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leedspurs is going to explode hahaha

You can't help yourself with science can you, nobody in the world denies climate change, it was warmer today than tonight, so yes climate change is obvious and clear. <---How much are you willing to bet? The other thing is that it does get colder in other places, as the planet is a closed system and equilibrium must always be reached.

Now, "global warming", science has not proved this at all, the IPCC is a stooge for additional taxation and creating new boom green markets they (or rather their corporate funders, Gore the first green billionaire in his 8Bed Indoor Swimming Pool, Helipad Mansion, give me a break!) are behind IMO. Now governments have broken the psychological resistance to ?ú1.40+ litre prices, highly questionable peak oil claims (made by the oil producers) ''it's gonna cost you, there is not much left...''. With most of these issues, if you stand against this behemoth you risk your career being ruined. <---Everything here is standard, right-wing gonad*s. As an aside, are you telling me that humans have not had an adverse effect on climate conditions over the past two centuries? Do you really think China is going crazy to research and produce solar panels as part of some ridiculous conspiracy?

Scientists against global warming;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tream_scientific_assessment_of_global_warming <----also known as the 'List of idiots who will do anything for publicity and money'

"inadequacies of current global climate modeling. Their views on climate change are usually described in more detail in their biographical articles.

Freeman Dyson, Professor Emeritus of the School of Natural Sciences, Institute for Advanced Study; Fellow of the Royal Society said in a 2011 email exchange with a journalist: "First, the computer models are very good at solving the equations of fluid dynamics but very bad at describing the real world. The real world is full of things like clouds and vegetation and soil and dust which the models describe very poorly. Second, we do not know whether the recent changes in climate are on balance doing more harm than good. The strongest warming is in cold places like Greenland. More people die from cold in winter than die from heat in summer. Third, there are many other causes of climate change besides human activities, as we know from studying the past. Fourth, the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is strongly coupled with other carbon reservoirs in the biosphere, vegetation and top-soil, which are as large or larger. It is misleading to consider only the atmosphere and ocean, as the climate models do, and ignore the other reservoirs. Fifth, the biological effects of CO2 in the atmosphere are beneficial, both to food crops and to natural vegetation. The biological effects are better known and probably more important than the climatic effects. Sixth, summing up the other five reasons, the climate of the earth is an immensely complicated system and nobody is close to understanding it."[7]

Richard Lindzen, Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Atmospheric Science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and member of the National Academy of Sciences has made his views clear in several newspaper articles:"We are quite confident (1) that global mean temperature is about 0.5 ??C higher than it was a century ago; (2) that atmospheric levels of CO2 have risen over the past two centuries; and (3) that CO2 is a greenhouse gas whose increase is likely to warm the earth (one of many, the most important being water vapor and clouds). But – and I cannot stress this enough – we are not in a position to confidently attribute past climate change to CO2 or to forecast what the climate will be in the future.".[8] "[T]here has been no question whatsoever that CO2 is an infrared absorber (i.e., a greenhouse gas – albeit a minor one), and its increase should theoretically contribute to warming. Indeed, if all else were kept equal, the increase in CO2 should have led to somewhat more warming than has been observed."[9][10]

Nils-Axel M?Ârner, retired head of the Paleogeophysics and Geodynamics department at Stockholm University and former Chairman of the INQUA Commission on Sea Level Changes and Coastal Evolution (1999–2003) said in 2005 evidence given to a select committee: "In conclusion, observational data do not support the sea level rise scenario. On the contrary, they seriously contradict it. Therefore we should free the world from the condemnation of becoming extensively flooded in the near future."[11]

Garth Paltridge, Visiting Fellow ANU and retired Chief Research Scientist, CSIRO Division of Atmospheric Research and retired Director of the Institute of the Antarctic Cooperative Research Centre said in his 2009 book: "There are good and straightforward scientific reasons to believe that the burning of fossil fuel and consequent increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide will lead to an increase in the average temperature of the world above that which would otherwise be the case. Whether the increase will be large enough to be noticeable is still an unanswered question."[12]

