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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

In 86 Argentina were very ordinary, but Maradona won every game. Hard to draw any parallels or conclusions when a freak like Maradona is involved
 
Bullet said:
In 86 Argentina were very ordinary, but Maradona won every game. Hard to draw any parallels or conclusions when a freak like Maradona is involved
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Yep, and Menotti *hated* that. When it came to the 'Hand of GHod' goal in particular, he said that he was repulsed by the fact that people didn't think the way Argentina won the game was unedifying - indeed, the fact that people said 'great!' and that they thought it even better that the goal was so unfair and unjust sickened him.

For Menotti, a lot of the game came down to its intangible spirit, its ethos as an endeavour that united people in a common pursuit as opposed to an endeavour which pitted people against each other (as Bilardo saw it). Bilardo got Maradona to perform miracles in 1986 because he set his team up precisely to give Maradona as much free space and time as possible (a 3-5-1-1 with Maradona roaming behind the striker - a *big* departure from his approach prior to the WC). So, in a sense, Maradona doing well in that WC was because Bilardo treated him like AVB treated Bale, and he deserves credit for that. But, apart from that, he also set up ten other absolutely joyless bastards to strangle every game they played in, and that's where the philosophical distinction lies - and that's why Argentina were so ordinary outside of Maradona.

BrainOfLevy said:
Poch is more towards the 'think of your own team not the opposition' end, although definitely more in the centre. Reason I say this - Liverpool away. Every bottom half team stifles Liverpool by dropping deep, it's almost a sure thing. But we played our usual way, gave Mane space and what happened, happened.
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True, but I would also point to Arsenal away as a counter to that - we set up very differently to how we'd been setting up prior to that game (I think that was the first time we used a three-man back line this season), nullified their offensive advantages (Ozil roaming and drawing players away for Sanchez to maraud through, link up with the striker and go 2 v 2 against centre-backs in a four-man back line) and then played our own game as the second half wore on. Poch goes both left and right, as befits a Bielsa disciple - but can you perhaps think of other examples where we just played regardless of our opponent? I'm trying to, but I can't think of a sequence where we played the same way against big and small sides without *any* changes (in a Menottist fashion - like we regularly did under Harry) - conversely, I can recall that even in the big games (like against Chelsea this season), we've usually utilised an expertly-spotted opposition weakness (like Alli ghosting in behind their short right centre-back/wing-back combo in Azpilicueta and Moses) to gain the upper hand.

@greatwhitenorf - I don't know much about base jazz outside of Miles Davis and other mainstream artists - but I got some surprisingly great tunes out of Snarky Puppy, so thanks, mate. ;) Picked up a few from Culcha Vulcha, and I'll definitely give more of their work a more thorough listen when I get the time. As for Poch being his own man with his own set of tools and challenges to work with in a modern age very different to Menotti's or Bilardo's (as you're asserting), I sort of agree in that he hasn't explicitly defined himself as either a Menottist or a Bilardist, and seems to prefer the ambiguity in a manner that bodes well for someone hoping to be recognized on their own terms down the line. However, at the same time, his more successful Argentine contemporaries (Sampaoli and Simeone) have definitely come down on opposite sides, which speaks well of the relevance of the Menotti-Bilardo divide even today (Simeone publicly admits to being a disciple of Bilardo, and Sampaoli's talked about his allegiance to Menotti many times). They're both Bielsa disciples, but if the divide is relevant enough for them to identify with, it shouldn't be beneath Poch.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Yep, and Menotti *hated* that. When it came to the 'Hand of GHod' goal in particular, he said that he was repulsed by the fact that people didn't think the way Argentina won the game was unedifying - indeed, the fact that people said 'great!' and that they thought it even better that the goal was so unfair and unjust sickened him.

For Menotti, a lot of the game came down to its intangible spirit, its ethos as an endeavour that united people in a common pursuit as opposed to an endeavour which pitted people against each other (as Bilardo saw it). Bilardo got Maradona to perform miracles in 1986 because he set his team up precisely to give Maradona as much free space and time as possible (a 3-5-1-1 with Maradona roaming behind the striker - a *big* departure from his approach prior to the WC). So, in a sense, Maradona doing well in that WC was because Bilardo treated him like AVB treated Bale, and he deserves credit for that. But, apart from that, he also set up ten other absolutely joyless bastards to strangle every game they played in, and that's where the philosophical distinction lies - and that's why Argentina were so ordinary outside of Maradona.



