Gareth Bale

[The Moonlit Knight]

It's not the Spurs way, agreed. But will yelling 'Boo you hypocrite!' whenever Bale falls over do any good? If anything, it might make him consider leaving, since he may well have his own reasons for falling over easy. His own blighted injury record shows that much. So yes, it isn't the Spurs way, and yes, Bill Nick would have turned in his grave if he had seen it, but what can we do about it that doesn't equate to booing our own player? so let it go, I say. I'm sure someone will have a word with him about it not being the Spurs way; after all, we've got more than enough legends working for the club in some capacity or other. If he continues to do it when he's 27 or 28, then it becomes worrying. But as a young lad, trying his best to cope with a whole host of new challenges? It's expected, and should be accepted. We can't always demand perfection; if we did, no one would play for us.

No reason why it can't be stamped out now. And who said anything about booing him or the crowd getting on his back? What I said is that we shouldn't condone it and I don't want to see the club condone it either. I know Redknapp won't anyway. He has made comments about Bale in the past doing it, and going down like he'd been shot even in training (whilst alluding to the fact Bale wasn't even hurt).

 

[DubaiSpur]

No reason why it can't be stamped out now. And who said anything about booing him or the crowd getting on his back? What I said is that we shouldn't condone it and I don't want to see the club condone it either. I know Redknapp won't anyway. He has made comments about Bale in the past doing it, and going down like he'd been shot even in training (whilst alluding to the fact Bale wasn't even hurt).

It is being stamped out. Redknapp himself has said as much, and I'm sure he goes down less now than when he started out. So, Redknapp won't stand for it, a few of the legends (Cliff Jones springs to mind) will probably have a few words with him about it down the line and he'll eventually learn not to do it. And I do agree with diving not being the Spurs way, wholeheartedly. The only points you made that I would cavil at are the ones about us not condoning it and the ones about Bale needing to cut it out NOW as opposed to eventually. How are we supposed to 'not condone it', really? Other than showing our displeasure at games, the only other ways I can think of is by phoning in to talk shows or saying 'Bale, disgraceful dive' on forums like this one.
And for whose benefit are we doing it? Just because other supporters might look at our forums and go 'Oh, they're arrogant tits, they support diving' doesn't mean we have to act absolutely outraged whenever a dive happens. When it's a dive that occurs with no good reason other than to con the referee, and when it's one that is committed by an experienced player, I'll have no complaints and will call for said player to cut it out (Zokora springs to mind). But when it's a youngster trying his best not to get injured ,and trying to get around defenders who are willing to go to any means to stop him, I'd say a little perspective is in order.

He's a young lad. He's learning. He's dived before. He'll probably dive again before the end. All we can hope for is that he cuts it down to the barest minimum, i.e doesn't do it except when he fears injury. Done, Move on. Surely you agree.

 

[punk_is_back`]

Bale may be a diver yes. He did try and win a free kick off the ref, but if he had stayed on his feet he would have been cut in half by the defenders. This is what's wrong with the english game at all levels, we are too quick to praise rough play; players who fly into dangerous tackles; players who show grit and determination above little else; headless chickens etc. Yet players who are skillful and show a bit of individual creativity are always lambasted. We all remember playing eleven a side as a youngster; where there was that one kid in the team who was better than everyone else. He would win games singlehandedly but one mistimed bit of skill and he would be pulled off by the coach and given a lecture about showboating. How the opposition team coach instructed everyone to "break that flash little git". It seems that we try and cut out any individual flair that players develop as we value teamwork and rough play over skill. It seems alright for idiots like Skrtel to go flying in to end people's careers but when a player dives out of the way of contact that would otherwise injure him then he gets lambasted. If Bale had played on we would have gotten the foul, but also a potential injury to our best player.
Whilst Bale did dive, if he hadn't contact would have been made and he would have been injured. Players like Pires looked for a dive and made contact with the defender without the defender even attempting a tackle. There's a big difference between the two.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Bale may be a diver yes. He did try and win a free kick off the ref, but if he had stayed on his feet he would have been cut in half by the defenders. This is what's wrong with the english game at all levels, we are too quick to praise rough play; players who fly into dangerous tackles; players who show grit and determination above little else; headless chickens etc. Yet players who are skillful and show a bit of individual creativity are always lambasted. We all remember playing eleven a side as a youngster; where there was that one kid in the team who was better than everyone else. He would win games singlehandedly but one mistimed bit of skill and he would be pulled off by the coach and given a lecture about showboating. How the opposition team coach instructed everyone to "break that flash little git". It seems that we try and cut out any individual flair that players develop as we value teamwork and rough play over skill. It seems alright for idiots like Skrtel to go flying in to end people's careers but when a player dives out of the way of contact that would otherwise injure him then he gets lambasted. If Bale had played on we would have gotten the foul, but also a potential injury to our best player.
Whilst Bale did dive, if he hadn't contact would have been made and he would have been injured. Players like Pires looked for a dive and made contact with the defender without the defender even attempting a tackle. There's a big difference between the two.