Philip Stott, professor emeritus of biogeography at the University of London said in a 2007 opinion piece: "It is claimed, on the basis of computer models, that this should lead to 1.1 – 6.4 C warming. What is rarely noted is that we are already three-quarters of the way into this in terms of radiative forcing, but we have only witnessed a 0.6 (+/-0.2) C rise, and there is no reason to suppose that all of this is due to humans."[13]

Hendrik Tennekes, retired Director of Research, Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute said in a 2009 essay: "The blind adherence to the harebrained idea that climate models can generate 'realistic' simulations of climate is the principal reason why I remain a climate skeptic."[14]
"

You know what, forget climate change for a second. Are you still defending the burning of fossil fuels over researching new, more ecologically-friendly ways of producing electricity? You still BREATHE that brick in. Go to LA, or better yet, go to Beijing; you won't be able to breathe without a face mask. I think that people sometimes get caught up in this whole 'controversy' of climate change without regard to what we're actually trying to accomplish here: a HEALTHIER, more sustainable planet.
There's definitely cycles (ebbs and flows) in climate, but climate is a vastly complex system to study, and I'm no expert by any means. I'm just glad you didn't mention climate-gate, because that is the ultimate flimflam of flimflams.

Again, I'm presenting the American perspective here. I don't really know what views on certain scientific truths are in the UK so I won't comment on that.
 
Apart from my views on europe i think a lot of my views are to the left.
Immgration - been good for the country and should continue but with some sensible caps.
Foreign policy - would stick my head in the sand and say we should not get involved in another war unless we are attacked here in blighty.
Gays - happy for them to marry and adopt children.
Prison - bit right wing here cos i would build more of them.
Europe - pull the hell out as soon as possible, but the are even some labour and liberals that think this as well.

As for religion well there all flimflam but if people want to belive that flimflam let them, freedom of choice and all that.
Benefits - maybe quite right wing as they should be cut right back but i think that would make people go and work which is a good thing for them, so if its good for them that makes it liberal right?
 
When I first started reading about these things some years ago I gave ?ú100 for each family member to a carbon offsetting charity for christmas, to effectively make me and all my family carbon neutral for the year, so I was drawn in as much as most and had/have a vested interest in it being correct to protect my world view, but I believe it was wrong and I wasted nealy a grand!

Who says the NASA data is accurate and the Met Office isn't?

If it is a misrepresentation of the data show the raw data from The Met and how it has been misrepresented.

The world did warm, it has now stopped........please explain the Little Ice Age and the medieval warm period?


2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png


The earth warmed up a thousand years ago, then cooled, then warmed again.....and this goes back 100,000 years.....when there was NO fudging INDUSTRY!!

What?
 
You know what, forget climate change for a second. Are you still defending the burning of fossil fuels over researching new, more ecologically-friendly ways of producing electricity? You still BREATHE that brick in. Go to LA, or better yet, go to Beijing; you won't be able to breathe without a face mask. I think that people sometimes get caught up in this whole 'controversy' of climate change without regard to what we're actually trying to accomplish here: a HEALTHIER, more sustainable planet.
There's definitely cycles (ebbs and flows) in climate, but climate is a vastly complex system to study, and I'm no expert by any means. I'm just glad you didn't mention climate-gate, because that is the ultimate flimflam of flimflams.

Again, I'm presenting the American perspective here. I don't really know what views on certain scientific truths are in the UK so I won't comment on that.


Dude, take a breath, I make and gift orgonite (the stuff I get heckled for on here by Scara et al), hence my username 'Gifter', I place small pieces of organic and inorganic matter (in terms of organic chemistry) near areas of EMF/ELF (as I believe orgonite neutralises the emissions of cell phone masts etc), to date I have gifted around 6000 pieces and have made and given away about 20 Cloudbusters, at a combined cost to me of around ?ú6K in the past 7 years, so (whether this works or not) it is unquestionable that the motives of my heart are of a righteous nature (though of course on a footi forum, the sanity of my mind may be called into question of course, que sera!). I believe that countless clean energies have been bought by corporations to be held down (researchers warned that their families lives may be endangered if they continue their research etc), I am not supporting any such thing (that petrol, nuclear energy is good and we should stick with them etc).

