Injuries

[DubSpur]

I'm assuming you mean Evans! The drop off from a first team player to a back up is huge in terms of Micky to either Dier or Davies, the equivalent comparison would be Martinez / Varane compared to Lindelof which isn't as substantial. It's taken them more injuries in one isolated position for that to happen and to be fair them they're still grinding out 1 - 0 wins, whereas the results have turned for us (obviously hoping we can turn it around on Sunday). It's highlighted by how crucial it is having a pacy LCB in our system, and there being no cover for him means things go to brick. Were you happy with our sole chance of doing anything relying on Micky and Maddison remaining fit? City seem a tad irrelevant, other teams do have back ups that are suited to the way they play.

The suspensions are due to the actions of our players so we can't be claiming bad fortune on those, it's just recklessness. The responsibility lies with the players for being macarons but you can't really blame them for getting injuries.

Yeah, meant Evans. We've our two first CBs out, for Utd that would be a drop-off from Varane and Martinez to Maguire/Evans/Lindelof who are all poor. Even Varane and Martinez aren't great. For Arsenal take Saliba out and their defence immediately looks shakier.
Utd have ground out wins against Luton and Fulham, two lucky wins against crap teams, and before that City could have beaten them by a cricket score if they hadn't taken their foot off the gas. Our chances aren't solely reliant on two players. We've a very strong midfield and can cope with the loss of Maddison, especially with Bentancur looking like he can last 90 mins, even if it's not ideal. The issue is when we have multiple players out. We can carry a drop-off in one or two positions, but we can't cope with it in several positions.

Totally agree on the suspension bit, especially for Romero.

 

[spurspinter1]

Yeah, meant Evans. We've our two first CBs out, for Utd that would be a drop-off from Varane and Martinez to Maguire/Evans/Lindelof who are all poor. Even Varane and Martinez aren't great. For Arsenal take Saliba out and their defence immediately looks shakier.
Utd have ground out wins against Luton and Fulham, two lucky wins against crap teams, and before that City could have beaten them by a cricket score if they hadn't taken their foot off the gas. Our chances aren't solely reliant on two players. We've a very strong midfield and can cope with the loss of Maddison, especially with Bentancur looking like he can last 90 mins, even if it's not ideal. The issue is when we have multiple players out. We can carry a drop-off in one or two positions, but we can't cope with it in several positions.

Totally agree on the suspension bit, especially for Romero.

Fundamentally we just aren't going to agree as we obviously can't carry a drop off if the two players injured are Maddison and Micky, there are no replacements for them in the squad. Udogie is in that realm of not being replaceable as well. Only players who might be able to step in and do a job as losing the three mentioned had us looking like a Conte Spurs team throughout the game with a collapse at the end for good measure.

We have got good coverage in terms of the 6 position though I'd agree on that. But for CB and the 8, it seems like you're choosing to not see what is pretty clear. I do hope I'm wrong and we can get some decent results in the next month.

And sure your argument about nobody else having good back ups works if don't even class Lindelof, Varane and Martinez as good CBs. But I'll repeat, the drop off from Varane / Martinez to Lindelof is smaller than the drop off from Micky / Romero to Dier or Davies because they aren't suited to the system. As for Maguire, even he has started to look good in the league for them lot.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Fundamentally we just aren't going to agree as we obviously can't carry a drop off if the two players injured are Maddison and Micky, there are no replacements for them in the squad. Udogie is in that realm of not being replaceable as well. Only players who might be able to step in and do a job as losing the three mentioned had us looking like a Conte Spurs team throughout the game with a collapse at the end for good measure.

We have got good coverage in terms of the 6 position though I'd agree on that. But for CB and the 8, it seems like you're choosing to not see what is pretty clear. I do hope I'm wrong and we can get some decent results in the next month.

And sure your argument about nobody else having good back ups works if don't even class Lindelof, Varane and Martinez as good CBs. But I'll repeat, the drop off from Varane / Martinez to Lindelof is smaller than the drop off from Micky / Romero to Dier or Davies because they aren't suited to the system. As for Maguire, even he has started to look good in the league for them lot.

That last paragraph nails it
Dier and Davies could be amazing players, but if they don’t suit the system … it doesn’t work as well


We know we have that issue at keeper. We don’t have an obvious back up who can play the came way unless we go for youth

Full back… or at least left back. Unless sessegnon comes back with aggression and confidence (we haven’t seen that ever in reality)

And CB… Dier and Davies are good players. But they aren’t suited to this style of football.

One saving grace for me is the recent recruitment shows that the people selecting players know the stylistic and character we need. That’s why we have had so many new signings hit the ground running, which is super rare. That wont always happen of course. But because of that I’m confident we can buy in what we need to bolster the squad in the right way. Just not in January

I’ll just add though that the success rate of recent buys has been been so high that it can’t really carry on can it?!?!

