Jehovah's Witnesses try to murder their own son

[Kenyan Spur]

This thread is very on-topic.

It was a criticism of religion and its followers. That's what we're discussing.

The parents fortunately failed in their attempts to steal their son away and he's now in the hands of medical professionals where he belongs.

The bold comment from you is something I find totally stupid

I thought you said that they were trying to MURDER him.
That has not been the case. They wanted BETTER ( in their, and many others opinion ) treatment, and seem to be getting it.

According to Sky News this morning, EVERYONE ( apart from you ) including the high court, the hospital he was stolen from, etc have agreed this as the best approach.

 

[Kenyan Spur]

For a couple of parents that tried to "murder" their own son..it now looks like Ashya is going to get the treatment the parents hoped for. I wish them nothing but good fortune for the future. ALL "good decent" people hope for a positive outcome. I am sure that some will still find fault in their actions..in order to further their warped agenda. Quite frankly, I actually pity those individuals.


Ashya King allowed to fly to Prague for treatment

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29086267

"The parents of five-year-old brain tumour patient Ashya King have been given permission by the High Court to take him to Prague for treatment.

He was expected to travel by private jet on Friday evening ahead of starting proton beam treatment.

Parents Brett and Naghmeh King removed Ashya from Southampton General Hospital on 28 August after disagreeing with doctors about his treatment.

They were later arrested in Spain under a European Arrest Warrant.

Ashya was made a ward of court at the request of Portsmouth City Council, but council leader Donna Jones said that status would end once he was admitted to the Proton Therapy Center in Prague.


[video=youtube;7b4YgSCgihc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b4YgSCgihc[/video]

This 100%. Some people should raise their hand and say I WAS WRONG IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE.

 

[scaramanga]

Religion is man made - so is flawed from the outset. The only thing that really matters is the belief in a higher power, and it's something which cannot be dissproved - hence why people think they've won the argument by pointing out that *insert religious fable* is not actually possible because *insert modern science*

I'm of the opinion that belief itself is flawed. If you can't soundly reason why you hold an opinion then it's probably time to drop it.

I'm not promoting being a cynic, just skeptical of everything until there's a good reason not to be.

 

[Reggie_Mentalist]

I did try and watch those videos, I just couldn't stick them.

I've got no time for rambling or people that can't get to the point so I lost interest very quickly.

I can tell from the way he speaks that he's not a medical professional, so I doubt I'm missing any pertinent points from the case.

Maybe you could make a video, for the class, in the native tongue of the Czech republic...by way of response..

 

[Reggie_Mentalist]

[video=youtube;lvd5cBa5tFk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvd5cBa5tFk[/video]

[video=youtube;V76s9GMDd7k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V76s9GMDd7k[/video]

 

[scaramanga]

Maybe you could make a video, for the class, in the native tongue of the Czech republic...by way of response..

Why would I?

I'm not a medical expert so I can't contribute anything of value either. If I did make a YouTube video of me speaking about something I'm not expert in it would just be attention seeking.

BTW, my company owns a factory in CZ so I'm better at speaking it than you think!

 

[scaramanga]

The bold comment from you is something I find totally stupid

I thought you said that they were trying to MURDER him.
That has not been the case. They wanted BETTER ( in their, and many others opinion ) treatment, and seem to be getting it.

According to Sky News this morning, EVERYONE ( apart from you ) including the high court, the hospital he was stolen from, etc have agreed this as the best approach.

Had the boy not made it on the journey it absolutely would have been murder in my eyes. They were far too well informed for manslaughter.

Fortunately for everyone they got away with it and he survived.

 

[Kenyan Spur]

Had the boy not made it on the journey it absolutely would have been murder in my eyes. They were far too well informed for manslaughter.

Fortunately for everyone they got away with it and he survived.

Just admit you were WRONG to start the thread claiming it was MURDER.

I think you jumped to conclusion that just because they were JWs they would not be seeking medical advice.

The family had made sure that they had ALL the necessary food etc. to make the journey.

