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Football and Politics
- Thread starter THFC6061
- Start date
chicken_badge
Gudni Bergsson
Re: Racist Egyptian Must Play in Tel Aviv
I don't share THFC6061s views. And I don't necessarily condone him sharing them on here. But I do know that the friction (to put it bloody lightly) between the Israelis and non-Israelis in that part of the world is very big and very sensitive.
Both sides will play the victim and - IMHO - it is true, in that both sides have been hit hard at times. I can see the logic behind the Egyptian not wanting to play or shake hands and I can see why an Israeli might be offended. This is deep, deep stuff and whilst its possible Phil is being OTT by starting these threads in a forum that is largely supposed to be about football from a THFC point of view, I don't think his view of racism has the same starting point as most people on here, who are UK / USA based and have a different experience of friction between people. Not better, not worse , just different.
I don't share THFC6061s views. And I don't necessarily condone him sharing them on here. But I do know that the friction (to put it bloody lightly) between the Israelis and non-Israelis in that part of the world is very big and very sensitive.
Both sides will play the victim and - IMHO - it is true, in that both sides have been hit hard at times. I can see the logic behind the Egyptian not wanting to play or shake hands and I can see why an Israeli might be offended. This is deep, deep stuff and whilst its possible Phil is being OTT by starting these threads in a forum that is largely supposed to be about football from a THFC point of view, I don't think his view of racism has the same starting point as most people on here, who are UK / USA based and have a different experience of friction between people. Not better, not worse , just different.
Hootnow
Jermaine Jenas
Re: Racist Egyptian Must Play in Tel Aviv
So this is your view for that and yet you find it ok to tar all Palestinians/ people called Mohamed with the same brush. No irony in that at all.
He doesn't know their political views. That's kind of the point of a boycott though. I'm sure some people boycotted in apartheid south Africa hated the system. I'm.sure a lot of people in Iraq weren't too happy with saddam. Didn't stop the west sanctioning the hell out of them.
And for a man who portrays himself as a man of science and reason scara, that is, with all die respect, appalling reasoning. I know 3 Mohameds well enough to know what they get up to in their personal lives.2 of them are pot smoking, alcohol drinking bacon guzzling agnostics/ atheists. The other is relatively religious. I know however it would be incredibly silly to judge Mohamed based on that.
You've made your views on this very clear before. Because of one election in which the Palestinians elected hamas, the Palestinians are all frothing Islamic terrorists. In contrast to this, the Israelis.are the secular, western people with reason. Bish bosh done.
So this is your view for that and yet you find it ok to tar all Palestinians/ people called Mohamed with the same brush. No irony in that at all.
He doesn't know their political views. That's kind of the point of a boycott though. I'm sure some people boycotted in apartheid south Africa hated the system. I'm.sure a lot of people in Iraq weren't too happy with saddam. Didn't stop the west sanctioning the hell out of them.
And for a man who portrays himself as a man of science and reason scara, that is, with all die respect, appalling reasoning. I know 3 Mohameds well enough to know what they get up to in their personal lives.2 of them are pot smoking, alcohol drinking bacon guzzling agnostics/ atheists. The other is relatively religious. I know however it would be incredibly silly to judge Mohamed based on that.
You've made your views on this very clear before. Because of one election in which the Palestinians elected hamas, the Palestinians are all frothing Islamic terrorists. In contrast to this, the Israelis.are the secular, western people with reason. Bish bosh done.
Hootnow
Jermaine Jenas
Re: Racist Egyptian Must Play in Tel Aviv
Please tell me you're joking?
I couldn't care less if he's muslin or not, it is you and the op who assumed his religion was the reason for his actions.
If he is a practicing Muslim, he most certainly isn't perfect. And there's more than enough criticisms to level at both Islam the religion and Muslims as a group.
To label him an Islamo fascist however and assume his religion is the reason is hilarious.
Please tell me you're joking?