 

[DubSpur]

Fundamentally we just aren't going to agree as we obviously can't carry a drop off if the two players injured are Maddison and Micky, there are no replacements for them in the squad. Udogie is in that realm of not being replaceable as well. Only players who might be able to step in and do a job as losing the three mentioned had us looking like a Conte Spurs team throughout the game with a collapse at the end for good measure.

We have got good coverage in terms of the 6 position though I'd agree on that. But for CB and the 8, it seems like you're choosing to not see what is pretty clear. I do hope I'm wrong and we can get some decent results in the next month.

And sure your argument about nobody else having good back ups works if don't even class Lindelof, Varane and Martinez as good CBs. But I'll repeat, the drop off from Varane / Martinez to Lindelof is smaller than the drop off from Micky / Romero to Dier or Davies because they aren't suited to the system. As for Maguire, even he has started to look good in the league for them lot.

We can carry one or two players out. There's obviously going to be a drop in quality, that's why the players are backups and not starters, but that isn't going to suddenly change us from title challengers to relegation candidates. We're not either at full strength or with a couple of players missing.

We've Bentancur coming back in and that makes up for the loss of Maddison.

The drop-off from Varane/Martinez to Lindelof is less because they aren't as good as VDV or Romero. Yes, Dier and Davies aren't an ideal match for the system but it's up to Ange to tweak it to make up for the loss of pace. The issue at the moment is we have our two starting CBs out. That is when we are really weakened. It's easier to tweak the system to cover a drop-off in one defensive position but much harder to cope with when you're entire first-choice CBs are out.

As for Maguire looking good, most CBs would look good against Luton and Fulham, he didn't look quite that good when given the run around by City.

 

[spurspinter1]

We can carry one or two players out. There's obviously going to be a drop in quality, that's why the players are backups and not starters, but that isn't going to suddenly change us from title challengers to relegation candidates. We're not either at full strength or with a couple of players missing.

We've Bentancur coming back in and that makes up for the loss of Maddison.

The drop-off from Varane/Martinez to Lindelof is less because they aren't as good as VDV or Romero. Yes, Dier and Davies aren't an ideal match for the system but it's up to Ange to tweak it to make up for the loss of pace. The issue at the moment is we have our two starting CBs out. That is when we are really weakened. It's easier to tweak the system to cover a drop-off in one defensive position but much harder to cope with when you're entire first-choice CBs are out.

As for Maguire looking good, most CBs would look good against Luton and Fulham, he didn't look quite that good when given the run around by City.

Have you got Bentancur mixed up with another player as well? He brings robustness in midfield and some excellent one touch passing but to suggest he makes up for Maddison is a thoroughly odd take. Square pegs in round holes or just empty shirts like Lo Celso isn't a good enough way to "carry" one or two injuries.

Funnily enough with Maddison and VDV we were pulling off title challenging form and without them two losses in two so the reality of what is happening doesn't help your notion of us being fine without key players.

And Ange isn't going to tweak a high line, he has literally said the way we play is non negotiable, did you not see the Chelsea game!? A lot of fans don't seem to grasp this, he didn't say the way we play is non negotiable to be billy big gonad*s in a presser, it's clear that Ange actually meant it. So by not having a back up pacy CB we are hugely weakened by either one or two injuries in just that one position nevermind LB and CAM (the 8 position), which is what you were initially disputing but are now pretty much stating yourself so I don't get if you're just being contrarian for the sake of it.

And on the Maguire point, using city as an example, most CB's don't look good against them but he actually wasn't awful and he's their fourth in line, our first back up is worse. Lindelof from United, Konate from Liverpool, Tomiyasu from Arsenal, plenty of teams have solid back up at CB. I'm just going to be repeating myself and there's no point getting tinkley with you, if you're happy with the depth in the squad then that's fine, it's odd how much faith you have in the back ups that bottled it against a supposedly crap Fulham's reserves.

This thread is probably best for discussing the injuries themselves rather than the impact they will have on the team / results, let's just hope we don't have another on the list after Sunday.

 

[DubSpur]

Have you got Bentancur mixed up with another player as well? He brings robustness in midfield and some excellent one touch passing but to suggest he makes up for Maddison is a thoroughly odd take. Square pegs in round holes or just empty shirts like Lo Celso isn't a good enough way to "carry" one or two injuries.

Funnily enough with Maddison and VDV we were pulling off title challenging form and without them two losses in two so the reality of what is happening doesn't help your notion of us being fine without key players.

And Ange isn't going to tweak a high line, he has literally said the way we play is non negotiable, did you not see the Chelsea game!? A lot of fans don't seem to grasp this, he didn't say the way we play is non negotiable to be billy big gonad*s in a presser, it's clear that Ange actually meant it. So by not having a back up pacy CB we are hugely weakened by either one or two injuries in just that one position nevermind LB and CAM (the 8 position), which is what you were initially disputing but are now pretty much stating yourself so I don't get if you're just being contrarian for the sake of it.

