Maggie

[Gilzeantoscore]

Equally, a number of people, probably greater in number than those that are mentioned by yourself have jumped on a bandwagon they know nothing about or lived through either. They have listened to rants at the dinner table and have made their mind up from there. I mean really, 20 yr olds joining a party to celebrate her death? Its actually more macaronic than the actual act of the party.

How condescending! So, according to you anyone who opposes this person must be macaronic. The same argument, could just as easily be directed at you. Clearly you have been brainwashed by the tory dominated press and their blantant attempt to white wash this woman's political and economic legacy.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Reading the last couple of pages have convinced me of the following.


1) Some people only see economics, not humanity.
2) The 'leftie' name-calling is just sad.
3) Most people commenting on Thatcherss legacy as a positive did not live THROUGH it.
4) Gordinho's story from a reporter pal is by no means an isolated one.
5) If people do not genuinely understand that changing the way a country has operated for decades upon decades in 11 years of sudden, abrupt, unapologetic and uncaring leadership is SOCIOPATHIC, then it is my turn to feel sorry for the human race.


As for the 'she was elected for three terms in a row' see 'greedy sheeple led to the altar of worship via trumped up jingoism' for the reason that happened.

None of her 'supporters' seems to fully comprehend the methods she employed. Here's a test; how many of you know what the letters SPG stand for?

He was Vvyian's hamster, wasn't he? \o/

 

[Crawley]

Wasn't going to post in this one anymore, but......................and please remember, at the start of the thread i made it clear I wasn't bothered either way about Thatchers passing or her policies,............................but both sides of the argument here need to stand back, re-read what you are writing, view it from the opposite stance, and then have a little think.

You are ALL posting condescending thoughts, while accusing the "other side" of just that. Seriously.

Some of the pro-Thatcher stuff is taking no account whatsoever of what some may have been through as a direct result of her policies. While some of the anti-stuff makes a lot of assumptions about people and their lives and what their thought processes should be based on how the "left" (couldn't think of a better word) view it.

There are some down-right patronizing posts above which actually have no bearing on the period under discussion. BOTH sides.........I'm not in favour either way.

Anyway.

Most will ignore this post, so carry on. :lol:

 

[Crawley]

Oh, and SPG stands for "those evil fudgers who tried to baton me for sitting on the bonnet of my own bloody car during the riots in Croydon one summer night in the 80s."

Or, Special patrol Group for short.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

I think an unstated legacy of Thatcher is that public trust in the Tories, is very low. They should have crushed Labour in the last election, but didn't. Instead they have become saddled with the Lib Dem's in a minority government. The public realise that the Tories are only about the economic bottom line and damn the consequences, as all tories are emotionally and socially stunted This is the policy pathway, the Conservative Party would seek to implement again, if they ever got the chance. I doubt the pulic will fall for it however...once bitten, twice shy.

Part of this post was a tinkle take of the 'other side' and their constant generalizing and stereotyping. Thought I'd give some of their own back. Crawley, I don't really believe that ALL tories are emotionally and socially stunted.

 

[scaramanga]

I think an unstated legacy of Thatcher is that public trust in the Tories, is very low. They should have crushed Labour in the last election, but didn't. Instead they have become saddled with the Lib Dem's in a minority government. The public realise that the Tories are only about the economic bottom line and damn the consequences, as all tories are emotionally and socially stunted This is the policy pathway, the Conservative Party would seek to implement again, if they ever got the chance. I doubt the public will fall for it however...once bitten, twice shy.

WTF? They're a political party, I want them to run the country not give me a fudging hug.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

WTF? They're a political party, I want them to run the country not give me a fudging hug.

Ha,ha.\o/

 

[scaramanga]

Ha,ha.\o/

:ross:

Just saw your second post, bit that one a little soon!

 

[Sheffield Spur]

Oh, and SPG stands for "those evil fudgers who tried to baton me for sitting on the bonnet of my own bloody car during the riots in Croydon one summer night in the 80s."

Or, Special patrol Group for short.

Oh wern't they lovely! The Special Patrol Group (SPG) with their SUS powers (search under suspicion). That meant that they could basically pick on anyone they chose for any reason they chose, at whatever time or how often. So paranoia ruled!