True, but I would also point to Arsenal away as a counter to that - we set up very differently to how we'd been setting up prior to that game (I think that was the first time we used a three-man back line this season), nullified their offensive advantages (Ozil roaming and drawing players away for Sanchez to maraud through, link up with the striker and go 2 v 2 against centre-backs in a four-man back line) and then played our own game as the second half wore on. Poch goes both left and right, as befits a Bielsa disciple - but can you perhaps think of other examples where we just played regardless of our opponent? I'm trying to, but I can't think of a sequence where we played the same way against big and small sides without *any* changes (in a Menottist fashion - like we regularly did under Harry) - conversely, I can recall that even in the big games (like against Chelsea this season), we've usually utilised an expertly-spotted opposition weakness (like Alli ghosting in behind their short right centre-back/wing-back combo in Azpilicueta and Moses) to gain the upper hand.

@greatwhitenorf - I don't know much about base jazz outside of Miles Davis and other mainstream artists - but I got some surprisingly great tunes out of Snarky Puppy, so thanks, mate. ;) Picked up a few from Culcha Vulcha, and I'll definitely give more of their work a more thorough listen when I get the time. As for Poch being his own man with his own set of tools and challenges to work with in a modern age very different to Menotti's or Bilardo's (as you're asserting), I sort of agree in that he hasn't explicitly defined himself as either a Menottist or a Bilardist, and seems to prefer the ambiguity in a manner that bodes well for someone hoping to be recognized on their own terms down the line. However, at the same time, his more successful Argentine contemporaries (Sampaoli and Simeone) have definitely come down on opposite sides, which speaks well of the relevance of the Menotti-Bilardo divide even today (Simeone publicly admits to being a disciple of Bilardo, and Sampaoli's talked about his allegiance to Menotti many times). They're both Bielsa disciples, but if the divide is relevant enough for them to identify with, it shouldn't be beneath Poch.
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Don't forget Liverpool were on an awful run and maybe Poch fancied his chances. Hey we were brick at executing our normal game and lost (tactics may have been a big part) but pool played their game very well for once
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Don't forget Liverpool were on an awful run and maybe Poch fancied his chances. Hey we were brick at executing our normal game and lost (tactics may have been a big part) but pool played their game very well for once
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One of those days where such was the resolve of the opposition it was always going to be a mighty challenge to put out their fire.

.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Don't forget Liverpool were on an awful run and maybe Poch fancied his chances. Hey we were brick at executing our normal game and lost (tactics may have been a big part) but pool played their game very well for once
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To be fair, they've usually played well against most top sides this season, iirc. Something about top sides affording Liverpool more space and time to play their game in dangerous areas. So maybe he should have switched it up a bit to counter that.
 
According to the highest-rated definition on Urban Dictionary, "sexy" means: "To consistently and inevitably fail to live up to expectations. To bottle it."

As has happened on so many occasions, that happened again last season when Mauricio Pochettino's side crumbled under the pressure of their unexpected title push and fell behind their old rivals Arsenal at the last in what felt like an inevitable collapse. Pochettino admitted he wanted to "kill" his players.

But something very special is happening at White Hart Lane: Spurs aren't very sexy at all. Actually, on current form, they are the best team in the league. Could Pochettino be on the cusp of an era of success? There are remarkable similarities with a previous Premier League great...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...ttinos-spurs-could-new-old-manchester-united/
 
I'm a bit wary of all this praise atm; it is well warranted but in the past it would just lead us to quickly become the butt of jokes again; we have never won 7 PL games in a row so i'm scared we are going to drop points tomorrow vs Bournemouth.

If we don't then i will really start to believe...please keep my faith in hand Spurs. Please!
 
NaijaSpurs said:
According to the highest-rated definition on Urban Dictionary, "sexy" means: "To consistently and inevitably fail to live up to expectations. To bottle it."

As has happened on so many occasions, that happened again last season when Mauricio Pochettino's side crumbled under the pressure of their unexpected title push and fell behind their old rivals Arsenal at the last in what felt like an inevitable collapse. Pochettino admitted he wanted to "kill" his players.

