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Kyle Walker

Modric THFC said:
I don't understand how people think that after 2 years under Poch's training with no improvement Poch can suddenly turn Trippier into a world beater in the 3rd year.
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I don't agree that Trips hasn't improved. When he first came from Burnley I thought he was poor compared to Walks. However, every time he has played during the 2nd half of this season he has played well, and I think that is down to continuous improvement under MoPo.
 
Modric THFC said:
I don't understand how people think that after 2 years under Poch's training with no improvement Poch can suddenly turn Trippier into a world beater in the 3rd year.
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Two years and no improvement? Are you blind?

Trippier was already an outstanding attacking RWB prospect when he arrived from Burnley but he has been denied first team opportunities mainly because of Walker's consistently outstanding form. In fact if you think about it, it was Poch who has helped Walker improve dramatically this past two seasons from someone who was prone to regular brainfarts into one of the best and most reliable RWBs in the PL if not the whole of Europe.

Yet despite that Poch has recently seen fit to select Trippier ahead of the England RWB for several key matches. Remember Trips has not been playing regularly for the first team and we know from the dramatic improvements seen in others just how much regular first team game time can help improve a player even without the extra high octane coaching that Poch is renowned for.

You may argue Trips recent selection has more to do with needing to rest KW but he would never have taken the risk for such key matches as the FA Cup SF if he did not believe the ex-Burnley man was equal to the challenge. I submit it was because Poch had witnessed KT's form on the training ground and decided his improvement was such it was enough to take a chance on him even for the most critical of matches.

No one is claiming he's going to turn into another Bale but his recent attacking RWB play has already been right up there with the best in the PL. Imo there's every chance we could yet see a further significant improvement, especially in his defensive play, once he gets the chance to play regularly at the top level week-in week-out.

So I don't understand how people cannot see that this is what Poch has done regularly in the past with many of his players and will surely do again in the future - starting with our next brightest prospect Keiran Trippier!
 
Didn'tMindGraham said:
I agree to an extent, but remain to be convinced he is top class defensively. He's had some horror shows against top teams in a straight back 4. Monaco away it was like he wasn't there.

Sent from my E5823 using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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Agree there is still much scope for improvement to his defensive capabilities, so yes, a challenge for Poch as well as the player himself.

But with a good long run of games there's every chance Poch can help him raise his defensive game up a few notches. So long as he can reach a level where he is at least sound defensively then the quality of his attacking play should be more than enough to put him on equal footing all round with the best RWBs in the PL.
 
parklane1 said:
you may be right about his attitude if he does not get the move( but i still think it could all be paper flimflam), but one thing for sure ( imo) replacing him with Tripper for the whole season would be a mistake. I have nothing against Tripper but he is not as good a player as Walker.
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Remember as well.....If Walker does stay i think Trippier will want to leave, he's made it clear he wants games. So it would be KWP or another RB signing anyway.
 
Spur of the moment said:
Two years and no improvement? Are you blind?

Trippier was already an outstanding attacking RWB prospect when he arrived from Burnley but he has been denied first team opportunities mainly because of Walker's consistently outstanding form. In fact if you think about it, it was Poch who has helped Walker improve dramatically this past two seasons from someone who was prone to regular brainfarts into one of the best and most reliable RWBs in the PL if not the whole of Europe.

Yet despite that Poch has recently seen fit to select Trippier ahead of the England RWB for several key matches. Remember Trips has not been playing regularly for the first team and we know from the dramatic improvements seen in others just how much regular first team game time can help improve a player even without the extra high octane coaching that Poch is renowned for.

You may argue Trips recent selection has more to do with needing to rest KW but he would never have taken the risk for such key matches as the FA Cup SF if he did not believe the ex-Burnley man was equal to the challenge. I submit it was because Poch had witnessed KT's form on the training ground and decided his improvement was such it was enough to take a chance on him even for the most critical of matches.

No one is claiming he's going to turn into another Bale but his recent attacking RWB play has already been right up there with the best in the PL. Imo there's every chance we could yet see a further significant improvement, especially in his defensive play, once he gets the chance to play regularly at the top level week-in week-out.