Crawley obviously looked furtive, and had the 'wrong' colour car. Or maybe Crawley had a Ferrari and the Old Bill were jealous. :lol:

Anyways, the much better memory was the mighty SPG in the Young Ones, as already mentioned.

For your delectation.........


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvrJT3-VIJ4

 

[Crawley]

Oh wern't they lovely! The Special Patrol Group (SPG) with their SUS powers (search under suspicion). That meant that they could basically pick on anyone they chose for any reason they chose, at whatever time or how often. So paranoia ruled!

Crawley obviously looked furtive, and had the 'wrong' colour car. Or maybe Crawley had a Ferrari and the Old Bill were jealous. :lol:

Anyways, the much better memory was the mighty SPG in the Young Ones, as already mentioned.

For your delectation.........


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvrJT3-VIJ4

It was a bloody Cortina, FFS :lol:

 

[Gordinho]

It was a bloody Cortina, FFS :lol:

It wasn't before the SPG bent you over the bonnet and tapped you on the head with a truncheon Blair Peach stylie.

 

[SteveAWOL]

...
As it is a football site I will add an analogy. The most hated and despised figure in English football is surely Alex Ferguson. A vile human being, clearly a bully, manipulative, prepared to use any means necessary to make sure he wins. And he does. Why do I hate him? Because deep down, deep down I wish he was manager of my club.

I'd say that Thatcher was more akin to Wenger, as both have predominantly southern middle-class fan bases and both had around a decade at the top of their respective professions before their careers entered the doldrums.

What are your personal experiences remembering her? When I lived in the UK she was very popular among people I conversed with. For sure she wasn't popular in certain areas of the country, but from what I could make out they were socialist areas anyway so she was never going to be popular there no matter what she did.
...

I spent my childhood in leafy, very Conservative, Buckinghamshire during the Thatcher years and even there she was (and remains) a divisive figure. Essentially, those of us whose families were employed in the NHS / state education / manufacturing industry disliked her whilst my mates whose families were involved in the financial services sector / police / armed forces adored her.

As DubaiSpur says, Thatcher received a popularity boost from winning the Falklands War which, combined with the utter disarray on the left wing of British politics, lead to her first re-election. Despite these factors the Tory vote shrunk from 44% in 1979 to 42% in 1983 but that lead to a parliamentary landslide thanks to the split in support between Labour (29%) and the SDP-Liberal Alliance (25%).

The divide on the left wing of British politics allowed her to comfortably win a further 2 terms but nowadays the right wing vote is becoming almost as fragmented thanks to the rise of UKIP, so the days of landslide victories are probably a distant memory.

 

[Crawley]

It wasn't before the SPG bent you over the bonnet and tapped you on the head with a truncheon Blair Peach stylie.

Blair Peach.......remember the furore about him?

 

[AuroRaman]

Wasn't going to post in this one anymore, but......................and please remember, at the start of the thread i made it clear I wasn't bothered either way about Thatchers passing or her policies,............................but both sides of the argument here need to stand back, re-read what you are writing, view it from the opposite stance, and then have a little think.

You are ALL posting condescending thoughts, while accusing the "other side" of just that. Seriously.

Some of the pro-Thatcher stuff is taking no account whatsoever of what some may have been through as a direct result of her policies. While some of the anti-stuff makes a lot of assumptions about people and their lives and what their thought processes should be based on how the "left" (couldn't think of a better word) view it.

There are some down-right patronizing posts above which actually have no bearing on the period under discussion. BOTH sides.........I'm not in favour either way.

Anyway.

Most will ignore this post, so carry on. :lol:

Great post.

 

[Craig_J]

Equally, a number of people, probably greater in number than those that are mentioned by yourself have jumped on a bandwagon they know nothing about or lived through either. They have listened to rants at the dinner table and have made their mind up from there. I mean really, 20 yr olds joining a party to celebrate her death? Its actually more macaronic than the actual act of the party.

That's an unfair comment to make. I'm 19, I still have a right to an opinion. After all, Thatcher rose child poverty to the highest levels it's ever been at and I and many other people my age have grown up in that. When you grow up with your parents working as hard as they can but still struggling along to afford food for you every week, and you witness your mother in tears because it's becoming so hard to make simple ends meet, I think it kind of does give my generation a right to an opinion.