This. A hundred times this, with a slight addendum thrown in that maybe he doesn't need to fall quite so dramatically sometimes.

 

[marcospur2]

Exactly. Just because he is one of our own, and especially just because he is one of our best players does not mean his behaviour should automatically be condoned, forgiven or justified. He cheated. End of. We don't want to see that at Spurs. That's the sort of brick that happens down the road. When other team's players do it, we rage about it (justifiably so). I'd rather we weren't hypocritical and condemn opposition players for what we praise our own players for. Condemn them all and maybe we'll stamp it out of the game.

The problem I have is that Bale seems to be a lightning-rod for criticism. Some of the vitriol he provokes when he performs slightly off is incredible considering he is by far our best and most dangerous player. I should say at no stage have I condoned him for diving, even if I prefer to see it as more often about goingdown easy rather than blatant cheating. I really don't see him like that, and moreover the physical side of his game has improved dramatically over the past 2 years. He is only 22, and so while that means the coaches will be working to cut errors and bad habits out of his game, it should also mean we are alive to the context and not rush to judgement. But my point about no one will be immune is that the great physical Scott Parker is incredibly good at winning free-kicks that are so soft it is laughable. Usually doing so when he has miscontrolled in a dangerous part of the pitch. So all I am saying is that lets be careful about focusing on Bale to much in negative terms. He will of course command attention because expectation is always high when he gets the ball, and because he is usually quite brilliant, but he is not the only one in our team guilty of poor behaviour (and that is in the context of a team which is generally extremely well behaved).

 

[elltrev]

This. A hundred times this, with a slight addendum thrown in that maybe he doesn't need to fall quite so dramatically sometimes.

HIS DIVE DID NOT STOP CONTACT FROM BEING MADE. He had already avoided Agger's outstretched leg by swerving slightly, then he fell forward.

 

[punk_is_back`]

The problem I have is that Bale seems to be a lightning-rod for criticism. Some of the vitriol he provokes when he performs slightly off is incredible considering he is by far our best and most dangerous player. I should say at no stage have I condoned him for diving, even if I prefer to see it as more often about goingdown easy rather than blatant cheating. I really don't see him like that, and moreover the physical side of his game has improved dramatically over the past 2 years. He is only 22, and so while that means the coaches will be working to cut errors and bad habits out of his game, it should also mean we are alive to the context and not rush to judgement. But my point about no one will be immune is that the great physical Scott Parker is incredibly good at winning free-kicks that are so soft it is laughable. Usually doing so when he has miscontrolled in a dangerous part of the pitch. So all I am saying is that lets be careful about focusing on Bale to much in negative terms. He will of course command attention because expectation is always high when he gets the ball, and because he is usually quite brilliant, but he is not the only one in our team guilty of poor behaviour (and that is in the context of a team which is generally extremely well behaved).

That parker point backs up what I said 2 posts up. It seems that physical headless chicken players seem to get let off if they get it wrong.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

HIS DIVE DID NOT STOP CONTACT FROM BEING MADE. He had already avoided Agger's outstretched leg by swerving slightly, then he fell forward.

I am stunned that people are trying to claim if he hadn't gone down, despite no one being within a foot of him, he'd have been clattered. It's nonsense. He dived, and had he not dived no contact would've been made.

 

[ArcspacE]

Dubaispur, hope you'd be just as liberal in your thinking if gooner scum do us in the last minute with a 'dived' penalty

I somehow doubt that, though...