And on the Maguire point, using city as an example, most CB's don't look good against them but he actually wasn't awful and he's their fourth in line, our first back up is worse. Lindelof from United, Konate from Liverpool, Tomiyasu from Arsenal, plenty of teams have solid back up at CB. I'm just going to be repeating myself and there's no point getting tinkley with you, if you're happy with the depth in the squad then that's fine, it's odd how much faith you have in the back ups that bottled it against a supposedly crap Fulham's reserves.

This thread is probably best for discussing the injuries themselves rather than the impact they will have on the team / results, let's just hope we don't have another on the list after Sunday.

I didn't say Bentancur was a direct replacement, he makes up for the loss of Maddison in different ways. He doesn't have Maddison's dribbling skills but his passing is top-notch and creative, he brings far more than just robustness and one-touch passing. He was our best player last year after Kane.

We were pulling off title challenging form but they weren't all title winning performances, it was never going to last, but if you want to believe it was then knock yourself out. The losses weren't just without Maddison and VDV, there were other players missing as well that made it impossible to cover for their loss.

I didn't mention tweak the high line, there's more than one way to tweak a system than replace the high-line. We've pace in other areas that can help out. And again I didn't mention that I'm happy with the squad depth. The statement I made was that no team is going to be able to cover multiple injuries without a drop-off, and that we can carry one or two injuries (obviously with some drop off) not multiple injuries. If you think that we're going to get to a place that we have ready made replacements sitting on the bench that won't see a drop off then you're in for disappointment. I'll stick with being more realistic or just being contrarian.

 

[spurspinter1]

I didn't say Bentancur was a direct replacement, he makes up for the loss of Maddison in different ways. He doesn't have Maddison's dribbling skills but his passing is top-notch and creative, he brings far more than just robustness and one-touch passing. He was our best player last year after Kane.

We were pulling off title challenging form but they weren't all title winning performances, it was never going to last, but if you want to believe it was then knock yourself out. The losses weren't just without Maddison and VDV, there were other players missing as well that made it impossible to cover for their loss.

I didn't mention tweak the high line, there's more than one way to tweak a system than replace the high-line. We've pace in other areas that can help out. And again I didn't mention that I'm happy with the squad depth. The statement I made was that no team is going to be able to cover multiple injuries without a drop-off, and that we can carry one or two injuries (obviously with some drop off) not multiple injuries. If you think that we're going to get to a place that we have ready made replacements sitting on the bench that won't see a drop off then you're in for disappointment. I'll stick with being more realistic or just being contrarian.

Bentancur is an unknown quantity in Ange's system and after the injury, I wouldn't be surprised if Sarr is better suited with his energy/ dynamism anyways but he's a great option to have, still not convinced any combination of the midfielders makes up for Maddison's absence. Hopefully the coaching staff have a way to do it rather than it being as stodgy as it was versus wolves.

I get that we won't have a full bench of players that are going to be of a similar quality but you'd at least want people who are suitable to the game plan. This is obviously a hangover from lurching from one style of manager to a polar opposite and only having one window to sort it out. I'm in no way disappointed nor surprised, it was pretty clear we were walking a tightrope and we've now fallen off it, there's some kind of potential metaphor with the tightrope essentially being VDV's hamstring but I cba to formulate it

As for tweaks to the system, speedy Gonzalez at LB and Usain Bolt at RB wouldn't make Dier or Davies suitable to playing in a high line, I'm not sure what changes can be implemented to a high line with unsuitable players.

The idea that no other team has good back up is just flat out incorrect, teams do have injuries and still achieve things. We just have to wait it out and see if there's any hope by the time our let players come back or if we can remedy it in January, it is what it is.

 

[DubSpur]

Bentancur is an unknown quantity in Ange's system and after the injury, I wouldn't be surprised if Sarr is better suited with his energy/ dynamism anyways but he's a great option to have, still not convinced any combination of the midfielders makes up for Maddison's absence. Hopefully the coaching staff have a way to do it rather than it being as stodgy as it was versus wolves.

I get that we won't have a full bench of players that are going to be of a similar quality but you'd at least want people who are suitable to the game plan. This is obviously a hangover from lurching from one style of manager to a polar opposite and only having one window to sort it out. I'm in no way disappointed nor surprised, it was pretty clear we were walking a tightrope and we've now fallen off it, there's some kind of potential metaphor with the tightrope essentially being VDV's hamstring but I cba to formulate it

As for tweaks to the system, speedy Gonzalez at LB and Usain Bolt at RB wouldn't make Dier or Davies suitable to playing in a high line, I'm not sure what changes can be implemented to a high line with unsuitable players.