So I don't understand how people cannot see that this is what Poch has done regularly in the past with many of his players and will surely do again in the future - starting with our next brightest prospect Keiran Trippier!
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I don't see how he has improved much. He still has the exact same skillset that got him 26 assists in 2 seasons with Burnley in the Championship.
He hasn't developed that ability to cross the ball under Poch.
 
Spur of the moment said:
Am I alone in suspecting that - with Poch's help - Trippier could one day soon turn out to be an even better WB than KW? For sure he still has some considerable way to go to get anywhere near KW's defensive level but going forward he has already put in enough eyecatching performances to suggest the potential is there, and that is despite not getting regular game time.

When you reflect on the massive improvements since his arrival that Poch has extracted out of Walker and every other regular member of our first XI it's a safe bet he believes that over a sustained period he can work a similar kind of magic on Trippier both defensively and in attack.

Of course Trips is never going to match Walker for speed but as has been said before, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Walker has often had to rely on his raw pace to get back but how often is that because he knows he has it in his locker? Maybe Trips can be coached into better positional play to compensate for his relative lack of pace.

And although KW has improved considerably we still regularly see him use his pace to get forward then either hold up and pass backwards having run into a brick wall and out of other options.

Whilst Trippier might take a little longer to get forward he is brilliant - without the need to beat his man - at putting in an instant, well-placed cross or lofting an early ball over the defence to put the likes of Dele, Kane or Son clear through on goal.

I'm guessing Poch has already made this kind of calculation and is relishing the challenge of transforming KT into yet another top English international. Who knows, maybe he can even see the day in the not to distant future when Trippier ousts Walker from his England berth?

I for one would certainly not bet against it.
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I agree this could very well happen (Tippier has already improved a bit after all) but it will take time and that could affect the team's overall performance in the short - medium term.

Looking back, a slow start to the season has arguably resulted in us not being champions these last two seasons. So, replacing a key player who we have already developed into the outstanding player in his position in the league (in Europe?) will be a risky business IF it comes to pass - as is holding on to someone who might not want to be here of course.
 
Not to mention pace. Poch is aware we lack a bit of searing pace in the side. Most top teams will have some rapid players who can exploit space. In the first team we don't have anyone, apart from Walker and Son, who have serious pace.

Was interesting to see that Janssen is faster than people think, with impressive top speed stats. Eriksen also developed a good turn of pace which we saw early in the season - gym work paying off. We're not slow by any means, but its an area Poch knows we can add too, and losing Walker is a step in the wrong direction.

If we can keep him, we should. If its too late, too much water under the bridge, and Walker and Levy want it to happen (and at circa 50m its fair) then Poch will find a replacement who he will mould into shape.
 
Jurgen the German said:
We haven't been this good for 30 years. We have players who are the best in their position in the league and we have Kane and Alli who are the two of the finest young players in world football who could get in to most teams in world football. I agree we have done an admirable job keeping wages low but I think we're being naive if we think we can continue that strategy forever given much progress the club has shown on the pitch overtaking the likes of Emirates Marketing Project and United on the pitch. I don't think we have to match what the top clubs pay but I don't believe we can continue paying a third of what those clubs pay their top players.
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So say we increase our overall wage spending by 20-25% this summer. As a response to rumours that players like Walker and Alderweireld want more money to stay. That moves us from paying a third of what the richest clubs pay to closer to half of what they pay. What happens next summer? Another 20-25% bump as the same (or other players) start saying that they could be making twice as much at City? Just keep going from there?

I'm not talking about "forever". I'm talking about continuing the sensible approach Levy has taken so far where our overall wage spend is a lower percentage of our turnover than many of the clubs we're competing with. This has come by as a result of hard work and good strategical thinking from Levy and the club. Let's keep doing that. Let's increase wages as our turnover increases for sure.

