No wonder our strikers have struggled ever since Ferdinand joined Spurs as a coach.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Hard to say as Dembele has barely played, but in moments Dembele has looked good and in others not so, his problem through and through. I just feel, and always felt, that Dembele on his days is infinitely better than mason could ever hope to be, and an I consistent dembele appeals to me more than a cosistently average mason.

We just need to somehow get Dembele playing like that every game and it'll strengthen us immeasurably.

As I've said before, Dembele could be the best player in the league. He just hasn't got it in his head yet and needs too soon to realise that potential

Mason on the other hand is still developing in a positive way and is a very different style of player to Dembele. Demebele has actually been used more as an alternative to Bentelab and Paulinho for Mason.

The problem with the "sh1t" version of Dembele is that it actually cripples us from playing. When he plays poorly his decision making makes Lamella look like Maradona.

Maybe we need to look at the bigger picture and recognise there is room and a need for 4 players for those two positions with a mix of strengths.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Official - Mousa Dembele

He is what he is. Strong, can beat a man like he's not there, but not creative, can't see a pass and slows the game down along with Paulinho. Would like to keep Dembele as a squad player but nothing more.

Unfair on Paulinho, who did well in the hole when he came on and supplied a lovely touch en route to the 5th goal, deft and accurate.