• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Harry Kane MBE

Lets put Woy's comments into perspective. Basically he knew if he did not include Kane then the papers would all moan at him. So he named him in the squad. Tournament football at younger levels is good for the full international team. So of course he wants him to play in the U-21 tourney.

As a club we dont have much choice in the matter. The best thing for us to do would be to leave him out of the squad going to Australia. Then give him an extended break after the u-21 tournament. People are calling for burnout, but he was a sub a lot for us up until November. With the Jan-Feb fixture pile up he has got over played, but I think he will be fine.

We all know Roy is not a complete sandwich. He picked Walker and Townsend for gods sake. neither are in form, but it shows the level the England team has dropped to really. He needs all the help he can get.

As for sherwood. Well most managers are into self promotion. He did work with our youth. So he can have some pride in that. And he did give Kane a game when a lot of us thought he was not worth putting in the team. So being fair he is due his moment in the sun for putting him in the team. But Benteleb was always going to make it and Mason was down to Poch. So his moment to crow will only last so long. Unless you are Harry " I made bale the winger he is today" Redknapp.
 
Sandman said:
Lets put Woy's comments into perspective. Basically he knew if he did not include Kane then the papers would all moan at him. So he named him in the squad. Tournament football at younger levels is good for the full international team. So of course he wants him to play in the U-21 tourney.

As a club we dont have much choice in the matter. The best thing for us to do would be to leave him out of the squad going to Australia. Then give him an extended break after the u-21 tournament. People are calling for burnout, but he was a sub a lot for us up until November. With the Jan-Feb fixture pile up he has got over played, but I think he will be fine.

We all know Roy is not a complete sandwich. He picked Walker and Townsend for gods sake. neither are in form, but it shows the level the England team has dropped to really. He needs all the help he can get.

As for sherwood. Well most managers are into self promotion. He did work with our youth. So he can have some pride in that. And he did give Kane a game when a lot of us thought he was not worth putting in the team. So being fair he is due his moment in the sun for putting him in the team. But Benteleb was always going to make it and Mason was down to Poch. So his moment to crow will only last so long. Unless you are Harry " I made bale the winger he is today" Redknapp.
Click to expand...

The Australia thing seems like a red herring to me, and if Hodgson doesn't understand that he's using it as such I've been overestimating him.

People are seriously comparing one(!) post-season friendly(!) at the end of May with a competitive youth international tournament potentially adding up to 5 games over a couple of weeks finishing up at the end of June. Including of course the buildup to said tournament that will no doubt be quite intensive physically and last another couple of weeks at least I'm guessing. This really isn't like comparing apples and oranges, it's like comparing apples to a small paved path winding through a pine forest with a healthy population of squirrels.

How much of an extended break do you think we should give him after that tournament? I'm assuming the PL starts mid August-ish? So a month and a half after the tournament ends... Let's give him half of that off perhaps? Or do we want our star striker going through a full pre-season before the season starts perhaps? And do we want him reasonably fit and playing in our pre-season friendly to help him and the team continue to develop? Oh wait, we can't do that, because the pre-season essentially starts as the tournament finishes.
 
braineclipse said:
The Australia thing seems like a red herring to me, and if Hodgson doesn't understand that he's using it as such I've been overestimating him.

People are seriously comparing one(!) post-season friendly(!) at the end of May with a competitive youth international tournament potentially adding up to 5 games over a couple of weeks finishing up at the end of June. Including of course the buildup to said tournament that will no doubt be quite intensive physically and last another couple of weeks at least I'm guessing. This really isn't like comparing apples and oranges, it's like comparing apples to a small paved path winding through a pine forest with a healthy population of squirrels.

How much of an extended break do you think we should give him after that tournament? I'm assuming the PL starts mid August-ish? So a month and a half after the tournament ends... Let's give him half of that off perhaps? Or do we want our star striker going through a full pre-season before the season starts perhaps? And do we want him reasonably fit and playing in our pre-season friendly to help him and the team continue to develop? Oh wait, we can't do that, because the pre-season essentially starts as the tournament finishes.
Click to expand...

Im being devils advocate on this. Of course I see the difference between a friendly and a tournament. My point is that we dont have any way to stop him going to the tournament if he is picked. So with that in mind we need to manage the situation as best we can.

By playing in the tournament he wont need a pre-season. If it ends at the end of June then give him the two weeks off before the season starts in mid August. But also give him a rest before the tournament.

Like i said. We wont have a choice if he is picked. So we need to manage it as best we can.
 
Oh. And to continue my u21 rant a bit further...

Been some focus recently, seemingly both from the English media and FA on the youth tournaments. By the looks of it inspired by the success of Spain at a senior and youth level. Once again refusing to take proactive steps, rather acting in a reactionary manner and confusing correlation with causation. How dense do you have to be to think that the underlying reason for Spain's international success was the success at u21 level, rather than both those being the result of ongoing and consistent top level youth work over time. Focusing on the youth tournaments to replicate Spain's success is like looking at your rich neighbor and replicate his spending in an attempt to match his wealth.

