Gareth Bale

[Modric THFC]

If you jump out of tackles (and subsequently fall over), please explain how this differs from your definition of diving

Its the timing of the jump/dive. If you jump/dive before the tackle you're jumping/diving out of the way.
If you're jumping/diving after the moment of impact then you're not jumping/diving out of the way.

 

[mick cooper]

#-o#-o](*,)](*,)

He DID TAKE A STEP FIRST, whilst running at HIGH-SPEED, with his right foot, to avoid what he thought was coming given the line Agger had taken onto him, and in doing so he went over. At no time was Agger ever going to get that ball, he wear all about Bale...

Steff, it probably best left.
The pious obsessives will not look at any other view, or consider any other points, and the black and white nature of their POV doesn't brook any reason or argument. They would all be quite happy for Bale to charge around at breakneck pace and take any amount of brutality, without taking any form of defensive manouevres - and no doubt will sleep soundly in their beds whilst he recovers from a double break in one of his ankles or legs, and becomes a shadow of the talent that he is today - like Ramsey at Goonville.

I think you and I - and the other defenders of his behaviour can see it for what it was, without ever considering the fact that taking evasive action from a demented centre back, hell bent on death and destruction one foot from the sideline (whilst motoring like Usain Bolt with a ball at his feet,) differs somewhat from deliberately courting a foul in a crowded penalty box.

I think he was embarassed that he got it wrong, and tried to cover it up, rather than putting his hands up, but that's all that is reprehensible about the incident.

The pious and pure of soul will continue their preaching as long as we perpetuate any form of defence. The smaller minded ones will continue to use our attempts at providing mitigating arguments as full and frank confessions of heresy to the memory of the Glory Glory game, and we will be sentenced to burn at the stake for forsaking the teachings of the good book of Nicholson.

I have heard that we will be torched wearing Arse*** shirts (eternal damnation) on a pyre of Emirates matchday programmes.

(NB - this post is intended to intoduce a little levity into a turgid thread that is becoming tedious by the minute, hopefully people will accept that, and not use it as further proof to add a good Stoning into the punishment. After all, all I said was "that was a lovely bit of Halibut, that would be fit for Jehova....)

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

I'm just making a point. Parker seems allowed to get away with winning free kicks when miscontrolling or taking to long to release the ball yet he is absolved of blame. This is as a result of his inability to contribute in a positive manner to attacking/ possession football. Bale gets a lot of stick for going to ground easily or to avoid contact when he is trying to advance forward and attack, not because he has made a mistake or misjudgement.

I've never seen Parker go down when there is no contact. I don't like it when players go down easy personally, but if they are fouled and do it to highlight they've been fouled then so be it. What I hate is when players go down without being touched. Where Bale did it wasn't even beneficial. I can only assume he did it because he had a beef with the player concerned and wanted to get him booked.

 

[punk_is_back`]

I've never seen Parker go down when there is no contact. I don't like it when players go down easy personally, but if they are fouled and do it to highlight they've been fouled then so be it. What I hate is when players go down without being touched. Where Bale did it wasn't even beneficial. I can only assume he did it because he had a beef with the player concerned and wanted to get him booked.

The point is not that they go down without making contact; but they go down to stop potentially risky situations. Parker goes down because he ha potentially lost the ball due to him spinning on the spot too much and the opposition closing down all passing avenues and himself. Whilst Bale goes down because he knows that he will be fouled if he continues playing.

 

[thfcsteff]

I disagree, Huddlestones got a pretty fiesty side he needs to address.

Agree with that mate...not likely to play the filth this season though, we'll be lucky if he can ever play 20 games in a season again from what I understand...

 

[thfcsteff]

Steff, it probably best left.
The pious obsessives will not look at any other view, or consider any other points, and the black and white nature of their POV doesn't brook any reason or argument. They would all be quite happy for Bale to charge around at breakneck pace and take any amount of brutality, without taking any form of defensive manouevres - and no doubt will sleep soundly in their beds whilst he recovers from a double break in one of his ankles or legs, and becomes a shadow of the talent that he is today - like Ramsey at Goonville.

I think you and I - and the other defenders of his behaviour can see it for what it was, without ever considering the fact that taking evasive action from a demented centre back, hell bent on death and destruction one foot from the sideline (whilst motoring like Usain Bolt with a ball at his feet,) differs somewhat from deliberately courting a foul in a crowded penalty box.