Living in the moment of the government is important yes but I think your forget that the work a government does carrys on much longer after that and ends up affecting people who wern't even around then.

 

[Crawley]

That's an unfair comment to make. I'm 19, I still have a right to an opinion. After all, Thatcher rose child poverty to the highest levels it's ever been at and I and many other people my age have grown up in that. When you grow up with your parents working as hard as they can but still struggling along to afford food for you every week, and you witness your mother in tears because it's becoming so hard to make simple ends meet, I think it kind of does give my generation a right to an opinion.

Living in the moment of the government is important yes but I think your forget that the work a government does carrys on much longer after that and ends up affecting people who wern't even around then.

Couple of things here (bear in mind my neutral stance, again)

1) Have you got stats to prove that claim?
2) When was Thatcher last in power, and have successive governments (both sides) not had plenty of chance to ammend this issue?



Also, and please note, this is not aimed at you personally, the problem many hard working, tax paying individuals have with people "struggling to put food on the table" is they see these same people smoking 40 a day, getting slashed up frequently down the pub, and possesing better material goods than themselves.

But, that does not detract from the fact that there are genuinely people out there who DO struggle to support their families or indeed themselves.
This is where the whole issue of taking care of our own first should now come into play.

But that is another topic again.

 

[Mulletperm]

Couple of things here (bear in mind my neutral stance, again)

1) Have you got stats to prove that claim?
2) When was Thatcher last in power, and have successive governments (both sides) not had plenty of chance to ammend this issue?



Also, and please note, this is not aimed at you personally, the problem many hard working, tax paying individuals have with people "struggling to put food on the table" is they see these same people smoking 40 a day, getting slashed up frequently down the pub, and possesing better material goods than themselves.

But, that does not detract from the fact that there are genuinely people out there who DO struggle to support their families or indeed themselves.
This is where the whole issue of taking care of our own first should now come into play.

But that is another topic again.

Great post. All aspects of it.

 

[thfcsteff]

I know where you are going with that one Steff but the SPG were established in 1961 and disbanded for the TSG in 1987. Saying that too, one of the biggest controversies involving the SPG happened in Southall in April 1979 - Before she was elected!

I am well aware of the shortcomings of the SPG/TSG in terms of heavy handedness, sus law although that was repealed by Thatcher in 1981, targetting of groups by profiling etc but these are all things that would have been occurring throughout the previous administrations too so to my mind it would be unfair and a slight twisting of reality to suggest that the SPG raised their game more under Maggie.

How ever, I do enjoy your posts on this subject as well as football related matters, someone with which a good debate can be had.

Fair play mate, that I did not know. I grew up seeing them in enormous prominence one day as a lad and immediately thought they were her legacy! As for 'the incident' I remember it well as I went on Anti Nazi League marches and wore my ANL badge to home & away games on my blue v-neck sweater with Spurs crest sewn on! I'll give you the election one too, but let's be fair, we are talking literally 3 weeks between the two occurances and by that time Thatcher had already got her claws in so-to-speak (those massive Saatchi & Saatchi billboards)...

To the second bold point, absolutely, I agree that good debate with people we don't always agree with can be an excellent thing and everyone comes away with some new perspectives! So yes mate, happy to discuss and debate! again, appreciate this post as I learnt something I didn't know.

 

[thfcsteff]

It wasn't before the SPG bent you over the bonnet and tapped you on the head with a truncheon Blair Peach stylie.

I believe one of the excuses I read about that was that 'Blair Peach's skull was found to be abnormally thin'...indeed, it was one of the excuses!

 

[Gordinho]

I believe one of the excuses I read about that was that 'Blair Peach's skull was found to be abnormally thin'...indeed, it was one of the excuses!

To be honest Peach was asking for it, he was a provocative bastard. What sort of bloke comes over here stealing our jobs, educating our children and going on protest marches without even having a skull thick enough to take the weight of a police radio used as a cosh while the copper holds it by the aerial?

I digress, as has already been mentioned Maggie wasn't in power, they were Uncle Jim's Bootboys at the time.