You are buying into a false paradigm, that if you don't believe in global warming and peak oil you not care about finding alternatives or the environment in general.

''views on certain scientific truths'' you stating it does not make it so, as some of the scientific researchers above that I quoted are saying, higher temperature = more precipitation, which historically has been seen as good, but you wouldn't see me stooping to a retort of ''you want colder temperatures, so there will be less rain and more starvation in arid countries'' (well OK maybe I just did!), yet your same science supports that model...
 
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Who says the NASA data is accurate and the Met Office isn't?

If it is a misrepresentation of the data show the raw data from The Met and how it has been misrepresented.

The world did warm, it has now stopped........please explain the Little Ice Age and the medieval warm period?


2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png


The earth warmed up a thousand years ago, then cooled, then warmed again.....and this goes back 100,000 years.....when there was NO fudging INDUSTRY!!

What?

Plus the IPCC conveniently left our the mini ice age and another big drop in it's hockstick modelling. That for me is the biggest joke of this all, that all this ''it's proven scientific fact'' is actually based on computer models, yet the met office can't even get this weekends weather right FFS!!!
 
That Mail report on right wing/left winers is a little out of date

"The study, by academics at Brock University in Ontario, Canada, used information from two UK studies from 1958 and 1970 , where several thousand children were assessed for intelligence at age 10 and 11, and then asked political questions aged 33.
The 1958 National Child Development involved 4,267 men and 4,537 women born in 1958"

Would this by any chance be children brought up by anti-German war surviving parents by any chance???
 
Shocker - Left wing "scientist" in breaking we-less-prejudiced-than-you discovery.

Who would have thought it ?

Perhaps he should have done some "science" research in Europe regarding in which groups the most vile anti-gay views can be found. However if he did conclude "low childhood intelligence" in those groups, he himself would be jailed for racism. Oh, the irony.

Still - well done for being an academic and doing a "science" project concluding, that are specific group is prejudiced. It doesn't get much more contradictory than that per se.
 
thought i would give a link up here from the guardian and charlie brooker, sometimes he gets on my nerves but he is pretty funny and spot on here

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/feb/05/daily-mail-calls-rightwingers-stupid

Funny write-up. Kind of what you would expect, although was their use of 'tea party' deliberate there (referencing the tea party movement in the US)?

Actually, the Tea Party is a prime example of right-wing nuttiness. They are generally extremists, and many were the ones calling for Obama's birth certificate and claiming other ridiculous things. What's the view of the Tea Party from yonder?

DanishWhite: True, there are some 'internal politics' in the process of getting funding and grant money, but it's not as bad as the ridiculous claims that people make about climate scientists. Some people must think scientists live in giant mansions with all the "grant money and public funding" they receive. Nothing could be further from the truth. Only the most prolific and successful scientists make good money, and that's a drop in the bucket compared to what other professionals make (we're still only talking six-figures here). On top of that, conducting science properly is expensive.
When I was working in the neuroscience lab, we frequently ran MRI studies on our subjects. The MRI scanner alone cost $3m, more or less. On top of that, it cost roughly $1.5-2k per hour of use. That money isn't going to pad some cushy scientist's gold-coin vault.

The results of a properly-conducted scientific study cannot be racist because a study is by nature objective and based on evidence. It would only be racist to take those claims, skew them to fit your own agenda, and parade your "altered results" around as if the scientists had come to the same conclusions.
 
You know what, forget climate change for a second. Are you still defending the burning of fossil fuels over researching new, more ecologically-friendly ways of producing electricity? You still BREATHE that brick in. Go to LA, or better yet, go to Beijing; you won't be able to breathe without a face mask. I think that people sometimes get caught up in this whole 'controversy' of climate change without regard to what we're actually trying to accomplish here: a HEALTHIER, more sustainable planet.
There's definitely cycles (ebbs and flows) in climate, but climate is a vastly complex system to study, and I'm no expert by any means. I'm just glad you didn't mention climate-gate, because that is the ultimate flimflam of flimflams.