They were NOT trying to murder their kid. They were trying to get BETTER treatment, not yet available in the UK.
This treatment BTW will be available in the UK when they get there act together,

 

[scaramanga]

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Just admit you were WRONG to start the thread claiming it was MURDER.

I think you jumped to conclusion that just because they were JWs they would not be seeking medical advice.

The family had made sure that they had ALL the necessary food etc. to make the journey.

They were NOT trying to murder their kid. They were trying to get BETTER treatment, not yet available in the UK.
This treatment BTW will be available in the UK when they get there act together,

I jumped to the entirely correct conclusion that they're JWs and therefore incapable of applying logic and used to ignoring medical professionals.

They didn't ensure they had the people best placed to care for their son or any of the equipment available to those professionals. This isn't a day trip to Butlins, you can't just pack some food and go.

They claim they were trying to get what they believe is better treatment. Treatment they were told by professionals was unlikely to be any more effective than what was available to them.

Just because this treatment's being approved for the UK, it doesn't make it more effective in every case and it certainly doesn't mean it's worth moving a very unwell child across half a continent to get it.

 

[milo]

I found this interesting reading, there was quite a lot here that I was not aware of before

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/sep/05/ashya-king-prague-proton-beam-therapy-court-ruling

 

[Reggie_Mentalist]

Why would I?

I'm not a medical expert so I can't contribute anything of value either. If I did make a YouTube video of me speaking about something I'm not expert in it would just be attention seeking.

BTW, my company owns a factory in CZ so I'm better at speaking it than you think!

Oh, of course it does, how silly of me to JUMP to conclusions BEFORE I knew all the relevant facts. Kinda like your original post in this thread..kinda.

Let's face it, you royally ****ed up with the thread title and opening gambit here. No matter how much spin you project on us nothing can extract you from the hole you dug for yourself.

By continuing this ridiculous, pointless thread...you bring shame and ridicule to this community.

 

[scaramanga]

Oh, of course it does, how silly of me to JUMP to conclusions BEFORE I knew all the relevant facts. Kinda like your original post in this thread..kinda.

Let's face it, you royally ****ed up with the thread title and opening gambit here. No matter how much spin you project on us nothing can extract you from the hole you dug for yourself.

By continuing this ridiculous, pointless thread...you bring shame and ridicule to this community.

Yet if you read the article linked in the post directly above yours it explains the position of the professionals very well and makes it clear that the parents were in the wrong, ignoring advice and risking their child's life.

I rest my case.

 

[Reggie_Mentalist]

Yet if you read the article linked in the post directly above yours it explains the position of the professionals very well and makes it clear that the parents were in the wrong, ignoring advice and risking their child's life.

I rest my case.

Oh no Sir ! You nailed your boots to the fence pretty darn clearly right from the off. YOU accused these parents of being potential murderers. YET there is zero evidence ANYWHERE to suggest that these 2 parents EVER brought religion into this affair. NONE whatsoever.

This thread defines FAIL.

 

[scaramanga]

Oh no Sir ! You nailed your boots to the fence pretty darn clearly right from the off. YOU accused these parents of being potential murderers. YET there is zero evidence ANYWHERE to suggest that these 2 parents EVER brought religion into this affair. NONE whatsoever.

This thread defines FAIL.

They're part of a cult that defines itself by its religiosity. That cult regularly tells its followers that they know better than doctors.

I don't know how it could be any more about religion.

If his parents were acupuncturists I'd be blaming their flawed understanding of how medicine works whether or not it was acupuncture they were after.

 

[Aldo]

It's very misleading to keep claiming that the parents "ignored" medical advice.

As has been said above, they were very well informed, and as such they weighed up what they had been advised by Southampton along with advice /research on other treatments available and took a considered and conscious decision to choose the course of action that they have.

That is not ignoring medical advice.

 

[Reggie_Mentalist]

They're part of a cult that defines itself by its religiosity. That cult regularly tells its followers that they know better than doctors.

I don't know how it could be any more about religion.

If his parents were acupuncturists I'd be blaming their flawed understanding of how medicine works whether or not it was acupuncture they were after.

Again, just in case you didn't hear me the first time. At no time did either parent play the religion card.

