Bedfordspurs
Martin Peters
Two of the jobs he left were to go to bigger and better jobs
That isn’t happening here for sure
Unless Madrid want him back
That isn’t happening here for sure
Unless Madrid want him back
-
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Jose Mourinho - SACKED
- Thread starter mjc23
- Start date
Bedfordspurs
Martin Peters
If only it meant anything
Robspur12
John Lacy
Jose Mourinho does not build teams!. I dont understand why fans keep saying this. He hasn't even stayed at a club for 4 season's!
He is very much part of the problem at the moment. The players look lost, he's publicly taking some to task, individual mistakes are being made every game pointing to players who are devoid of confidence. We struggle to beat mediocre sides and get beat by every decent side we come up against. I go into games now not expecting a result. I am not some fickle fan, i have supported Spurs since 1980 and I have seen this situation at Spurs plenty of times before. I have also held off calling time on Jose. Because he is Jose Mourinho.
I really like Jose but wished we had got the 2004 version rather than this one. He looks incapable of sorting out this mess and getting us into the top 4, in which case he will be gone before the end of the season.
We have the look of the AVB/Sherwood team of 2013. If that is the case we need a properly backed Poch system type manager to sort out this mess.
afsoc4life
Vedran Corluka
At United, Real and Chelsea (his second run), I perceive that his job description wasn't to build a team, it was to win trophies. I do not know what job description has given him. I suspect it is slightly different and Levy does like success built on sustainable foundations.
However I think you are being unrealistic if you think the current squad is capable of mounting a challenge in the way you wish. You are using the lens of 5 to 6 years ago to judge the Premier League. Back then it was clear from squad quality that we were capable of being up there with the best.
There are key positions where the quality is low especially compared to other teams.
Goal keeper - Lloris is capable of being the best on his day but the deputies - dear Lord. I still get nightmares when I remember Gazzaniga Vs Chelsea last season. Has anyone finally understood why he made that challenge?
RB - Aurier is top 6 quality. Doherty may become one. Needs more investment. Key position in a Jose team.
CB - In a key position, the quality is poor. When we have had problems in this position, we have hardly ever done well. There are players with potential but that requires time. I don't think we are top 8 here. There are quite a number of teams with better defensive partnerships at CB. Key position in a Jose team. Look at Jorge Costa, Terry, Walter Samuel, Lucio, Ramos etc
LB - I think we are top 6 here with Reguilon and Davies. We have been unlucky with injuries here. Key position in a Jose team. Think back to Ashley Cole, Chivu, Nuno Valente, Marcelo etc.
DM - We look good and are top 8 here. Hojberg and Sissoko do a job shielding. Passing however is another thing altogether. However I am not sure if we can be effective if someone presses us. This was also a problem under Pochettino. I remember the first game vs. Klopp's Liverpool. Very few of the players except Vertonghen and Eriksen could handle the counter press. Could any of the current touch Esteban Cambiasso? Another key position in a Jose team.
CM - Our quality here is improving. Aside from Ndombele, I don't see anyone top 6 here. Winks is potential but I am not sure if he will achieve it anymore. Is Skipp the answer? No. We need more quality here. This position is very key in a Mourinho team. Lo Celso can also play here though so perhaps that is his thinking but investment may be needed for squad depth.
AM - Quality here can be top 6. Lo Celso, Dele and Lamela can fill in here. However the high rating here for me is due to Lo Celso. We have been unlucky with injuries. Dele can't handle a high press and likes time on the ball. Lamela is injury prone and arguably inconsistent. Important position in a Jose team. Think back to Ozil, Sneijder, Lampard, etc
RW - Not top 6. Being a winger is far more than pace and dribbling ability. Decision making is critical. I don't see it with Bale or Bergwijn or Lucas Moura. Each of them has a particular weakness. Bergwijn has potential but will need time to develop.
LW - Ditto above. Son, Bergwijn can play here as well. I like Son's finishing and ability to cross but is he a creative winger? In my opinion, no. Is he dangerous yes in his own way. He can 'dribble', shoot and links up with Kane. However he is exhausted at the moment and this position like the RW needs investment.
ST - Kane. We are arguably top 6 based on a singular player but that player has well documented weaknesses which is standard for a world class player who is studied in depth by opposition managers. The worry is the amount of game time, and depth. Also I think Kane should focus on being a striker. There are times Spurs is attacking and there is no players (RW or LW) in the opposition box. Very puzzling. This started under Pochettino. Vinicius is on loan and to me will need more time. Key position - Jose has had Benny, Drogba, Benzema, Milito, Eto'o, Ibrahimovic. Funny enough I don't think Zlatan had a problem with Jose and he has more ego than most.