And Spain weren't even particularly successful at a youth level in the time leading up to their recent senior success! Euro u21 wins in 2011 and 2013, but before that their last final was in 1998 (having been runners up in 1996). At the u20 World Cup level their last title was in 1999, followed by being runners up in 2003. Quickly looking at those squads from around the turn of the millennium the only big star ever involved in those was Iniesta in the 2003 u20 runners up squad. In fact for a rather long time Spain was known as a nation that did deliver in youth tournaments, but failed miserably at the senior level.

Anyone thinking that the quality and experience Spain's recent tournament winning squad has resulted from their involvement for the Spain youth teams are just wrong, borderline deluded. Their success internationally is a result of the great work being done by the clubs and the experience gained by those players at a club level is what's helped them succeed in international tournaments as well. Experiences in the CL and league are much more similar to a World Cup than the experience of a youth tournament with half filled stadiums in some soon forgotten town mid summer.

At Spurs we've actually managed to move ahead of the curve. It used to be that Harry Redknapp perhaps accurately observed that players like Xavi and Iniesta perhaps wouldn't even have made it in England. At Spurs we're now producing technical players in several positions, we're already seeing several of them break into the England squad and we have a very nice group of players following those. FA representatives should be standing outside Levy's car anxious to shake his hand and thank him for his investment and attention to the academy. They should be sending top level escorts to McDermott as a thanks for his involvement heading up our academy. And if Spurs has anything to say on the appropriate actions to take to help aid the development of our young players the FA representatives including Hodgson should sit down, shut the fudge up and listen to what knowledgeable people are talking about.

Spurs knows a lot more about Harry Kane's development than anyone at the FA. Spurs are in a much better position to evaluate what he will best benefit from come the summer. And whatever the FA thinks our motivations might be Spurs are absolutely 100% motivated to make Harry Kane the best player he can possibly become. That's what benefits the club, that's what benefits England long term, and that's obviously what benefits Harry Kane himself. Half wit suggestions about focusing on finances or whatever are worthless coming from people working for that dumpster fire of an organization. And like him or not, I will never trust a u21 coach to have the best interests of players in mind. For Gareth Southgate results at the u21 level is what gets him success, it's what gets him recognition and gets him back on the extremely lucrative managerial merry-go-round or even into senior international management. I trust the clubs much more.
 
Sandman said:
Im being devils advocate on this. Of course I see the difference between a friendly and a tournament. My point is that we dont have any way to stop him going to the tournament if he is picked. So with that in mind we need to manage the situation as best we can.

By playing in the tournament he wont need a pre-season. If it ends at the end of June then give him the two weeks off before the season starts in mid August. But also give him a rest before the tournament.

Like i said. We wont have a choice if he is picked. So we need to manage it as best we can.
Click to expand...

I'm no sports scientist but I really don't think that's how it works.
 
braineclipse said:
Oh. And to continue my u21 rant a bit further...

Been some focus recently, seemingly both from the English media and FA on the youth tournaments. By the looks of it inspired by the success of Spain at a senior and youth level. Once again refusing to take proactive steps, rather acting in a reactionary manner and confusing correlation with causation. How dense do you have to be to think that the underlying reason for Spain's international success was the success at u21 level, rather than both those being the result of ongoing and consistent top level youth work over time. Focusing on the youth tournaments to replicate Spain's success is like looking at your rich neighbor and replicate his spending in an attempt to match his wealth.

And Spain weren't even particularly successful at a youth level in the time leading up to their recent senior success! Euro u21 wins in 2011 and 2013, but before that their last final was in 1998 (having been runners up in 1996). At the u20 World Cup level their last title was in 1999, followed by being runners up in 2003. Quickly looking at those squads from around the turn of the millennium the only big star ever involved in those was Iniesta in the 2003 u20 runners up squad. In fact for a rather long time Spain was known as a nation that did deliver in youth tournaments, but failed miserably at the senior level.

Anyone thinking that the quality and experience Spain's recent tournament winning squad has resulted from their involvement for the Spain youth teams are just wrong, borderline deluded. Their success internationally is a result of the great work being done by the clubs and the experience gained by those players at a club level is what's helped them succeed in international tournaments as well. Experiences in the CL and league are much more similar to a World Cup than the experience of a youth tournament with half filled stadiums in some soon forgotten town mid summer.

At Spurs we've actually managed to move ahead of the curve. It used to be that Harry Redknapp perhaps accurately observed that players like Xavi and Iniesta perhaps wouldn't even have made it in England. At Spurs we're now producing technical players in several positions, we're already seeing several of them break into the England squad and we have a very nice group of players following those. FA representatives should be standing outside Levy's car anxious to shake his hand and thank him for his investment and attention to the academy. They should be sending top level escorts to McDermott as a thanks for his involvement heading up our academy. And if Spurs has anything to say on the appropriate actions to take to help aid the development of our young players the FA representatives including Hodgson should sit down, shut the fudge up and listen to what knowledgeable people are talking about.