 

[Kingdawson]

Just decided to pop into this thread now. Bale did dive and it isn't the first time he's done it. Lets just hope he cuts it out in future and stop making excuses for him that we'd be laughing our asses off if Pool fans made the same excuses for Suarez or United fans for Nani.

 

[totman]

That parker point backs up what I said 2 posts up. It seems that physical headless chicken players seem to get let off if they get it wrong.

Its just any excuse with you isnt it.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Dubaispur, hope you'd be just as liberal in your thinking if gooner scum do us in the last minute with a 'dived' penalty

I somehow doubt that, though...

It depends. If the player dived out of the way of a tackle, and he had a history of injuries, I'd probably forgive him. If a player dived for the sole purpose of gaining a penalty, I'd swear like a sea dog without rum.

 

[COYS]

Gareth Bale is GHod.

Amen

 

[punk_is_back`]

Its just any excuse with you isnt it.

I'm just making a point. Parker seems allowed to get away with winning free kicks when miscontrolling or taking to long to release the ball yet he is absolved of blame. This is as a result of his inability to contribute in a positive manner to attacking/ possession football. Bale gets a lot of stick for going to ground easily or to avoid contact when he is trying to advance forward and attack, not because he has made a mistake or misjudgement.

 

[thfcsteff]

So just because some of us think Bale dives occasionally, that means we must have never played the game. What an absolute load of gonad*s! As Arc points out, Bale dives AFTER Agger attempts to foul him. Premier League players may be much faster and more technically gifted than your average sunday league player, but does that mean that there aren't horrendous challenges in sunday morning matches? Just because we don't play premier league standard football that means surely none of us can judge bad premier league players as we have never played at that level too? We can't slate Defoe for missing a one on one with the keeper because "you've never played at that level"? Ridiculous arguement!

Bale is my favourite Spurs player, but he's dived for years.

I guarantee every single poster who is condoning Bale's diving will be on here furiously typing away if we lose at the Emirates in a couple of weeks from the result of an Henry dive which lead to a penalty in the last minute.

There's one thing you're missing in your last sentence...we don't have players who deliberately go out to 'do' other players. Thus the chances of having to evade such behaviour is exponentially reduced. Right?

 

[thfcsteff]

Insults don't make your point any stronger and if anything exposes a gaping hole in the actual point you're trying to make.

I still play at a medium level and taking a step FIRST then falling is a dive in anyone books. You don't need to have Champions League experience to comprehend this rather basic concept

#-o#-o](*,)](*,)

He DID TAKE A STEP FIRST, whilst running at HIGH-SPEED, with his right foot, to avoid what he thought was coming given the line Agger had taken onto him, and in doing so he went over. At no time was Agger ever going to get that ball, he wear all about Bale...

 

[Pirate55]

The question we should be asking is why is it that it is usually the most skillful dribbling players who are often criticised for "diving". Ronaldo, Nani, Walcott, etc. Our own certainly arent immune Gascoigne, Ginola, Klinsmann, Waddle, Hoddle. In many cases it is often to take evasive action to avoid a good kicking. All this talk of diving, conning, cheating etc is well over the top and certainly not deserved in Bale's case. We should rather turn our fire on the hackers in the game such as skertl, agger, adam and the like. Leave the skillful players alone. We should all join the self preservation society (cue music) and enjoy the best football has to offer.

 

[spurspinter1]

There's one thing you're missing in your last sentence...we don't have players who deliberately go out to 'do' other players. Thus the chances of having to evade such behaviour is exponentially reduced. Right?

I disagree, Huddlestones got a pretty fiesty side he needs to address.

 

[Pirate55]

I have jumped out of many tackles and still do today, Pirate. That is not what Bale did however - he ran, ran some more and then fell

If you jump out of tackles (and subsequently fall over), please explain how this differs from your definition of diving

 

[Kingdawson]

you know what, even if the drop was a dive, i'm of the opinion that bale lost an advantage because he evaded the tackle. so he fell to get a foul, kind of like compensation for him having to evade the tackle and lose a yard or space from his opponents.

if this was the first time he's done it then ok but how can you just totally ignore the other times he's done the same thing?