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Harry Winks

Cochise said:
Wheelchair.

Wheelchair was a great player, albeit different to Winks. He had/has goals and great striking technique, something that I haven't seen from Winks yet. Both of them have great technique when receiving the ball, they both have the vision and can see the bigger picture in their head's.

I don't think Wheelchair would've had the positional discipline to play as a midfield anchor like Winks did, he was at his best when given licence to affect the game and join up with his attacking team mates. If both were at Spurs, Wheelchair would be competing with Eriksen as the foil for Dele and Kane.
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A good summing up and one i agree with, unfortunately because of injurys we will never know how good Wheelchair he would have become. Winks has a ton of ability and seems to have the right attitude and i look forward to seeing him mature into a top player.
 
Cochise said:
Wheelchair.

Wheelchair was a great player, albeit different to Winks. He had/has goals and great striking technique, something that I haven't seen from Winks yet. Both of them have great technique when receiving the ball, they both have the vision and can see the bigger picture in their head's.

I don't think Wheelchair would've had the positional discipline to play as a midfield anchor like Winks did, he was at his best when given licence to affect the game and join up with his attacking team mates. If both were at Spurs, Wheelchair would be competing with Eriksen as the foil for Dele and Kane.
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Alli scored more goals in his first season with us (10) than Wheelchair has his entire career (7, if memory serves).

Wheelchair has scored some crackers, but he isnt a goalscorer.

he was never a great player. Ever. For a time he was a player of great potential. Clearly he had technique which was very easy on the eye, and a will to throw himself about a bit as well.

I agree he has no discipline, and because of that if both were at Spurs Wheelchair would never play. Let alone compete in our attacking areas where frankly he is a myth.

And that aside, when you look past the nice touch and technique you find he doesnt actually DO anything. As yourself, what impact did he have on Bournemouth last season? If he was so good he should have had himself the first name on their teamsheet, how did that go?

There is a legend around the player that is just completely undeserved. For example -

I recall meeting a gooner mate to watch the Man Utd Arsenal game one year. Wheelchair was coming back for his first PL game after one of his lay offs. Had had a couple of cup appearances and behind closed doors and that. Was 100% fit, and was going to make the difference.

Sky's build up was all around this, with huge JACKS BACK banners on the screen etc. Gooner mate declares Wheelchair is the best player in years and will make all the difference and will torment Utd.

I asked him, "but what does he actually do?". And his answer was fairly non-specific.

The game starts, the ball goes to Wheelchair and he passes it straight off the pitch "Oh!" I say "THATS what he does!" being the sarcastic bugger I am.

Then the ball goes to Wheelchair, he miss controls, loses it, and has to chase down a Utd player. Loses the foot race and they shoot wide. "Oh! Thats what he does!" (I couldnt resist).

Several more incidents came of him passing it straight to Utd, straight out of play, lunging into tackles he was never going to make...

Until eventually he got wound up, threw himself in recklessly and got sent off "Thats what he does!!"

I was taking the tinkle intially, but every action he took in the game warranted my jab at my mate, every action.

It became abundantly clear he is all flash and no bang. He is actually a pretty ineffective player, save for odd occasions. Which pretty well encapsulates his team as well.

Since then Ive made a point of actually watching what he does/achieves in game when Ive seen him, and since then nothing has happened to change my mind.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Alli scored more goals in his first season with us (10) than Wheelchair has his entire career (7, if memory serves).

Wheelchair has scored some crackers, but he isnt a goalscorer.

he was never a great player. Ever. For a time he was a player of great potential. Clearly he had technique which was very easy on the eye, and a will to throw himself about a bit as well.

I agree he has no discipline, and because of that if both were at Spurs Wheelchair would never play. Let alone compete in our attacking areas where frankly he is a myth.

And that aside, when you look past the nice touch and technique you find he doesnt actually DO anything. As yourself, what impact did he have on Bournemouth last season? If he was so good he should have had himself the first name on their teamsheet, how did that go?
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This. I even stuck him in my Fantasy League team at one point, convinced that he'd pop up with assists galore. I think he ended up on the Bournemouth bench, overshadowed by luminaries like Matt Richie.

Finally watched the whole Real match last night and was struck by how we completely lost our shape once Winks was subbed. Sissoko and Dembele just ran around like headless chickens. Or Chuck Norris in Dembele's case -- part of me wishes he had booted that taco Ramos into next week.
 