Pirate55 said:
Agreed. We need to really seize the day and not let the opportunity slip. Pay our key players top wack with massive incentives to achieve CL again and stay for at least two seasons in the new stadium. By that time we would surely know if we are truly title and cup winners. In the meantime, sell off all our surplus players ( Sissoko, Wimmer, possibly Walker, if he agitates for a move, and maybe Lamela if the rumours are true) and only recruit at most two or three players in key positions.

We simply mustn't regress from here. Onwards and upwards.
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I don't see why not regressing, onwards and upwards and not letting the opportunity slip is best achieved by paying our key players "top wack". We all agree that we want the club to improve... The discussion is how to make that happen.

A great way to regress imo would be to overextend our wage spending, giving us less flexibility in the transfer market and risking a situation where we could be forced to sell because of our wage costs. Arsenal have spent a lot more money on wages than us, find themselves with key players on shorter contracts that want out. And they find themselves with frankly average players on way more money than they should be comfortable paying. What makes spending money more like them a good approach? Liverpool overextended their wage spending back 10-12 years ago and felt the effects of that for some time. Are they an example to follow?

No one wants to see our best players leave. But the reality is that there essentially is no way we can protect ourselves from players wanting to leave by just shoveling money at them. There is some risk that some of our key players will want to leave at some point. We have to accept some of that risk. We can try to minimize it, but we shouldn't try to eliminate it. And the fear of that risk shouldn't dictate our strategy.

Again and again I come back to Dortmund and Atletico Madrid as clubs to look too. Like us they've managed to compete with richer clubs over some time. And unlike us (so far) they've managed to establish themselves at a high level outperforming their financial constraints for some time. They have many of the same strengths as we do.

ricky2tricky4city said:
Levy has said players can want all they want. We have signed most on long contracts that they were happy with at the time. If we had performed badly then would they expect a reduction?

Very true....but slightly naive from Levy. Think he's on top of it though. He's not gonna go all Peter Ribbsdale on us anytime soon.
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To be fair Levy has to say that. He can't very well go into negotiations with agents this summer having said "yeah, we'll give everyone a pay bump as they deserve it".

Say what you want about Levy, but naive...? Not buying that.

I think he's very much on top of this situation. I think he knows very well the cost and disruption that can come from losing key players. And he has a great understanding of our financial situation, the costs and earnings expected from the stadium with error margins and what we can reasonably spend on wages over the next couple of seasons. Unlike people speculating on a forum. With the help of Pochettino very good decisions will be made on this.

Levy has to actually consider the risk of what happens if we have a disappointing season at Wembley and at the same time the WHL build takes longer than expected and we have to spend another year away whilst at the same time costs at the new stadium increasing. The chance of that happening might be small. I'm guessing it's less than 10%, but I also think it's higher than 1%. It's a somewhat likely outcome and it's Levy's job to actually figure out a way that even if that happens the club overall keeps moving forward.

Levy's approach has often been criticized for being too cautious and the amount of times I've seen the "top wack/just spend the money Levy" argument over the years is beyond my ability to count. But Levy's strategy has to me been key in making sure we haven't regressed seriously at any point during his time at the club. There have been setbacks as there will be, but they've never been catastrophic and we've always bounced back quite quickly. Never getting stuck paying wages beyond our means has been key to that imo. It has left us with flexibility in our decision making and in the transfer market at all times and we've been able to react to setbacks in a positive way.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Not to mention pace. Poch is aware we lack a bit of searing pace in the side. Most top teams will have some rapid players who can exploit space. In the first team we don't have anyone, apart from Walker and Son, who have serious pace.

Was interesting to see that Janssen is faster than people think, with impressive top speed stats. Eriksen also developed a good turn of pace which we saw early in the season - gym work paying off. We're not slow by any means, but its an area Poch knows we can add too, and losing Walker is a step in the wrong direction.

If we can keep him, we should. If its too late, too much water under the bridge, and Walker and Levy want it to happen (and at circa 50m its fair) then Poch will find a replacement who he will mould into shape.
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The point about pace is key - our full-backs are the only ones who really provide it in our system. Even otherwise reasonably pacy players like Son and Eriksen don't really display acceleration to burn past defenders on the break, mostly because they start in central positions and then have to go on diagonal runs to draw defenders out of position/beat them on the outside.