I think he was embarassed that he got it wrong, and tried to cover it up, rather than putting his hands up, but that's all that is reprehensible about the incident.

The pious and pure of soul will continue their preaching as long as we perpetuate any form of defence. The smaller minded ones will continue to use our attempts at providing mitigating arguments as full and frank confessions of heresy to the memory of the Glory Glory game, and we will be sentenced to burn at the stake for forsaking the teachings of the good book of Nicholson.

I have heard that we will be torched wearing Arse*** shirts (eternal damnation) on a pyre of Emirates matchday programmes.

(NB - this post is intended to intoduce a little levity into a turgid thread that is becoming tedious by the minute, hopefully people will accept that, and not use it as further proof to add a good Stoning into the punishment. After all, all I said was "that was a lovely bit of Halibut, that would be fit for Jehova....)

Amen Mick, thanks and I agree. We are all Spurs supporters after all (regardless of the insults about being Man U/Arse fans)...I'm going to try and bow out...BTW mate, how's your health? All good?

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

About balance really isnt it?

Ive no issue with a player jumping a challenge, better that than the potential injury that could follow.

I dont like players diving though. These are two entirely separate things.

Irrespective of your views on this particular incident with Bale it happens quite frequently these days.

I dont agree that because other teams gain an advantage through cheating it justifies us doing it at all, I would rather a little more integrity from my team.

Bale gets the focus for it right now because IMO he is the worst offender (perhaps understandably given his role) and also because its a relatively new trait in him. Early last season he rode challenges well and didnt roll around feigning agony whenever anyone went near him.

For some reason this forum turns one incident into the entire crux of an ar3gument, with radically polarised sides hammering each other. Very odd, because it wouldnt work like that in person.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I'm just making a point. Parker seems allowed to get away with winning free kicks when miscontrolling or taking to long to release the ball yet he is absolved of blame. This is as a result of his inability to contribute in a positive manner to attacking/ possession football. Bale gets a lot of stick for going to ground easily or to avoid contact when he is trying to advance forward and attack, not because he has made a mistake or misjudgement.

Whats has Parker done to upset you? Did he shag your girlfriend or something?

 

[punk_is_back`]

Whats has Parker done to upset you? Did he shag your girlfriend or something?

Why act so childish over this; why are you taking it personally when I criticise Parker. Why are you so emotionally invested in a player that has barely spent half a season at our club. People are criticising bale yet the people who defend bale don't retort to this. Some people seem to react in a very defensive childlike manner when Parker is criticised and cannot accept that he has his faults as a player.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Steff, it probably best left.
The pious obsessives will not look at any other view, or consider any other points, and the black and white nature of their POV doesn't brook any reason or argument. They would all be quite happy for Bale to charge around at breakneck pace and take any amount of brutality, without taking any form of defensive manouevres - and no doubt will sleep soundly in their beds whilst he recovers from a double break in one of his ankles or legs, and becomes a shadow of the talent that he is today - like Ramsey at Goonville.

I think you and I - and the other defenders of his behaviour can see it for what it was, without ever considering the fact that taking evasive action from a demented centre back, hell bent on death and destruction one foot from the sideline (whilst motoring like Usain Bolt with a ball at his feet,) differs somewhat from deliberately courting a foul in a crowded penalty box.

I think he was embarassed that he got it wrong, and tried to cover it up, rather than putting his hands up, but that's all that is reprehensible about the incident.

The pious and pure of soul will continue their preaching as long as we perpetuate any form of defence. The smaller minded ones will continue to use our attempts at providing mitigating arguments as full and frank confessions of heresy to the memory of the Glory Glory game, and we will be sentenced to burn at the stake for forsaking the teachings of the good book of Nicholson.

I have heard that we will be torched wearing Arse*** shirts (eternal damnation) on a pyre of Emirates matchday programmes.

(NB - this post is intended to intoduce a little levity into a turgid thread that is becoming tedious by the minute, hopefully people will accept that, and not use it as further proof to add a good Stoning into the punishment. After all, all I said was "that was a lovely bit of Halibut, that would be fit for Jehova....)