FatBloke said:
This. I even stuck him in my Fantasy League team at one point, convinced that he'd pop up with assists galore. I think he ended up on the Bournemouth bench, overshadowed by luminaries like Matt Richie.

Finally watched the whole Real match last night and was struck by how we completely lost our shape once Winks was subbed. Sissoko and Dembele just ran around like headless chickens. Or Chuck Norris in Dembele's case -- part of me wishes he had booted that taco Ramos into next week.
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Dembele doesn't run around - the Earth moves for him
 
@nayimfromthehalfwayline calm the fudge down mate, it's an opinion and not one you need to get worked up over. He was/is overhyped because he was the first English player in his age group to actually show signs of doing something. That shouldn't detract from the fact that he had raw talent. Injuries, lack of game time and misuse imo have seen his development stalled and left a poor player in his place.

The original question was however Winks or Wheelchair in his prime, not Winks or Wheelchair post injuries.

Firstly comparing any midfielder to Dele with regards to goals is off, given that he has been used as a second forward for large parts of that time. The only midfielders you could compare him to with regards to goals would be prime Gerrard and Lampard, players who had very similar roles.

Back on topic, Wheelchair had way more freedom than Winks, they played different roles. A 19/20 year old Wheelchair coming through would fit in as backup to Eriksen, to my mind his skillset would've suited that role in our team more than any other.

Give it another season and my opinion may change, but right now I think Winks is a great talent who will go far with more game time. Personally I think he could develop into a Pilro/Carrick type figure, especially with the formation's we are playing with right now. With us not having a DM right now (injuries to Wanyama and Alderweireld), nor perhaps the need for one he could grow into that role.
 
I am perfectly calm, but it appears I am the only one.

Fundamentally I think you are wrong. But, its your opinion and you are welcome to it.

I honestly believe Wheelchair does not stand up to genuine scrutiny at any point in his career. Injuries, mismanagement or whatever else you want to consider or ignore. He has always flattered to decieve.

And, even at 19 and full of potential, he wouldnt be close to our team right now.

As it happens, Alli played CM/Box to box for much of that season, only settling on a more advanced position later on, having made a step up of two divsions. I think the comparison is perfectly valid. And its a comparison that Wheelchair loses comprehensively.
 
Dier and Dembele were our CM's that year. Dele played in the attacking band with Lamela and Eriksen. There were a few games where he was played alongside Dier, but I think by the halfway stage Poch had switched Dembele back there and Dele stayed up nearer Kane.

Aside from that though the crux of it is, you have never rated Wheelchair in the slightest. I do think that there was talent there and when he burned brightest he outshone Winks. I don't think that he will ever recover to anything like that and Winks will eclipse him.
 
I havent rated him because he hasnt done anything. Like I said, all flash and no bang.

I have recognised he had at one time great potential, but I maintain he has done nothing with it - and as a result doesnt deserve the rather inflated reputation he enjoys today.
 
John Hartson in the press today saying that Winks is being overhyped and the at 21 he had done way more.

I think Winks is being focussed on a bit too much but Hartson should have a think about the change in landscape. Would a 21 year old Hartson have had the opportunities today that he had back then? I don' know that he would've.
 
Cor, Harry Winks, you know? Winksy, isn't it? Mmm?

Ginksy-Winksy? Mmm? Oh! Harold-y Ginksy-Winksy. Isn't it? You know, marvellous.

Ginksy-Winksy. Precocious talent, isn't he? Mmm? Ooh, got it all, you know? Speed, acceleration, sweet left foot, all the tricks - the dummy, the drop of the shoulder, the shimmy, nutmeg, jiggery-pokery, hocus pocus, abracadabra, I wanna reach out and grab ya. Steve Miller Band? Spin Doctors? Ooh, very similar.
 
greatwhitenorf said:
Cor, Harry Winks, you know? Winksy, isn't it? Mmm?

Ginksy-Winksy? Mmm? Oh! Harold-y Ginksy-Winksy. Isn't it? You know, marvellous.

Ginksy-Winksy. Precocious talent, isn't he? Mmm? Ooh, got it all, you know? Speed, acceleration, sweet left foot, all the tricks - the dummy, the drop of the shoulder, the shimmy, nutmeg, jiggery-pokery, hocus pocus, abracadabra, I wanna reach out and grab ya. Steve Miller Band? Spin Doctors? Ooh, very similar.
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Ginksy-Winksy is a teletubby I believe
 
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