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I liked Erik Lamela before it was cool

Maltese Falcon said:
It is these kinds of two weights, two measures arguments which honestly make my blood boil.

Seeing as people seems to love stats so much...

Lamela - according to the official site - has 4 goals and 7 assists from 28 games with a shooting accuracy of 81% and a passing accuracy of also 81%

Paulinhi has played exactly half of those game and has 2 goals and 4 assists (i.e. better than half of Lamela's) and a shooting accuracy of 93% and a passing accuracy of 83%.

When I saw you say that one of them lacks "a passing range, a first touch and consistently has moments that just aren't fitting" I had to re-read it again because it was the perfect encapsulation of Lamela's game yesterday. I honestly would have loved to see the reaction on this board if Paulinho had a nightmare even half of the scale of Lamela's game yesterday; you would have murdered. But Lamela will be remedied by confidence.

I don;t know how old you are but these are exactly the same apologetic excuses that used to be done for Rebrov and Postiga - both players who were obviously hopeless but which people were unwilling to admit, presumably because they had invested too much emotional attachment with the players.

I can understand anyone coming and saying that both Paulinho and Lamela have been grossly underwhelming and should be cut loose while they still have a resale value.

But to say that Paulinho is hopeless but that Lamela has a technique - based on his league performances in a Spurs shirt - is bordering on the ridiculous
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Totally agree. There seems to be a lot of emotional investment for some in Lamela. I've said all season that we should stick with him at least until the end of the season, but it has limits. I don't see a great deal of difference in output this season between Townsend and Lamela so I don't buy that Lamela should start regardless of form. Poch has had no choice but to bench him as he's been poor for most of the season.

Eriksen and Chadli have also had games where they have been underwhelming/poor, but they have chipped in with goals, sometimes out of nothing. Those two players justify Poch's decision to stick by them, even in bad times. Lamela, hasn't earned that yet. How many times does Lamela get into goal scoring positions like Chadli and Eriksen do?
 
^ well there was twice in the last match where he got in to goal scoring positions and actually recieved a pass and several other times where he ran in behind and never got the ball - which has been a problem with our team this season, there aren't many players creating chances for the attacking players. Says a lot that Eriksen, our most creative player, has only two assists and Lamela, who is our next creative, is seemingly top of a lot of posters 'to go' list.
 
So over the season, you think he's done that enough then? Be interesting to see what his chance conversion rate is, because I've rarely seen him in the position to take chances.

I don't know why people are so keen to use assists to big Lamela up, Di Maria has 10 assits, but you would hardly call him a success story this season either. I've said before I believe assists are an overrated stat, it tends to be the players who play for the top teams that top the charts. Eriksen has 10 league goals, Lamela has 1. Bale's assist stats were always poor, but I don't think too many people would turn up their nose at the thought of him coming back.
 
billyiddo said:
^ well there was twice in the last match where he got in to goal scoring positions and actually recieved a pass and several other times where he ran in behind and never got the ball - which has been a problem with our team this season, there aren't many players creating chances for the attacking players. Says a lot that Eriksen, our most creative player, has only two assists and Lamela, who is our next creative, is seemingly top of a lot of posters 'to go' list.
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And eriksen has 12 goals I think...

Lamella is top of the assists but I'm sure we cab get another corner taker and a better more influential wide player to upgrade on him
 
Maltese Falcon said:
It is these kinds of two weights, two measures arguments which honestly make my blood boil.

Seeing as people seems to love stats so much...

Lamela - according to the official site - has 4 goals and 7 assists from 28 games with a shooting accuracy of 81% and a passing accuracy of also 81%

Paulinhi has played exactly half of those game and has 2 goals and 4 assists (i.e. better than half of Lamela's) and a shooting accuracy of 93% and a passing accuracy of 83%.

When I saw you say that one of them lacks "a passing range, a first touch and consistently has moments that just aren't fitting" I had to re-read it again because it was the perfect encapsulation of Lamela's game yesterday. I honestly would have loved to see the reaction on this board if Paulinho had a nightmare even half of the scale of Lamela's game yesterday; you would have murdered. But Lamela will be remedied by confidence.