You could say the same about the people who are defending him. And we are not saying that we want him to ride tackles and end up breaking his leg, we just want him to not fall to the ground when there actually isn't any contact, I don't think it's asking too much. Every team has at least 1 player who dives, but I'm not concerned about them, I care about Spurs players and I want them to avoid diving at all costs if they can. I think it is Redknapp and possibly the other Spurs players responsibility to highlight the fact that Bale gets kicked a lot, maybe we might see a few red cards instead of yellows. He should talk about it in the press during the buildup to a game against Everton or Stoke for example.

 

[africanspurs]

if this was the first time he's done it then ok but how can you just totally ignore the other times he's done the same thing?

i'm not , and to be honest he isnt nearly as bad as some seeeerious culprits. shades of grey and all that. if someone slides in on our talisman intentionally looking to either put him off his stride else take him out and this causes our talisman to lose an advantage then i wouldnt be too tinkled off if he drops to regain the advantage he would have had without the intimidation. i dont like needless diving...ala suarez ....but bale gets kicked to the point that he needs to be cautious of every challenge...and if some challenges carry extra weight because of previous offenses then make them guys putting in the flimflam challenges pay.


its like the skrtel challenge, i thought that was a decent booking...had bale actually decided to go for the ball (cause he would have gotten it first ) he would have DEFINATELY been caught studs flying .

so drop and roll son, so that guy doesnt keep getting away with that nonsense. if someone keeps coming at you aggressively and you have to keep jumping to save your life you have to let the ref know that brick is dangerous

by the way, they play like pussies in spain......if messi was here he'd be diving too...case in point every single time he's come up against teams looking to REALLY hurt him...he'll jump , drop and roll at phantom challenges....del horno anyone?

 

[Jurgen the German]

Why act so childish over this; why are you taking it personally when I criticise Parker. Why are you so emotionally invested in a player that has barely spent half a season at our club. People are criticising bale yet the people who defend bale don't retort to this. Some people seem to react in a very defensive childlike manner when Parker is criticised and cannot accept that he has his faults as a player.

He does have faults. Not one person has argued that he doesn't. He isn't the most gifted technically. But he wins the ball back, makes life easier for our defence and does the nitty gritty things so Modric doesn't have to. But you just won't give him any credit whatsoever. You gave him a 6 out of 10 for Monday night despite him getting man of the match and rave reviews from pundits,fans of other clubs and most of the people on this board. And to top it off, you bring him into a discussion about Gareth Bale despite there being no need to. I can accept you don't rate him, but you don't ever let an opportunity to belittle him go by.

 

[africanspurs]

Why act so childish over this; why are you taking it personally when I criticise Parker. Why are you so emotionally invested in a player that has barely spent half a season at our club. People are criticising bale yet the people who defend bale don't retort to this. Some people seem to react in a very defensive childlike manner when Parker is criticised and cannot accept that he has his faults as a player.

why do you want parker contributing in an attacking manner anyway? just curious.....some could say that , intelligent runs & spatial awareness aside, sandro offers even less....and you like him. how come?

parker as he is hasnt surprised me one bit, i knew he was this good. what i didnt know was that by the end of it all i would prefer him in our team for THIS year ahead of Diarra. i dont think Diarra would have been this good for us DEFENSIVELY

 

[punk_is_back`]

why do you want parker contributing in an attacking manner anyway? just curious.....some could say that , intelligent runs & spatial awareness aside, sandro offers even less....and you like him. how come?

parker as he is hasnt surprised me one bit, i knew he was this good. what i didnt know was that by the end of it all i would prefer him in our team for THIS year ahead of Diarra. i dont think Diarra would have been this good for us DEFENSIVELY

African i thought you of all people would understand the subtleties in football. Parker does well defensively; when he is needed against teams like city/utd etc. However he doesn't release the ball quickly enough to players like modric/vdv and sometimes runs with the ball into a dead end rather than giving the easy pass to a more creative team mate. Its not that I want him dribbling up field and threading through balls; I want him to give the ball quickly and efficiently to players who can and he doesn't do that. His lack of vision greatly impacts on our ability to transition defence into attack; that is why we are not cleaning out teams nor winning by convincing margins like we used too.

 

[ArcspacE]

#-o#-o](*,)](*,)

He DID TAKE A STEP FIRST, whilst running at HIGH-SPEED, with his right foot, to avoid what he thought was coming given the line Agger had taken onto him, and in doing so he went over. At no time was Agger ever going to get that ball, he wear all about Bale...