Our team as a whole is reasonably pacy, front to back (and our centre-backs in particular are faster than is usually the standard for a PL centre-back, which allows us to play a high line with relative ease) - but the only exceptional runners are Walker and Rose, both in the wing-back positions. If Walker goes, pace + physicality have got to be the basics in terms of a replacement, which disadvantages Trippier long-term (he has great technique, but he's not particularly big or fast). KWP doesn't yet seem like the physical type to me, which complements the pace we need and adds to our overall ethos as a bigger-than-average, indomitably powerful side that can play devilish stuff as well when it's called for.

So we're gonna need to look around for a long-term option at RB, who either surpasses Trippier immediately or rotates with Trippier and then replaces him in 2018/2019 while KWP (in turn) gets fully up to speed and ready in a similar rotation role.

Maybe Rick Karsdorp, of Feyenoord, could be an option - pretty big physical specimen (as per Wiki, he's actually a bit taller than Walker - 1.84m to Walker's 1.83), runs a lot, pretty fast (although not to Walker's level, obviously). With him and Terence Kongolo (a left-footed centre back who's spent his time playing at LB for Feyenoord this season), we will have acquired two pretty pacy, pretty physically solid, technically accomplished players...albeit from the Eredivisie (which doesn't have a spotless track record in terms of allowing for adaptation to the Premier League, as Janssen's proven).
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Remember as well.....If Walker does stay i think Trippier will want to leave, he's made it clear he wants games. So it would be KWP or another RB signing anyway.
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Will he?
He may actually be after a little stability in his life.

He and his partner have a new(ish) baby, he's at a workplace that seems to be treating him well and he's playing at the highest level of his career so far.
Considering that we seem to have made an effort to sign players who are grounded and have decent personalities, it may be that he's willing to work where he is on a pretty good wage, even if he isn't playing every week, because it is good for him as a man.
 
Briddo1882 said:
I don't agree that Trips hasn't improved. When he first came from Burnley I thought he was poor compared to Walks. However, every time he has played during the 2nd half of this season he has played well, and I think that is down to continuous improvement under MoPo.
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Do you have pet names for the whole team?

I like them ;)
 
braineclipse said:
To be fair Levy has to say that. He can't very well go into negotiations with agents this summer having said "yeah, we'll give everyone a pay bump as they deserve it".

Say what you want about Levy, but naive...? Not buying that.
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Naive regarding the point that he counters potential pay rises by suggesting that you would sit a player down and discuss a reduction in wages if they performed badly. As if, in the football world. Sh*t managers get £2M pay offs to walk.

He did say this out loud as well.

Levy is the best Chairman in the country by far, so not knocking him.
 
braineclipse said:
I think he's very much on top of this situation. I think he knows very well the cost and disruption that can come from losing key players. And he has a great understanding of our financial situation, the costs and earnings expected from the stadium with error margins and what we can reasonably spend on wages over the next couple of seasons. Unlike people speculating on a forum. With the help of Pochettino very good decisions will be made on this.

Levy has to actually consider the risk of what happens if we have a disappointing season at Wembley and at the same time the WHL build takes longer than expected and we have to spend another year away whilst at the same time costs at the new stadium increasing. The chance of that happening might be small. I'm guessing it's less than 10%, but I also think it's higher than 1%. It's a somewhat likely outcome and it's Levy's job to actually figure out a way that even if that happens the club overall keeps moving forward.

Levy's approach has often been criticized for being too cautious and the amount of times I've seen the "top wack/just spend the money Levy" argument over the years is beyond my ability to count. But Levy's strategy has to me been key in making sure we haven't regressed seriously at any point during his time at the club. There have been setbacks as there will be, but they've never been catastrophic and we've always bounced back quite quickly. Never getting stuck paying wages beyond our means has been key to that imo. It has left us with flexibility in our decision making and in the transfer market at all times and we've been able to react to setbacks in a positive way.
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Bang on.
 
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