The idea that no other team has good back up is just flat out incorrect, teams do have injuries and still achieve things. We just have to wait it out and see if there's any hope by the time our let players come back or if we can remedy it in January, it is what it is.

Ok, every other team can cope easily with multiple injuries it's just us that will struggle, will leave it there.

 

[spurspinter1]

Ok, every other team can cope easily with multiple injuries it's just us that will struggle, will leave it there.

Good chat, let's hope we don't buy anyone in January as the squad is good enough and it's just pure bad luck, being competitive is for losers anyways (I can also intentionally misinterpret what someone is saying, what a high level of communication, so very big and clever isn't it!!!)

 

[DubSpur]

Good chat, let's hope we don't buy anyone in January as the squad is good enough and it's just pure bad luck, being competitive is for losers anyways (I can also intentionally misinterpret what someone is saying, what a high level of communication, so very big and clever isn't it!!!)

You've proved that you can misinterpret throughout, last comment.

 

[spurspinter1]

You've proved that you can misinterpret throughout, last comment.

Okay petal, you do you.

As I said a while ago we aren't going to agree and this thread is for injuries rather than squad planning so apologies for dragging it off topic.

 

[Sandman]

What's the rub on Sarr?? How long is he out?

 

[Robbo]

What's the rub on Sarr?? How long is he out?

My bet would be he'll be back just in time to get injured at the ACN.

Bentancour will probably be back in training for pre season.

You could consider that prediction a bit pessimistic, but with our bad luck with injuries, I'd say it's pretty realistic.

 

[Dicko]

Lost Bentancur again today but I suppose on the bright side we have Bissouma back again, maybe Sarr soon, and one more game until Romero is back. We are also a few days closer to January. Pfft, Chelsea game really fudged us didn't it!?

 

[Raziel]

Lost Bentancur again today but I suppose on the bright side we have Bissouma back again, maybe Sarr soon, and one more game until Romero is back. We are also a few days closer to January. Pfft, Chelsea game really fudged us didn't it!?

10 out supposedly

- Bissouma, Sarr, Romero and if we are really lucky Bentancur should be all back in by West Ham
- Maddison, VDV, Perisic, Richi all not until January+ timeframe

Going to be tough for a while

 

[DeanoAustin]

10 out supposedly

- Bissouma, Sarr, Romero and if we are really lucky Bentancur should be all back in by West Ham
- Maddison, VDV, Perisic, Richi all not until January+ timeframe

Going to be tough for a while

Loved Ange's response on it yesterday. Along the lines of "it's tough but they'll come back and we'll come out the other side".

He has a much bigger picture view of things than most managers and fans. Can you imagine Jose, Conte or Klopp in this situation? I just hope fans realise where we are over the next few weeks. We may take a few more defeats but we've gotta stay behind this fella.

In fairness, our fans get a lot of stick and some of it has been deserved over the years. But they stuck right behind the team again yesterday from what I saw. Short term, we're in trouble. Long term, we're more than fine.

 

[Chrissivad]

 

[90291Spur]

Loved Ange's response on it yesterday. Along the lines of "it's tough but they'll come back and we'll come out the other side".

He has a much bigger picture view of things than most managers and fans. Can you imagine Jose, Conte or Klopp in this situation? I just hope fans realise where we are over the next few weeks. We may take a few more defeats but we've gotta stay behind this fella.

In fairness, our fans get a lot of stick and some of it has been deserved over the years. But they stuck right behind the team again yesterday from what I saw. Short term, we're in trouble. Long term, we're more than fine.

I agree with the last bit wholeheartedly. It was my first visit to the new place and despite the odd moany cnut, the overall support was good.

 

[Sandman]

genuine question here.

We have a large lump of players out. Some might come back in Jan. Some might not. out of the players we have out on Loan and if we dont buy players for our squad. Would you want any of them back?

Reggie, Rodon, Tanganga, Spence, ( I wont mention Ndombele - nobody wants him back or young players )

I heard Rodon is doing very well at Leeds. We dont really need Reggie or Spence. But Personally with Vdv out for a while and phillips unproven. I would rather have Tanganga or Rodon than Davies or Royal playing next to Romero.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

genuine question here.

We have a large lump of players out. Some might come back in Jan. Some might not. out of the players we have out on Loan and if we dont buy players for our squad. Would you want any of them back?

Reggie, Rodon, Tanganga, Spence, ( I wont mention Ndombele - nobody wants him back or young players )

I heard Rodon is doing very well at Leeds. We dont really need Reggie or Spence. But Personally with Vdv out for a while and phillips unproven. I would rather have Tanganga or Rodon than Davies or Royal playing next to Romero.

Rodon has been great at leeds
They are actually playing him