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Guglielmo Vicario

I haven't seen anything that says anything negative so far. Was the moment yesterday where he came out and then had to spring back but that looks more a getting to know you, getting to know me moment and let's be fair, it's a new team and brand new system that will throw up mistakes for a month or so as the team take on board Ange football, even he has said that.
 
Mosquito_Coasting said:
Not close to judging Vicario yet and thought he was v good v Shakhtar but cannot understand us not just paying £40m for Raya. That isn't over the odds for a crucial position. At least he won't be able to play against us on Sunday which might leave their very well organised defence a little disordered.
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It would be something like the 3rd highest fee ever for a GK, far less one with a year left on his contract, who doesn't even own his national team spot, who hasn't played European/CL football, it is over the odds and why several clubs just walked away.

People got totally hyped up on Raya, and he may be or turn out to be better than Vicario, but lets not fool ourselves, he's not Nuer/some top level GK, he's likely no where near prime Hugo either.
 
Kandi1977 said:
I'm not having that. He's made some class saves, and I don't think many gk's would have saved the goals. Swapping him with, say, Raya, wouldn't have changed anything. The goals have come because of defensive shortcomings.
Also, he's been here 5 minutes! A bit early to make him a spacegoat, uh? So many are shooting from the hip and judging players, sometimes before they've fudging kicked a ball for us!
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Nobody's made him out to be a spacegoat as nothing has happened yet to unfairly blame him for.... spacegoat and narrative seem to be the in vogue words to be misused at the minute.

You are allowed to share an opinion that you don't rate a player based on what you've seen and it's fine for other people to disagree with that opinion. Obviously hoping he'll get nothing but support from the stands but let's face it, the guy is a bit of an unknown quantity for most. So many are still desperate to stick the boot in on Lloris but that's a different discussion..

I don't think the hypothetical swapping with Raya and assuming that it'd be the same is a particularly strong point as it's completely unprovable but midway through the season if Raya is excelling and our guy is struggling there might be a bit of buyers remorse, hopefully it wont come to that!
 
Raziel said:
It would be something like the 3rd highest fee ever for a GK, far less one with a year left on his contract, who doesn't even own his national team spot, who hasn't played European/CL football, it is over the odds and why several clubs just walked away.

People got totally hyped up on Raya, and he may be or turn out to be better than Vicario, but lets not fool ourselves, he's not Nuer/some top level GK, he's likely no where near prime Hugo either.
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No, but the grass is always greener on the other side. We could have signed prime Buffon, and some would still complain.
 
Kandi1977 said:
I'm not having that. He's made some class saves, and I don't think many gk's would have saved the goals. Swapping him with, say, Raya, wouldn't have changed anything. The goals have come because of defensive shortcomings.
Also, he's been here 5 minutes! A bit early to make him a spacegoat, uh? So many are shooting from the hip and judging players, sometimes before they've fudging kicked a ball for us!
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that what I am asking, once settled with a better defence, have we improved the gk? I just have a nagging feeling, he is not the one, hope I am wrong.
 
The Fatman said:
that what I am asking, once settled with a better defence, have we improved the gk? I just have a nagging feeling, he is not the one, hope I am wrong.
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Depends what you mean. Don't think he's as good as Lloris was at his best, but he was top 5 in the world. Vicario is certainly better with his feet, and looks a good enough shot stopper. Haven't really got to see how he copes in commanding the area. So he's an improvement in some aspects, and perhaps not in other. Not much between him and Raya imo. Both decent goalkeepers.
 
Thanks, cause I only seen highlights, which doesn’t show enough, only really when a goal goes in, or a really good save.
 
monkeybarry said:
What is it you think he is lacking in?
I have only seen brief highlights of the friendlees, so have no view.
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Hard to explain with keepers but guess his reflexes and the width he covers whilst diving just doesn’t seem enough. He always seems to me like he’s going late whenever he’s conceded. Then he throws temper tantrums for every goal. Haven’t seen him concede a single one with grace so far. You can understand behaving like that if you have a genuine grievance but not for every goal.

Do admit it’s only 3 preseason friendlies, and won’t lie against Barca with their attack it’s always difficult to compare. But sure against West Ham and that random side we played he also just didn’t seem to quite do enough
 
tommysvr said:
You both might be right; he may not turn out to be the keeper we need. But if you want to talk “fair” then I hardly think judging a player after 4 pre-season friendlies in a brand new team, with a brand new manager and in a brand new country is it. It’s incredibly unfair and “in 3 months time when he’s being slated and hounded by 60,000 game after game following mistake after mistake” seems to say he’s pretty convinced that he’ll be rubbish.
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17.2m makes this guy our record ever club signing for a goalkeeper. £5m more than Hugo (of course inflation has happened since).