Youth teams - I have watched for a while and I recognize that Levy's investment will need time to bear fruit. I am not convinced that our youth development is up to scratch especially when we compare versus our rivals in the league.
Short summary - The team will require investment far more than we have now to make a challenge.
However I think you are being unrealistic if you think the current squad is capable of mounting a challenge in the way you wish. You are using the lens of 5 to 6 years ago to judge the Premier League. Back then it was clear from squad quality that we were capable of being up there with the best.
There are key positions where the quality is low especially compared to other teams.
Goal keeper - Lloris is capable of being the best on his day but the deputies - dear Lord. I still get nightmares when I remember Gazzaniga Vs Chelsea last season. Has anyone finally understood why he made that challenge?
RB - Aurier is top 6 quality. Doherty may become one. Needs more investment. Key position in a Jose team.
CB - In a key position, the quality is poor. When we have had problems in this position, we have hardly ever done well. There are players with potential but that requires time. I don't think we are top 8 here. There are quite a number of teams with better defensive partnerships at CB. Key position in a Jose team. Look at Jorge Costa, Terry, Walter Samuel, Lucio, Ramos etc
LB - I think we are top 6 here with Reguilon and Davies. We have been unlucky with injuries here. Key position in a Jose team. Think back to Ashley Cole, Chivu, Nuno Valente, Marcelo etc.
DM - We look good and are top 8 here. Hojberg and Sissoko do a job shielding. Passing however is another thing altogether. However I am not sure if we can be effective if someone presses us. This was also a problem under Pochettino. I remember the first game vs. Klopp's Liverpool. Very few of the players except Vertonghen and Eriksen could handle the counter press. Could any of the current touch Esteban Cambiasso? Another key position in a Jose team.
CM - Our quality here is improving. Aside from Ndombele, I don't see anyone top 6 here. Winks is potential but I am not sure if he will achieve it anymore. Is Skipp the answer? No. We need more quality here. This position is very key in a Mourinho team. Lo Celso can also play here though so perhaps that is his thinking but investment may be needed for squad depth.
AM - Quality here can be top 6. Lo Celso, Dele and Lamela can fill in here. However the high rating here for me is due to Lo Celso. We have been unlucky with injuries. Dele can't handle a high press and likes time on the ball. Lamela is injury prone and arguably inconsistent. Important position in a Jose team. Think back to Ozil, Sneijder, Lampard, etc
RW - Not top 6. Being a winger is far more than pace and dribbling ability. Decision making is critical. I don't see it with Bale or Bergwijn or Lucas Moura. Each of them has a particular weakness. Bergwijn has potential but will need time to develop.
LW - Ditto above. Son, Bergwijn can play here as well. I like Son's finishing and ability to cross but is he a creative winger? In my opinion, no. Is he dangerous yes in his own way. He can 'dribble', shoot and links up with Kane. However he is exhausted at the moment and this position like the RW needs investment.
ST - Kane. We are arguably top 6 based on a singular player but that player has well documented weaknesses which is standard for a world class player who is studied in depth by opposition managers. The worry is the amount of game time, and depth. Also I think Kane should focus on being a striker. There are times Spurs is attacking and there is no players (RW or LW) in the opposition box. Very puzzling. This started under Pochettino. Vinicius is on loan and to me will need more time. Key position - Jose has had Benny, Drogba, Benzema, Milito, Eto'o, Ibrahimovic. Funny enough I don't think Zlatan had a problem with Jose and he has more ego than most.
Youth teams - I have watched for a while and I recognize that Levy's investment will need time to bear fruit. I am not convinced that our youth development is up to scratch especially when we compare versus our rivals in the league.
Short summary - The team will require investment far more than we have now to make a challenge.
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Which is why we need a manager who turns average players into good players and good players into great players whehter thats as a result of coaching or the system which they install. In my view, thats not Jose's strength
One other thing to remember is the age of some of our players. Lloris and Toby are in need of replacing or signing their successors asap and have limited value, Sissoko not too far behind and if we ever want to get a decent price for Moura and Lamela, we nede to be selling them in the next 12-18 months. Oh and Bale and Vinicius also need replacing when their loans expire. This points to needing a manager who will take a 5 year view, and again that isn't Jose given how long he spends at clubs
I can see why Levy turned to Jose (and I was ok with that) as he wanted some success in the new stadium, and I can also see why he brought Bale back, but neither look like working in my view and we should now be playing a longer-term game.
I don't think that's in question.
When we appointed him he had the task to get a supposedly great team that was underperforming back to its best and challenging for honors - it should be clear to everyone now that what was actually required was to see through a rebuild.
A rebuild a lot didn't believe was required.
