Harry Kane MBE

[Raziel]

Don't City?

No, that's the thing

City doesn't faff or drag out transfers, but they don't pay world record fees and they have their own valuation that they don't exceed (it was pretty widely reported they were interested in VVD but let him go because he went out of the range they wanted to pay)

 

[Lilbaz]

I've watched football since it started in 1992...

Never heard of him?

Lol.

 

[Finney Is Back]

The last bit is fair comment for the vast majority of players (Shearer, Le Tiss, Sonny are notable exceptions). To be fair to Levy, he's raised our profile to the extent that we are considered one of the 12 biggest clubs in Europe. We were nowhere near that when he took over. On the playing side, under Poch, we definitely got within touching distance of glory to the extent that Kane signed for 6 years with us. We're not a million miles away and the stadium was supposed to get us closer but the pandemic has fudged that so far.

I know you're down on Levy so I do have to counter balance the above by saying he has made some serious missteps since the CL final that have set us back.

I don't think for one moment that we are considered to be one of the 12 biggest clubs in Europe. We have the 5th highest turnover in the PL and due to the might of the PL that gives us a high income but doesn't make us one of the biggest 12 clubs in Europe. In reality we wouldn't be counted amongst Europe's biggest clubs for anything other than turnover and if that logic is used to decide Europe's biggest clubs then West Ham are the 20th biggest club in Europe.

 

[DeanoAustin]

I don't think for one moment that we are considered to be one of the 12 biggest clubs in Europe. We have the 5th highest turnover in the PL and due to the might of the PL that gives us a high income but doesn't make us one of the biggest 12 clubs in Europe. In reality we wouldn't be counted amongst Europe's biggest clubs for anything other than turnover and if that logic is used to decide Europe's biggest clubs then West Ham are the 20th biggest club in Europe.

We’re certainly not one of the 12 biggest if you look at trophies. But we are one of the 12 most powerful which probably comes down to turnover. The ESL proved that. That’s a remarkable achievement from Levy even though we’d all probably prefer a pot or two rather than have one of the top 12 balance sheets.

 

[Bishop]

Jesus .. Bale was with Madrid from age 25 - present, in most worlds 26-29 is a players prime and in the case of Bale he had one good season with us, the rest of his top career was with Madrid. Modric moved at 26 and also gave that prime timeframe to Madrid, and he has even gotten better post his prime.

To say we had Bale and Modric at their prime would have been them at 28/29, we didn't ..

Players aren't overpriced, they just need someone who wants them. Jao Felix and Griezmann went for considerably more than City is offering for Kane, re Erisken, Contino went for way more than we would have asked for him. Fact is, as highly as we rated these guys, nobody saw the same value.

I disagree that we didn't have Modric in his prime. Not every player primes at 28 everyone ages differently. If you look at Modric's career there is no way he was not prime when he was with us. His level of performance never changed at Madrid. He was in his prime with us as was Berbatov. Now considering Bale had even more injuries at Madrid than he did at Spurs and he is basically physically finished at 31 then I think there is a good argument to say he was also in his prime at Spurs.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I didn't even understand his argument because we had all those players he mentioned and none of them won us the competitions he said they would have won besides the CC with Berbatov. [emoji848]

Most of them never even got close to winning anything except for the time we've had Kane.

Now he's not bigger than the club, no player ever is. But let's not start changing history. He's been instrumental in the progress the club has made. Without a striker to score the chances we would never have even gotten close to winning anything, just think back to Harry Redknapp's side that was desperately lacking that quality.

Indeed.... and if you look at the players in the positions where we're not weaker since the peak Pochettino team it is only the case because they are the same ones that were part of that Pochettino team - Lloris, Son and Kane. It's no surprise that the best of those players and the one that could genuinely start for pretty much any team in the World wants to leave now that he has seen multiple years of us getting weaker.

 

[Jurgen the German]

If this is just a big misunderstanding and Kane is at home self-isolating after a covid test for example and he is missing training for that reason then surely he or the club would come out and say it? I can’t reconcile where there would be radio silence. The only conclusion IMO that can be drawn here is he is refusing to turn up. I am sure Harry is fully aware that he is getting negative publicity for this. Why would he just sit back and allow people to bad mouth him if he has done nothing wrong? No one really knows but to me it is most likely he is sitting out training in order to force a transfer and he is ok with the fact that he is going to receive bad press in the short term. Levy divides opinion on here and I myself have been critical of his leadership but I’d advise him to keep doing what he is doing in this instance provided we get the right price for Kane and we can replace him in a timely manner in this window.