I think for a keeper that’s quite a significant investment and that we should have been able to sign someone with at least 1 years top flight European football by age 24. Or have spent £10-15mil on a top tier keeper to cover us for next decade.

I’ll still give him time, I won’t abuse him, but I’m convinced this time next year he won’t be playing for us anymore anyway.

At least not the first team
 
Craig_J said:
17.2m makes this guy our record ever club signing for a goalkeeper. £5m more than Hugo (of course inflation has happened since).

I think for a keeper that’s quite a significant investment and that we should have been able to sign someone with at least 1 years top flight European football by age 24. Or have spent £10-15mil on a top tier keeper to cover us for next decade.

I’ll still give him time, I won’t abuse him, but I’m convinced this time next year he won’t be playing for us anymore anyway.

At least not the first team
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There's a good read on why we went for him: https://theathletic.com/4632588/202...pros-inspect-the-shot-stopper-extraordinaire/
 
Craig_J said:
17.2m makes this guy our record ever club signing for a goalkeeper. £5m more than Hugo (of course inflation has happened since).

I think for a keeper that’s quite a significant investment and that we should have been able to sign someone with at least 1 years top flight European football by age 24. Or have spent £10-15mil on a top tier keeper to cover us for next decade.

I’ll still give him time, I won’t abuse him, but I’m convinced this time next year he won’t be playing for us anymore anyway.

At least not the first team
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Based on what? 4 pre season games?
 
Craig_J said:
I give every player a chance! I give players plenty of time. This is the first time I’ve ever seen a player and felt confident from the off that they are not good enough and never will be.

I’m not the type to shout abuse from the stands so you don’t have to worry about that.

But in 3 months time when he’s being slated and hounded by 60,000 game after game following mistake after mistake I will remind you of what I said!

EDIT: Players need time to adapt. They always need time to adjust.

But goalkeeping is goalkeeping. It’s a universal skill. There’s no way to teach a 26 year old how to keep the ball out the net. They can be improved upon slightly through coaching but it’s perhaps the one position where you either have it or you don’t.

I don’t believe this guy has it. I’d have felt more confident with Hugo in goal.

I hope he proves me wrong completely but I cannot see a happy ending to this story.
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He's got very quick reflexes... On par with loris imo.
Even loris looked bad with Dier and Romero in front of him.

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Gazza Dazzla said:
40m for a player with 1 year left on his contract and who just a month or so later the price has reduced to about 25m!?!

Had we been quoted fair value by Brentford at the start then he’d be our keeper, but they chanced their arm and have ended up with egg on their face trying to hawk him around on a half price deal before the season starts.
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Maybe that's how we ended up with a bloated squad. Oops, we still have a bloated squad.

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Mosquito_Coasting said:
Not close to judging Vicario yet and thought he was v good v Shakhtar but cannot understand us not just paying £40m for Raya. That isn't over the odds for a crucial position. At least he won't be able to play against us on Sunday which might leave their very well organised defence a little disordered.
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Craig_J said:
Hard to explain with keepers but guess his reflexes and the width he covers whilst diving just doesn’t seem enough. He always seems to me like he’s going late whenever he’s conceded. Then he throws temper tantrums for every goal. Haven’t seen him concede a single one with grace so far. You can understand behaving like that if you have a genuine grievance but not for every goal.

Do admit it’s only 3 preseason friendlies, and won’t lie against Barca with their attack it’s always difficult to compare. But sure against West Ham and that random side we played he also just didn’t seem to quite do enough
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I have similar observations.
I do wonder how much of that is down to the defensive shape and space - that affects GK timing and positioning. And we've been used to Hugo - one of the best shot stoppers around.
I share your concerns, but won't make judgement until all the pieces are in place with the full XI
 
I haven't watched any of the friendlies but I think we should keep in mind that being a goalkeeper in small-ish team, where you'll face lots of shots and concede 2+ per game while looking good, and being a goalkeeper where you'll face 1-2 shots per game but can't afford any mistake is a very different proposition.

I'm not interested in watching friendlies but, from what I've read, with Postecoglou's system, he'll find himself against high-percentage shots quite often. The difference between an average and a top goalkeeper is probably less significant in that case and you might want to focus on other attributes (distribution, for instance). When you play with a high block and press all over the pitch, it's probably more important to get the rest of the team up to scratch. Regardless, I'm quite curious to see this team in action in a competitive game.
 
He will be Vicario Magnifico
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