I couldn't care less if he's muslin or not, it is you and the op who assumed his religion was the reason for his actions.
If he is a practicing Muslim, he most certainly isn't perfect. And there's more than enough criticisms to level at both Islam the religion and Muslims as a group.
To label him an Islamo fascist however and assume his religion is the reason is hilarious.
King of Norway
Gudni Bergsson
Re: Racist Egyptian Must Play in Tel Aviv
It's a shame he didn't refuse to play against us because of our 'jewish connection'. He tore us apart, especially at the Lane.
It's a shame he didn't refuse to play against us because of our 'jewish connection'. He tore us apart, especially at the Lane.
ShelfLife
Clive Wilson
Re: Racist Egyptian Must Play in Tel Aviv
:ross:
Well that's that done then. Next thread.
:ross:
Well that's that done then. Next thread.
Yid (Israel)
Carlo Cudicini
Re: Racist Egyptian Must Play in Tel Aviv
Don't think it's "racism" per say, but what about unnecessarily bringing politics into football? This game could have been a symbol for peace, his behaviour is just wrong and I hope Maccabi supporters boo the brick out of him.
Kingdawson why are you looking so hard for "proof" that this happened? I saw the game, he didn't shake their hands. Do you really need video evidence? trust me, he didn't.
Don't think it's "racism" per say, but what about unnecessarily bringing politics into football? This game could have been a symbol for peace, his behaviour is just wrong and I hope Maccabi supporters boo the brick out of him.
Kingdawson why are you looking so hard for "proof" that this happened? I saw the game, he didn't shake their hands. Do you really need video evidence? trust me, he didn't.
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Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
Re: Racist Egyptian Must Play in Tel Aviv
I agree it isn't racist,
Him not shaking don't isnt racist, its a political act really. Just like James McClean refusing to wear the poppy.
I agree it isn't racist,
Him not shaking don't isnt racist, its a political act really. Just like James McClean refusing to wear the poppy.
Re: Racist Egyptian Must Play in Tel Aviv
I think it can be politically motivated AND also be racist. I think that the term "racism" is banded about all too easily these days but it seems applicable here. He's essentially just judging a group of people by their nationality, just because that is also a political stance shouldn't make it ok.
I think it can be politically motivated AND also be racist. I think that the term "racism" is banded about all too easily these days but it seems applicable here. He's essentially just judging a group of people by their nationality, just because that is also a political stance shouldn't make it ok.
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
Re: Racist Egyptian Must Play in Tel Aviv
The likelihood is that almost all those players have done their military service in the Israeli army. That's why he can judge them as not just being of a nationality or a race. That's why it is a valid political act.
The likelihood is that almost all those players have done their military service in the Israeli army. That's why he can judge them as not just being of a nationality or a race. That's why it is a valid political act.
THFC6061
Paul Robinson
Re: Racist Egyptian Must Play in Tel Aviv
Pish and Tosh.
The current Maccabi Tel Aviv team consists of players from a wide variety of backgrounds including Israeli Arabs (Maharan Radi, Moanes Dabour, Hasan Abu Zaid, Osher Abu) who are both Muslims and Christians, Europeans from Spain, Sweden and Serbia, a Canadian and a Nigerian.
None of the above players will have done National Service in Israel.
Pish and Tosh.
The current Maccabi Tel Aviv team consists of players from a wide variety of backgrounds including Israeli Arabs (Maharan Radi, Moanes Dabour, Hasan Abu Zaid, Osher Abu) who are both Muslims and Christians, Europeans from Spain, Sweden and Serbia, a Canadian and a Nigerian.
None of the above players will have done National Service in Israel.
Yid (Israel)
Carlo Cudicini
Re: Racist Egyptian Must Play in Tel Aviv
Teams like Maccabi are a model of coexistence. It's a pity that this Egyptian **** doesn't want to be open minded and insults an entire team because of their passport. It's all there is to it IMO.
What about fair play? Isn't football supposed to open doors and hearts, to disregard past problems for the sake of sportsmanship?