But something very special is happening at White Hart Lane: Spurs aren't very sexy at all. Actually, on current form, they are the best team in the league. Could Pochettino be on the cusp of an era of success? There are remarkable similarities with a previous Premier League great...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...ttinos-spurs-could-new-old-manchester-united/
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There are certainly a lot of parallels with the dominant Ferguson Utd team but one thing that is not the same is the level of competition. Unfortunately it is harder to win the league now because the top of the league is awash with so much cash.

Obviously Leicester was an aberration (some might say an abomination), but only the truly blinkered could deny their win was a once in a generation fluke. So ignoring them, which I do as much as I can, the general pattern of recent PL titles has followed the money for the most part. If you remove the two 'skip the queue' clubs, City and Chelsea, Spurs would already be in period of relative success and may even have a trophy or two in the bag before now. But as much as I would like to, you can't ignore those clubs.

I don't believe the old Man Utd template is still a title winning formula in this period. If Spurs were to win the title we would be bucking the financial trend, as Leicester did. It would be a remarkable achievement.
 
Rorschach said:
There are certainly a lot of parallels with the dominant Ferguson Utd team but one thing that is not the same is the level of competition. Unfortunately it is harder to win the league now because the top of the league is awash with so much cash.

Obviously Leicester was an aberration (some might say an abomination), but only the truly blinkered could deny their win was a once in a generation fluke. So ignoring them, which I do as much as I can, the general pattern of recent PL titles has followed the money for the most part. If you remove the two 'skip the queue' clubs, City and Chelsea, Spurs would already be in period of relative success and may even have a trophy or two in the bag before now. But as much as I would like to, you can't ignore those clubs.

I don't believe the old Man Utd template is still a title winning formula in this period. If Spurs were to win the title we would be bucking the financial trend, as Leicester did. It would be a remarkable achievement.
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Whilst agreeing it's much harder for all the reasons you cite we are currently proving it's far from beyond us. Someone put up a stat the other day showing that since August 2015 our record is comfortably the best in the PL, with second best Chelsea currently trailing us seven points behind.
 
Since August 2015 our record is comfortably the best in the PL, with second best Chelsea currently trailing us seven points behind.

Selective stats surely - Chelsea's poor form last season was a fluke too
 
Spur of the moment said:
Whilst agreeing it's much harder for all the reasons you cite we are currently proving it's far from beyond us. Someone put up a stat the other day showing that since August 2015 our record is comfortably the best in the PL, with second best Chelsea currently trailing us seven points behind.
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That was me in the stats thread. Chelsea were 11 points behind us having scored 21 goals less.
 
lurker of old said:
Since August 2015 our record is comfortably the best in the PL, with second best Chelsea currently trailing us seven points behind.

Selective stats surely - Chelsea's poor form last season was a fluke too
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Their 14 points behind us over the last two season

Currently 7 ahead and finished last year 21 behind so a 14 point difference
 
I was sat very close to El Poco today. 3 seats back, 3 seats left of the press seats.

Every now and then he would bellow "MOOORRROOOOOOAAAGH" or "MAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHAAAROOOOOOO" at Dier or Son

I think it means "press harder" in Argentinian.

His trousers were exceptionally well cut.
 
Bullet said:
I was sat very close to El Poco today. 3 seats back, 3 seats left of the press seats.

Every now and then he would bellow "MOOORRROOOOOOAAAGH" or "MAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHAAAROOOOOOO" at Dier or Son

I think it means "press harder" in Argentinian.

His trousers were exceptionally well cut.
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At times he was louder than the crowd
 
Tottenham have recorded their best-ever Premier League season at White Hart Lane with two games to spare following their victory over Bournemouth.

Saturday's 4-0 win was also Spurs' 12th straight league victory at home, matching their longest winning run in a single season back in 1919-20.

Back in 1987, their winning streak stretched to 14 over two seasons, a feat which Spurs can match if they beat Arsenal and Manchester United in their final two games at home this campaign.

But now on 47 points from their games at White Hart Lane, Spurs have eclipsed their 2009-10 season with two games to spare.
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http://www.skysports.com/football/n...king-premier-league-season-at-white-hart-lane
C9dWE_IWAAEl27o.jpg
 
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