A rebuild that has seen 13 players signed over two seasons with a 160m net spend, but still leaves us as far away from challenging the top teams as ever (probably further away in fact)
The argument a lot of people are making now is that Mourinho is powerless to improve these players/this team and needs a host of players with a winning mentality in tune with how he wants to play before we can expect to see any improvement - is that realistic? Is he going to get that backing in the current climate?
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
Bishop
Terry Venables
Levy won't want to but the squad needs gutting, it's just as much about the players we don't have as much the dross we do.
Indeed, stagnation has meant more work and money now needs to be spent just to get back to where we were previously.
Indeed, stagnation has meant more work and money now needs to be spent just to get back to where we were previously.
Agree with you. We need to be signing £20m-£30m players who are say 22/23 years old like we did with Son, Eriksen etc and building for the long-term. Sign 3 of those this summer and for each of the next two summers so that we build a competitive team again. Thats what Leicester have done.
We can't afford to buy two £50m - £60m CBs and same on a keeper (as well as signing a back-up CF etc)...and to be honest, I'm not sure I want us paying that amount for players in their prime 27-29 y/o year given its not sustainable for us at the moment
Bedfordspurs
Martin Peters
Indeed
But as I say it’s a great watch and it covers all the teams he has managed
Bedfordspurs
Martin Peters
Leicester have sold players too, to help fund things
I didnt say that they hadn't. My point was that they've successfully built a team over a few years, like we did a few years ago, and thats the approach which we need to be taking now. I dont see us buying finished product players.
We seem to be drifting a bit aimlessly now. Its not obvious what we're trying to do as a club off the pitch or on the pitch. Levy obviously wanted to Mourinho, and I get that, but I dont see that he matches what the club needs or where we are.
All very sad, particularly after a few years where Spurs was a club to be proud of and which other teams looked at jealously
Bedfordspurs
Martin Peters
You should have that set us as cut and paste so you can post it for every post made on here
90sSpursBook
Erik Edman
I must say that Jose's demeanour (publicly with the press at least) seem to suggest that he is a long way from the palpable toxicity on display in his final days with Chelsea and Man U so I have to disagree with the narratives being spun that its groundhog day for him.
However, I also reflected on how so many other teams at the moment seem to be so much better coached - this is an intangible metric but using the eye test I feel that individually our only players who appear to be improving have been Kane and Son but as a team in terms of patterns of play, creating systematic systems of defence and/or attack and developing a longer term plan we are way behind:
Liverpool and City (this is understandable as their managers have been in post for 5 years and they've bought well).
Leicester, West Ham, Villa all have cohesive plans; have an identity and are achieving results as a collective beyond their individual means. Woolwich, Everton, Man U and Southampton have all blown hot and cold this season. Even Brighton, Wolves and Fulham appear to have a better sense of direction.
There's some mitigation for Jose and that is the lack of time he's had on the training ground to prepare for anything other than the next game but the current situation does not reflect well on him as a 'modern coach'. The ability to work with and improve what we have has always been a pre-requisite for Levy in selecting a manager.
However, I also reflected on how so many other teams at the moment seem to be so much better coached - this is an intangible metric but using the eye test I feel that individually our only players who appear to be improving have been Kane and Son but as a team in terms of patterns of play, creating systematic systems of defence and/or attack and developing a longer term plan we are way behind:
Liverpool and City (this is understandable as their managers have been in post for 5 years and they've bought well).
Leicester, West Ham, Villa all have cohesive plans; have an identity and are achieving results as a collective beyond their individual means. Woolwich, Everton, Man U and Southampton have all blown hot and cold this season. Even Brighton, Wolves and Fulham appear to have a better sense of direction.
There's some mitigation for Jose and that is the lack of time he's had on the training ground to prepare for anything other than the next game but the current situation does not reflect well on him as a 'modern coach'. The ability to work with and improve what we have has always been a pre-requisite for Levy in selecting a manager.
Warm and friendly post. Always a key ingredient for any successful online forum
Bedfordspurs
Martin Peters
TBH your draining very conversation with the same thing
Hence my comment
Much easier if you just paste the same thing for everything. At least it’s consistent
Just ignore me then, rather than feeling the need to reply to each and every post I make on any thread. Taking pot shots at people just ruins this sort of place. GG is generally a good site without too many trolls and abuse/arguments - better to keep it that way so that it carries on 'working'
Diamond Lights
Didier Zokora
On 12 occasions this season a Premier League team has had six touches or fewer in the opposition penalty area in a match.
Tottenham account for 25% of them, more than any other team.
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
Tottenham account for 25% of them, more than any other team.
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
NoLimits01
Goran Bunjevcevic
That was funny [emoji38] [emoji38]