No need to bang your nut, Steff

He took a step with his LEFT first then dived. Fact. At no point did his running path change direction or trajectory.

 

[punk_is_back`]

He does have faults. Not one person has argued that he doesn't. He isn't the most gifted technically. But he wins the ball back, makes life easier for our defence and does the nitty gritty things so Modric doesn't have to. But you just won't give him any credit whatsoever. You gave him a 6 out of 10 for Monday night despite him getting man of the match and rave reviews from pundits,fans of other clubs and most of the people on this board. And to top it off, you bring him into a discussion about Gareth Bale despite there being no need to. I can accept you don't rate him, but you don't ever let an opportunity to belittle him go by.

A lot of people have been instantly dismissive and defensive back to when I first started criticising him. It felt like insulting Parker was like insulting someone's dad or brother.

 

[Jurgen the German]

A lot of people have been instantly dismissive and defensive back to when I first started criticising him. It felt like insulting Parker was like insulting someone's dad or brother.

The problem is, you haven't stopped criticising him from the day he signed until now. You can't give him any sort of credit without it being a backhanded comment, something along the lines of "good performance from a limited player". We aren't the best team in the league, we don't blow teams away every week like Madrid or Barca do, therefore we need at least 1 midfielder who tackles and takes pressure off the back four. You say he limits us going forward and we don't smash teams like we used to, but we are beating the smaller teams that we struggled against last season. Name me 1 great international or club side past or present that didn't have an effective/great defensive midfielder?

 

[thfcsteff]

African i thought you of all people would understand the subtleties in football. Parker does well defensively; when he is needed against teams like city/utd etc. However he doesn't release the ball quickly enough to players like modric/vdv and sometimes runs with the ball into a dead end rather than giving the easy pass to a more creative team mate. Its not that I want him dribbling up field and threading through balls; I want him to give the ball quickly and efficiently to players who can and he doesn't do that. His lack of vision greatly impacts on our ability to transition defence into attack; that is why we are not cleaning out teams nor winning by convincing margins like we used too.

LOL...I suppose the fact that Scott Parker has been on a losing Tottenham Hotspur side ONCE this season (that's from Sept 1 to Feb 8th), is lauded by Friedel et al as a leader, and has contributed to our best Premiership season in, what, 15 years, means less than his lack of vision? You take the good with the bad, and I'll take what parker brings not what he doesn't. Ferguson told me that once when i criticized Paul Ince, you take players for what they give you not what they don't.

 

[thfcsteff]

No need to bang your nut, Steff

He took a step with his LEFT first then dived. Fact. At no point did his running path change direction or trajectory.

His RIGHT foot. Look again. I implore you. When you looks face-on at Bale running towards you, remember, that left foot is actually his RIGHT...again, look carefully...or agree to disagree. again, if you insist the you're right and the rest of us all are all goners in disguise, I'm happy to childishly go on forever!!! ;-) ;-)

 

[punk_is_back`]

The problem is, you haven't stopped criticising him from the day he signed until now. You can't give him any sort of credit without it being a backhanded comment, something along the lines of "good performance from a limited player". We aren't the best team in the league, we don't blow teams away every week like Madrid or Barca do, therefore we need at least 1 midfielder who tackles and takes pressure off the back four. You say he limits us going forward and we don't smash teams like we used to, but we are beating the smaller teams that we struggled against last season. Name me 1 great international or club side past or present that didn't have an effective/great defensive midfielder?

The thing is people like Makelele and Deschamps were brilliant at releasing the bal simply to the attacking players quick and efficiently. I appreciate true defensive midfield footballer players who can win balls back via clever interceptions and smart tackling rather than those who dived in to every tackle and concede possession. Having ball players deep allows teams to attack before the opposition has time to regroup. Parker takes too long to do this or decides to take the attacking initiative himself. If we had someone as DM who could reach these players quicker we would play better football. We played well when Parker did this at the start of the season against liverpool; and when Livermore played it simple against everton we played a brilliant game of football. Now livermore is not as good a pure defender as Parker, but when we need to break down teams like Wolves or have a calm head in midfield to dicate the tempo like we could have done against Liverpool away Parker is not that man. Someone who passes quicker and more efficiently would be better. I would rather a Carrick/Hudd to play in these sort of games than someone who's only qualities are purely defensive..