Spurs knows a lot more about Harry Kane's development than anyone at the FA. Spurs are in a much better position to evaluate what he will best benefit from come the summer. And whatever the FA thinks our motivations might be Spurs are absolutely 100% motivated to make Harry Kane the best player he can possibly become. That's what benefits the club, that's what benefits England long term, and that's obviously what benefits Harry Kane himself. Half wit suggestions about focusing on finances or whatever are worthless coming from people working for that dumpster fire of an organization. And like him or not, I will never trust a u21 coach to have the best interests of players in mind. For Gareth Southgate results at the u21 level is what gets him success, it's what gets him recognition and gets him back on the extremely lucrative managerial merry-go-round or even into senior international management. I trust the clubs much more.
Click to expand...
I think there's some value in the experience of a tournament. Many of the players he's playing with now are likely to be in the same senior team as him in a few years - those bonds, the shared experience, etc. That all has to be valuable to the development of a player.

I'd rather he went away with the under 21s than be under the England press spotlight and hang around with the likes of Terry.
 
scaramanga said:
I think there's some value in the experience of a tournament. Many of the players he's playing with now are likely to be in the same senior team as him in a few years - those bonds, the shared experience, etc. That all has to be valuable to the development of a player.

I'd rather he went away with the under 21s than be under the England press spotlight and hang around with the likes of Terry.
Click to expand...

Sure there is some value to that...

But that has to be weighted up against the value of having a proper off season followed by a proper pre-season for a player likely to be our first choice in a season with both domestic and European football. I would say the people best placed to estimate the value of those two up against each other are the people working with Kane week in week out at Spurs.
 
braineclipse said:
Sure there is some value to that...

But that has to be weighted up against the value of having a proper off season followed by a proper pre-season for a player likely to be our first choice in a season with both domestic and European football. I would say the people best placed to estimate the value of those two up against each other are the people working with Kane week in week out at Spurs.
Click to expand...

you just seem to want to argue with any point put down that does not match your own. Of course we would all love him to have a proper break. A normal pre-season and then start the season with us. With the people at spurs knowing what is best for him.

But if he is picked. Then he is picked and we have no choice. So have to work around it. Get it?
 
Sandman said:
you just seem to want to argue with any point put down that does not match your own. Of course we would all love him to have a proper break. A normal pre-season and then start the season with us. With the people at spurs knowing what is best for him.

But if he is picked. Then he is picked and we have no choice. So have to work around it. Get it?
Click to expand...

Yes, I get that. No idea why you would think otherwise based on what I've posted.

Although I don't think the club should just sit back and wait for the decision by Southgate gate and adjust. They could argue their case both to the FA and to the media that bringing Kane to that tournament could be a mistake. As it seems we're doing.

What I'm saying is that I disagree with the argumentation used for why he should go.
 
yeah! like he has seen him play regularly. Pele the player was amazing, pele the person trying to stay relevant is annoying.
 
Sandman said:
yeah! like he has seen him play regularly. Pele the player was amazing, pele the person trying to stay relevant is annoying.
Click to expand...

Very funny.:D
But you cannot blame Pele. It is the media who are trying to get as much news about Kane as possible. What do you expect a football legend like Pele to say when he is asked about a current player. Surely, he cannot embarass himself and the player by saying he doesn't know anything about that player.
 
Now Sherwood is something else. He is trying to get full credit for Kane's improvement.

-------------------------------------

Tim Sherwood credits Christian Eriksen and Gylfi Sigurdsson for Harry Kane's success

TIM SHERWOOD believes Christian Eriksen and Gylfi Sigurdsson should take credit for Harry Kane's rise at Tottenham this season.

The 21-year-old striker has enjoyed a fantastic breakthrough season at Spurs, notching 26 goals in all competitions.

And former White Hart Lane boss Sherwood has revealed his recent success is mainly down to the guidance of team-mate Eriksen and ex-colleague Sigurdsson on the training field.

And Sherwood said: “We never knew whether he was going to reach the level he’s at now but we knew his mentality, desire and passion for the game was second to none.

“He’s got tremendous self-belief. He doesn’t see anyone as competition; he just sees himself and wanting to improve.

“Tremendous credit should go to Christian Eriksen and Gylfi Sigurdsson.

“As much as Harry was a fantastic trainer, those two guys spent hours on the training field with him; striking balls, working on the right side, the left side, and showing Harry how to train properly.”

-----------------------------

But Sherwood could be right. We need players with leadership qualities to guide our young players. In that sense, Eriksen and Sigurdsson did their part in guiding Kane. This is why it is disappointing we let Sigurdsson to leave. He could have improved our attack greatly this season.
 
"Harry Kane is just 2 goals away from becoming the first Spurs player since Klinsmann in 94/95 to score 30 goals in a season."

Does that include international goals?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back