I don;t know how old you are but these are exactly the same apologetic excuses that used to be done for Rebrov and Postiga - both players who were obviously hopeless but which people were unwilling to admit, presumably because they had invested too much emotional attachment with the players.

I can understand anyone coming and saying that both Paulinho and Lamela have been grossly underwhelming and should be cut loose while they still have a resale value.

But to say that Paulinho is hopeless but that Lamela has a technique - based on his league performances in a Spurs shirt - is bordering on the ridiculous
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I don't quite know what you're trying to say with those stats. What do they add to the discussion exactly?

The main point for me when comparing Lamela and Paulinho, in addition to age, is the effort and the desire they're showing. If Paulinho had been doing that as well as Lamela I would have had a lot more patience for him. And I think he would have played a lot more.

I also don't understand why one should be limited to looking at league appearances when trying to judge their technical ability?
 
Jurgen the German said:
So over the season, you think he's done that enough then? Be interesting to see what his chance conversion rate is, because I've rarely seen him in the position to take chances.

I don't know why people are so keen to use assists to big Lamela up, Di Maria has 10 assits, but you would hardly call him a success story this season either. I've said before I believe assists are an overrated stat, it tends to be the players who play for the top teams that top the charts. Eriksen has 10 league goals, Lamela has 1. Bale's assist stats were always poor, but I don't think too many people would turn up their nose at the thought of him coming back.
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Has anyone indicated that they think Lamela has done enough this season? That he doesn't have to improve to become/remain a regular starter for us?
 
I don't see the point of cutting our losses. We're better off keeping him, hoping he can fulfill his potential and have him hope to be an integral part of our team. There is a reason he's in and around Argentinas squad and why we forked out £30,000,000 for him. Raw ability.

He can play on the left, centre or on the right, so a good useful player to have. Is capable of something special, as we saw with the rabona and can pick out a great pass when he wants, assist for Kane against Liverpool for example.

I think we've all been disappointed with Lamela based on his price tag and the performances, but the majority of us agree that there is something there.
 
Jurgen the German said:
So over the season, you think he's done that enough then? Be interesting to see what his chance conversion rate is, because I've rarely seen him in the position to take chances.

I don't know why people are so keen to use assists to big Lamela up, Di Maria has 10 assits, but you would hardly call him a success story this season either. I've said before I believe assists are an overrated stat, it tends to be the players who play for the top teams that top the charts. Eriksen has 10 league goals, Lamela has 1. Bale's assist stats were always poor, but I don't think too many people would turn up their nose at the thought of him coming back.
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Im not sure why you seem to overlook the creative aspects of attacking midfielders games tbh when in my mind it's a very important part - in fact id say it's probably one of the most fundamental and basic parts of their game. Scoring goals and creating them go hand in hand, if there's no one creating then you are relying on players creating chances for themselves out of nothing and correct me if im wrong here but you have posted before, quite often iirc, saying that relying on a lot of individual goals from Bale and more recently Eriksen is not a good thing for the team.

Is he doing enough in front of goal in terms of scoring? No, not by a long shot - i don't think even the most biased Lamela fan could twist the stats to say otherwise and it has something i have consistently said he must improve if he is to be a regular starter for us. However he has been creating chances for his team mates consistently over the course of the season, more so than anyone bar Eriksen and if the rest of team were creating as much as these two then we'd probably be seeing us score more goals and picking up more points - which im sure is what we all want to see.
 
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braineclipse said:
Has anyone indicated that they think Lamela has done enough this season? That he doesn't have to improve to become/remain a regular starter for us?
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It comes across that way sometimes. Constantly referring to his stats is somewhat pointless as I think we can all agree based on what our eyes have seen that he hasn't been good enough.
 
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Out of curiosity has he got the best chance created stats?

You could argue that the most effective player creativity wise is the person who lays on the most chances... As they wouldnt be the person missing the chances
 
billyiddo said:
Im not sure why you seem to overlook the creative aspects of attacking midfielders games tbh when in my mind it's a very important part in fact id say it's probably one of the most fundamental basic important parts of their game. Scoring goals and creating them go hand in hand - if there's no one creating then you are relying on players creating out of nothing and correct me if im wrong here but you have posted before, quite often iirc, saying that relying on a lot of individual goals from Bale and more recently Eriksen is not a good thing for the team.