This thread was designed to specifically draw attention to this SPECIFIC family and their plight, hence the link you dropped right from the off. No doubts about it !

YES, the Jehovas Witnesses are a cult, and I despise them with every fibre of my very being. I despise ALL religion ! The thing is that these parents WANTED this new treatment for their son. This country couldn't offer it so they looked elsewhere...and by GAD they found it.

Put yourself in their shoes just this once. WHAT if a child related to yourself was in such a predicament. IF there was one chance for cure, wouldn't you take it ? How would your own mind deal with the constant "if only we had tried" after thoughts in later life.

Pitiful, pitiful thread !

 

[Stufat]

Guys, scara is a mod here. He is allowed to make comments such as- insert retread smiley in a thread about a disabled kid.
The guy is getting away with murder, the more logic is posted the more troll bull**** he posts.
I have reported him but heard nothing back. All your doing is fanning his flames by keep trying to reason with him

 

[scaramanga]

It's very misleading to keep claiming that the parents "ignored" medical advice.

As has been said above, they were very well informed, and as such they weighed up what they had been advised by Southampton along with advice /research on other treatments available and took a considered and conscious decision to choose the course of action that they have.

That is not ignoring medical advice.

They only had one lot of medical advice. The rest was just a bunch of amateurs floundering their way around some really complicated topics that require years of training and experience. Not to mention a very high baseline level of intelligence to begin with.

I'm not really interested in a discussion on semantics of language, but to me there's little to no difference between disregarded, disbelieved, and ignored medical advice. They all amount to the same thing.

 

[scaramanga]

Again, just in case you didn't hear me the first time. At no time did either parent play the religion card.

Of course they didn't play the card - they know they'd be ridiculed if they did - I'd say most religious people have a fairly clear view on what people think of their religion - especially culty ones.

But it's simply impossible for them to take religion (and all of its faults) out of their decision making process. You chat just undo the years of being told don't accept help when a doctor tries to save your life. You can't undo years of being told don't use logic, just believe. They might not even think religion is coming into it (although I doubt that), but it is.

This thread was designed to specifically draw attention to this SPECIFIC family and their plight, hence the link you dropped right from the off. No doubts about it !

Yes it was. I think these 'parents' are a perfect example of a number of very dangerous aspect of public opinion in our society.

YES, the Jehovas Witnesses are a cult, and I despise them with every fibre of my very being. I despise ALL religion ! The thing is that these parents WANTED this new treatment for their son. This country couldn't offer it so they looked elsewhere...and by GAD they found it.

They were getting treatment for their son. They were getting the best treatment for their son in the situation. Read Milo's link to the Guardian - it couldn't be more clear.

Put yourself in their shoes just this once. WHAT if a child related to yourself was in such a predicament. IF there was one chance for cure, wouldn't you take it ? How would your own mind deal with the constant "if only we had tried" after thoughts in later life.

It's not a cure it's no better an option than the treatment he was already getting.

I would absolutely not risk my child's life by moving him across the continent without any of the equipment or professionals provided by a hospital. And certainly not for a treatment that. is no more likely to work than the one he's getting.

Pitiful, pitiful thread !

It's a shame people get so angry about it really, it could be a very good criticism of religion.

 

[scaramanga]

Guys, scara is a mod here. He is allowed to make comments such as- insert retread smiley in a thread about a disabled kid.

Why are you conflating retread with disabled? If you prefer, I can change it to educationally subnormal, sub-80 IQ, cogitatively challenged, etc.

The comment has nothing to do with the kid and everything to do with how utterly ****ing stupid his parents are.

The guy is getting away with murder, the more logic is posted the more troll bull**** he posts.

You can't just label points you don't like/can't argue against troll bull****. That's not how discussion works.

If you'd like to tell me how my analysis of the parents being dangerous idiots is at odds with the medical evidence provided to the Guardian yesterday I'd be interested to hear it. If you don't feel this is a point you can argue, then don't. It's that easy.

I have reported him but heard nothing back. All your doing is fanning his flames by keep trying to reason with him

Your concerns have been noted and a customer service representative......blahblahblah. Have you tried turning it off and back on again?