Again, I'm presenting the American perspective here. I don't really know what views on certain scientific truths are in the UK so I won't comment on that.

Oh really?

I'm not sure Anthony Watts would agree.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/02/...-doesnt-fit-the-mannian-narrative/#more-56014

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/02/02/terrifying-new-book-about-climate-change/

The second one particularly should be read by everyone.
 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here, but I didn't mean to imply that the perspective is exclusive to America. I am simply trying to has out things as far as I know because I honestly have no idea of how the rest of the world views this.
However, I didn't get to read much of those articles because they seem fishy to me, but he's basing his conclusions off a book from the 70s and a smattering of scientific sources (including at least one that we already mentioned in here that milo addressed). I will actually just go one step further and say that the author is a nut that dabbles in conspiracy theories in his spare time (and he has a lot of spare time).
In fact, the more and more I read the article, the more and more I realize I was perhaps giving it too much respect. It's actually a cartful of donkey brick.

But this one statement really gets me going: "In other words: Even if we do experience warming, it makes the world a nicer place."
Both cold and heat both kill plenty of people every year, but I'm sure moving towards one extreme will only exacerbate the amount of deaths that happen on that end of the spectrum. Again, I love how people remove pollution from the equation here when they discuss climate change. Regardless of climate, do you really want to continue putting pollutants out into the air? Furthermore, is China on the road to disaster by investing in and pursuing new, clean energies like solar? They are currently outpacing the US in terms of R&D for solar panels, and obviously can make them cheaper there than anywhere else. Do you honestly think they would commit "economic suicide".
 
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here, but I didn't mean to imply that the perspective is exclusive to America. I am simply trying to has out things as far as I know because I honestly have no idea of how the rest of the world views this.
However, I didn't get to read much of those articles because they seem fishy to me, but he's basing his conclusions off a book from the 70s and a smattering of scientific sources (including at least one that we already mentioned in here that milo addressed). I will actually just go one step further and say that the author is a nut that dabbles in conspiracy theories in his spare time (and he has a lot of spare time).
In fact, the more and more I read the article, the more and more I realize I was perhaps giving it too much respect. It's actually a cartful of donkey brick.

But this one statement really gets me going: "In other words: Even if we do experience warming, it makes the world a nicer place."
Both cold and heat both kill plenty of people every year, but I'm sure moving towards one extreme will only exacerbate the amount of deaths that happen on that end of the spectrum. Again, I love how people remove pollution from the equation here when they discuss climate change. Regardless of climate, do you really want to continue putting pollutants out into the air? Furthermore, is China on the road to disaster by investing in and pursuing new, clean energies like solar? They are currently outpacing the US in terms of R&D for solar panels, and obviously can make them cheaper there than anywhere else. Do you honestly think they would commit "economic suicide".

So you didn't read the articles. You attack the author ad hominem.

The point is this. Whether the potential problem is cooling or warming, the solutions advocated are the same.

As far as pollution is concerned, your EPA classified carbon dioxide (essential for life on this planet) as a pollutant didn't they?

Man made global warming/climate change is the biggest confidence trick ever perpetrated. I look forward to the prime movers behind it: Gore, Hansen et al receiving their comeuppance.
 
So you didn't read the articles. You attack the author ad hominem.

The point is this. Whether the potential problem is cooling or warming, the solutions advocated are the same.

As far as pollution is concerned, your EPA classified carbon dioxide (essential for life on this planet) as a pollutant didn't they?

Man made global warming/climate change is the biggest confidence trick ever perpetrated. I look forward to the prime movers behind it: Gore, Hansen et al receiving their comeuppance.

So you didn't read my post. I said "the more and more I read the article...", because at one point the horsebrick became a sticking point.
I actually find it logical that the solution for either warming or cooling would be the same. However, in terms of the EPA, they are targeting 'rising' CO2 levels. They are not purporting that ALL CO2 should be eliminated from the planet. Is that what you seriously think they are advocating?
What are your thoughts on coal mines and the burning of other fossil fuels?
 