Is he doing enough in front of goal in terms of scoring? No, not by a long shot - i don't think even the most biased Lamela fan could twist the stats to say otherwise and it has something i have consistently said he must improve if he is to be a regular starter for us. However he has been creating chances for his team mates consistently over the course of the season, more so than anyone bar Eriksen and if the rest of team were creating as much as these two then we'd probably be seeing us score more goals and picking up more points - which im sure is what we all want to see.
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I'm not overlooking the creative aspect of the game, far from it, it's something we are crying out for. I'm just saying that the assist stat itself is somewhat of an overrated stat. I mention Gareth Bale again, I remember people (Arsenal fans mainly) knocking him because his assist stats were poor, but would anyone seriously argue that he wasn't an amazing creative player? How many world class crosses did he fire in that weren't tucked away by our misfiring strikers?

I'm not letting the other players off just to be clear, the entire team need to up their games in this respect, Eriksen included, he's a top impact player, but for such a talented player, he doesn't have as much creative impact as he should.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Out of curiosity has he got the best chance created stats?

You could argue that the most effective player creativity wise is the person who lays on the most chances... As they wouldnt be the person missing the chances
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Im actually using Chance Created and Key Pass to back up my views on his creativity rather than simply using Assists (for exactly the reasons you say) - he's 2nd behind Eriksen in both iirc (according to whoscored and Sqwawka)
 
billyiddo said:
Eriksen is 2.2 average per 90 minutes
Lamela is 1.8

And 3rd (Chadli iirc) is something like 1.4

So not that far behind in real terms, no

*from memory from the other night so am open to being off a little ;)
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Don't worry in not gonna check

The reality is for me anyway that be just doesn't do enough to warrant staying in a side with higher aspirations. The question I always ask where we play a side is how many of them would get in outs and vice versa...

He wouldn't IMO get in any sides above us and would probably not get in the ones immediately below...

Right now be reminds me of Stuart downing worryingly
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Don't worry in not gonna check

The reality is for me anyway that be just doesn't do enough to warrant staying in a side with higher aspirations. The question I always ask where we play a side is how many of them would get in outs and vice versa...

He wouldn't IMO get in any sides above us and would probably not get in the ones immediately below...

Right now be reminds me of Stuart downing worryingly
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Feel free to - at least then you could see that by your own argument/logic that Lamela is our second most effective creative player :p (Even though i doubt you'd say as much)

You're right he probably wouldn't get in to many teams around us atm it's quite apparent he's not the finished article yet despite it appearing on the surface that was the case with signing him for 30m - i think that more than anything skews peoples appraisal of this season, im sure if Pritchard finished next season as one of our most creative players we'd all be over the moon...

Anyway that's enough for me, night all :)
 
billyiddo said:
Feel free to - at least then you could see that by your own argument/logic that Lamela is our second most effective creative player :p (Even though i doubt you'd say as much)

You're right he probably wouldn't get in to many teams around us atm it's quite apparent he's not the finished article yet despite it appearing on the surface that was the case with signing him for 30m - i think that more than anything skews peoples appraisal of this season, im sure if Pritchard finished next season as one of our most creative players we'd all be over the moon...

Anyway that's enough for me, night all :)
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That's the problem though. For £30m he has to deliver more after two seasons of being at the club (regardless of what he did last season)

He may well be our second most effective cradtive player but alas he doesn't score enough and arguably doesn't really create enough

Compare him to someone like Tasic at Southampton and his stats are actually poor my comparison. Tasic is in his first season and plays arguably for a more defensive side... About a third of Lamella...

There are others similar who can do his job arguably as well that would have cost a fraction of the money so you can't ignore the £30M invested in him. If Soldado had cost £5m we wouldn't complain as fans but at £26m it feels like a robbery
 
braineclipse said:
Has anyone indicated that they think Lamela has done enough this season? That he doesn't have to improve to become/remain a regular starter for us?
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All I've said is that between him and Townsend, it's not even a contest. I think we should give him another season, but we need to add another attacking player this summer.
 
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