 

[Raziel]

I disagree that we didn't have Modric in his prime. Not every player primes at 28 everyone ages differently. If you look at Modric's career there is no way he was not prime when he was with us. His level of performance never changed at Madrid. He was in his prime with us as was Berbatov. Now considering Bale had even more injuries at Madrid than he did at Spurs and he is basically physically finished at 31 then I think there is a good argument to say he was also in his prime at Spurs.

Mate, Modric literally won the Ballon D'or 6 years after leaving us (vast majority of his personal awards are between 2014-2019), 2013-2017 was Bale's best years (not with us)

 

[Raziel]

If this is just a big misunderstanding and Kane is at home self-isolating after a covid test for example and he is missing training for that reason then surely he or the club would come out and say it? I can’t reconcile where there would be radio silence. The only conclusion IMO that can be drawn here is he is refusing to turn up. I am sure Harry is fully aware that he is getting negative publicity for this. Why would he just sit back and allow people to bad mouth him if he has done nothing wrong? No one really knows but to me it is most likely he is sitting out training in order to force a transfer and he is ok with the fact that he is going to receive bad press in the short term. Levy divides opinion on here and I myself have been critical of his leadership but I’d advise him to keep doing what he is doing in this instance provided we get the right price for Kane and we can replace him in a timely manner in this window.

His team is in damage control mode at this point, there is no misunderstanding, he was due to training, he didn't turn up (also note, the day he was supposed to turn up is "the latest possible date", several players have turned up prior to their expected date)

 

[Finney Is Back]

We did not have those players in their prime, not Bale, not Modric and Berbatov did win us a cup. A prime Bale was a fudging level above Kane, a player who could and did change a CL final

Kane has been a great player for us, and played a part in one of the best eras of the club (along with Eriksen, Toby, Jan, Lloris) but he's isn't fudging Messi/Ronaldo and isn't way above THFC, don't get why everyone thinks we are suddenly fudging Leyton Orient tweeting "I can't believe we had this guy"

United and Madrid did everything in their power to get Berbatov, Modric and Bale, Kane faces the same question Eriksen & Toby needed to, why isn't someone doing that for us? why didn't someone do that in my prime?

Bale changed a CL final playing for the best team in Europe anyway. I expect Kane would also be able to score winning goals in the finals if playing for the best team.
Ronaldo and Messi also played most of their careers for the best two teams in Europe.... Interesting that since Barcelona have waned somewhat in the last few years Messi hasn't been able to elevate them to a CL win. Interesting that when Ronaldo went to a slightly weaker team in Juventus he hasn't been able to do the same thing there.

Kane is an elite level player. Spurs are currently a third tier European club. At present Harry Kane's level is absolutely above THFC.... Have you seen the clubs we're up against in European competition this year? Who is the next player to Harry KAne in the competition and how much is he worth? Pellegrini at Roma perhaps worth about £35 million?

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

No, that's the thing

City doesn't faff or drag out transfers, but they don't pay world record fees and they have their own valuation that they don't exceed (it was pretty widely reported they were interested in VVD but let him go because he went out of the range they wanted to pay)

If thats all true, they are obviously misreading/misjudging the value of a player like Kane then.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Jesus .. Bale was with Madrid from age 25 - present, in most worlds 26-29 is a players prime and in the case of Bale he had one good season with us, the rest of his top career was with Madrid. Modric moved at 26 and also gave that prime timeframe to Madrid, and he has even gotten better post his prime.

To say we had Bale and Modric at their prime would have been them at 28/29, we didn't ..

Players aren't overpriced, they just need someone who wants them. Jao Felix and Griezmann went for considerably more than City is offering for Kane, re Erisken, Contino went for way more than we would have asked for him. Fact is, as highly as we rated these guys, nobody saw the same value.

We had both Bale and Modric at their peak but only for about a year of their peaks.... Real Madrid then had them for the next 4 years + of their peaks.

All of those players you mention went before covid decimated budgets (and before the changes to the rules in Spain that have hampered the big clubs there).

None of us have any idea how much we were asking for Eriksen. If I remember correctly the statement was that he "wasn't for sale" so we weren't asking for any specific price for him.