So you didn't read my post. I said "the more and more I read the article...", because at one point the horsebrick became a sticking point.
I actually find it logical that the solution for either warming or cooling would be the same. However, in terms of the EPA, they are targeting 'rising' CO2 levels. They are not purporting that ALL CO2 should be eliminated from the planet. Is that what you seriously think they are advocating?
What are your thoughts on coal mines and the burning of other fossil fuels?

CO2 is a trace gas. It constitutes a tiny part of the atmosphere, and is fundamentally benign. CO2 levels have been much higher in the past. CO2 also has no effect on global temperatures, as rising CO2 levels follow rising temperatures, not the converse.

I think that fossil fuels will be replaced by new technology, in time. I don't think however, that the "green" technologies currently available are up to the job.

I also think that the Malthusian fetish for doom mongering is a crock. We are all supposed to have starved by now according to these people. The oil was supposed to have run out as well. The woman who wrote "Silent Spring", Rachel Carson, which led to the banning of DDT, which has led to more deaths from malaria than there were deaths in WW2 since the ban was introduced, should be proud of herself.

Interesting to see that 31,847 American scientists, including 9,029 PHDs, believe that man made global warming is a fiction...

http://www.petitionproject.org/
 
CO2 is a trace gas. It constitutes a tiny part of the atmosphere, and is fundamentally benign. CO2 levels have been much higher in the past. CO2 also has no effect on global temperatures, as rising CO2 levels follow rising temperatures, not the converse.

I think that fossil fuels will be replaced by new technology, in time. I don't think however, that the "green" technologies currently available are up to the job.

I also think that the Malthusian fetish for doom mongering is a crock. We are all supposed to have starved by now according to these people. The oil was supposed to have run out as well. The woman who wrote "Silent Spring", Rachel Carson, which led to the banning of DDT, which has led to more deaths from malaria than there were deaths in WW2 since the ban was introduced, should be proud of herself.

Interesting to see that 31,847 American scientists, including 9,029 PHDs, believe that man made global warming is a fiction...

http://www.petitionproject.org/

What is your proof for CO2 levels rising when temperatures rise? I thought global warming was a hoax, anyway, so if CO2 levels have been rising (which they have been), doesn't that mean they are following a trend of warming?

I don't think anyone could argue that DDT was ever a good thing. I'm sure there are loads of pesticides still out there that are not good for the environment and for consumption, but that's because many regulatory agencies lack the firepower to combat big agriculture.
 
What is your proof for CO2 levels rising when temperatures rise? I thought global warming was a hoax, anyway, so if CO2 levels have been rising (which they have been), doesn't that mean they are following a trend of warming?

I don't think anyone could argue that DDT was ever a good thing. I'm sure there are loads of pesticides still out there that are not good for the environment and for consumption, but that's because many regulatory agencies lack the firepower to combat big agriculture.

Antarctic ice samples. http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-5576670191369613647

Mankind is increasing the level of CO2 in the atmosphere.

I didn't say global warming was a hoax, I said that man made global warming was a hoax.

Millions of people have died from malaria since DDT was banned.

No comment on the thousands of American scientists who refute man made global warming?
 
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Antarctic ice samples. http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-5576670191369613647

Mankind is increasing the level of CO2 in the atmosphere.

I didn't say global warming was a hoax, I said that man made global warming was a hoax.

Millions of people have died from malaria since DDT was banned.

No comment on the thousands of American scientists who refute man made global warming?

...rising CO2 levels follow rising temperatures, not the converse.

OK, so which one is it?

About that petition, a lot of the signatories were from backgrounds other than climate science. The validity of it has also not been independently verified. I don't know much more about it than that, but it seems that it could be a dated list and if you had to ask each of those signatories to re-sign, many of them wouldn't (even if the deceased could sign posthumously). I wouldn't hinge an argument or debate on that petition.
 
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