Teams like Maccabi are a model of coexistence. It's a pity that this Egyptian **** doesn't want to be open minded and insults an entire team because of their passport. It's all there is to it IMO.
What about fair play? Isn't football supposed to open doors and hearts, to disregard past problems for the sake of sportsmanship?
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Kingdawson
Banned
Re: Racist Egyptian Must Play in Tel Aviv
nevermind.
nevermind.
Re: Racist Egyptian Must Play in Tel Aviv
It is not about the nationalities of the individual players, rather that of the club. The club represents its nation irrespective of players (Arsenal are still an English club and represent the country when they play in Europe regardless of how many Englishmen actually play for them).
It is perfectly understandable to have a secular objection to Israel on political grounds and as such to object to playing in that country, or respecting opponents who represent a team from that country and hence represent the country itself.
In fact, refusing to shake hands with any of the players indicates that Salah is actually NOT racist - surely he would have only avoided the hands of the Jewish Israelis if that was the case?
The label 'racist' should not be bandied about like this. It makes a mockery of the actual racism that takes place throughout the world. Putting it in the title of the thread gives authority to the rather spurious claim that Salah is a racist, someone should not be branded a racist unless it is proven beyond reasonable doubt.
It is not about the nationalities of the individual players, rather that of the club. The club represents its nation irrespective of players (Arsenal are still an English club and represent the country when they play in Europe regardless of how many Englishmen actually play for them).
It is perfectly understandable to have a secular objection to Israel on political grounds and as such to object to playing in that country, or respecting opponents who represent a team from that country and hence represent the country itself.
In fact, refusing to shake hands with any of the players indicates that Salah is actually NOT racist - surely he would have only avoided the hands of the Jewish Israelis if that was the case?
The label 'racist' should not be bandied about like this. It makes a mockery of the actual racism that takes place throughout the world. Putting it in the title of the thread gives authority to the rather spurious claim that Salah is a racist, someone should not be branded a racist unless it is proven beyond reasonable doubt.
THFC6061
Paul Robinson
Re: Racist Egyptian Must Play in Tel Aviv
I was responding to the spurious claim that Tel Aviv's players had all served in the IDF.
In any case, the Egyptians also have compulsory military service, as do the vast majority of Arab and Islamic states.
The eagerness to defend and apologise for racist actions by some on here is really quite shocking.
I was responding to the spurious claim that Tel Aviv's players had all served in the IDF.
In any case, the Egyptians also have compulsory military service, as do the vast majority of Arab and Islamic states.
The eagerness to defend and apologise for racist actions by some on here is really quite shocking.
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Yid (Israel)
Carlo Cudicini
Re: Racist Egyptian Must Play in Tel Aviv
Beitar are definitely racists and are the club most identified with the extreme right wing in Israel. So? They are despised by most and everytime something related happens with them there's a media outrage here. Doesn't make what Salah did OK, and you should condemn racists on both sides and not just "the other side" tbh.
Beitar are definitely racists and are the club most identified with the extreme right wing in Israel. So? They are despised by most and everytime something related happens with them there's a media outrage here. Doesn't make what Salah did OK, and you should condemn racists on both sides and not just "the other side" tbh.
THFC6061
Paul Robinson
Re: Racist Egyptian Must Play in Tel Aviv
My opposition to Beitar Jerusalem's racists fans is well documented.
Here's just one example from a Nottingham Forest Forum a couple of years ago...
http://www.forestforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=24563
Whenever there is a thread about them on here, you can guarantee that I'll be among the first to comment.
But this thread isn't about them, so why try to change the subject under discussion?
My opposition to Beitar Jerusalem's racists fans is well documented.
Here's just one example from a Nottingham Forest Forum a couple of years ago...
http://www.forestforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=24563
Whenever there is a thread about them on here, you can guarantee that I'll be among the first to comment.
But this thread isn't about them, so why try to change the subject under discussion?
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