 

[Finney Is Back]

We’re certainly not one of the 12 biggest if you look at trophies. But we are one of the 12 most powerful which probably comes down to turnover. The ESL proved that. That’s a remarkable achievement from Levy even though we’d all probably prefer a pot or two rather than have one of the top 12 balance sheets.

So West Ham are one of the 20 most powerful clubs in Europe then?
I think the most likely reason that we were invited into the ESL was so that 15 English clubs weren't left outside of it, with 15 being the magic number for votes needed to change things in the PL (i.e. it ensured that the PL couldn't vote to expel the ESL clubs).

 

[Raziel]

Bale changed a CL final playing for the best team in Europe anyway. I expect Kane would also be able to score winning goals in the finals if playing for the best team.
Ronaldo and Messi also played most of their careers for the best two teams in Europe.... Interesting that Barcelona have waned somewhat in the last few years Messi hasn't been able to elevate them to a CL win. Interesting that when Ronaldo went to a slightly weaker team in Juventus he hasn't been able to do the same thing there.

Kane is an elite level player. Spurs are currently a third tier European club. At present Harry Kane's level is absolutely above THFC.... Have you seen the clubs we're up against in European competition this year? Who is the next player to Harry KAne in the competition and how much is he worth? Pellegrini at Roma perhaps worth about £35 million?

Why are you so desperate for us to sell Kane?

Why are you so desperate to prove Spurs is Tier 3 European club?

 

[Finney Is Back]

Mate, Modric literally won the Ballon D'or 6 years after leaving us (vast majority of his personal awards are between 2014-2019), 2013-2017 was Bale's best years (not with us)

Interesting considering that when Modric won that he was probably actually past his peak.

 

[Bishop]

Mate, Modric literally won the Ballon D'or 6 years after leaving us (vast majority of his personal awards are between 2014-2019), 2013-2017 was Bale's best years (not with us)

He won a Balon'dor later that does not mean he wasn't in his prime with us. His performance level had actually started to drop slightly when he won the Balon'dor which was awarded more as an appreciation of his career than because he was the best player in the world. None of that changes the fact that Modric entered and was in his prime at Spurs.

I'm wondering if you're a little naive or just being facetious if you can't imagine a reason why Modric would get more personal recognition playing for Real Madrid than he would playing for Spurs?

With Bale, you can argue it either way I'm not so strong with him as I am with Berb or Modric

 

[Seedy Ron]

Why are you so desperate for us to sell Kane?

Why are you so desperate to prove Spurs is Tier 3 European club?

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

No where did I say anything about spending big. I'm not even someone who has ever advocated for that. I've always argued for spending better and earlier, taking more risks with less established players not spending bigger fees.

No I'm saying it, just to highlight it's not the only factor and probably not the most important factor, given our direct rivals deep pockets.

 

[Raziel]

He won a Balon'dor later that does not mean he wasn't in his prime with us. His performance level had actually started to drop slightly when he won the Balon'dor which was awarded more as an appreciation of his career than because he was the best player in the world. None of that changes the fact that Modric entered and was in his prime at Spurs.

I'm wondering if you're a little naive or just being facetious if you can't imagine a reason why Modric would get more personal recognition playing for Real Madrid than he would playing for Spurs?

With Bale, you can argue it either way I'm not so strong with him as I am with Berb or Modric

Mate, Luka Modric was the best midfielder in the world for probably 2-3 years with Madrid (even if I agree the award was a year or two late), similarly Bale absolutely tore it up in several finals for Madrid.

Were they good for us? = yes, were they better for Madrid? = absolutely (just look at Bale's passing/creativity when he returned to us as example), Modric absolutely bossed midfields against elite teams at 29-31, at best we got a year of their best from them, maybe stretch it to two.

We have had 5 years of Kane's prime, we had nothing close to that from Bale (who pretty much fudged off right after his breakthrough) or Modric (who we did get that one extra year from)

 

[DeanoAustin]

So West Ham are one of the 20 most powerful clubs in Europe then?
I think the most likely reason that we were invited into the ESL was so that 15 English clubs weren't left outside of it, with 15 being the magic number for votes needed to change things in the PL (i.e. it ensured that the PL couldn't vote to expel the ESL clubs).

Name the clubs outside the ESL that are more powerful than us.