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Football and Homophobia

PR is exactly what it was.

Player makes a statement that COULD have been homophobic. It is widely reported. Player arrives under a cloud. Player (club) makes statement to head off potential issues around such going forward. It is painfully obvious.

The starting point was that it may or may not have been homophobic - but could most certainly have been seen as such. NOT that it was accepted as such.

There is nuance around this which simply eludes you, or you refuse to acknowledge.
 
The one where they took it as homophobic language, but chose a balanced and mature response?

Perhaps if you are taking their lead on the nature of the offense you should also follow their lead on a response ;)

And if you read it a little closer, only Proud Lillywhites "accept" anything. Not the club, nor Aurier. And they state it was "homophobic language", not "a homophobic slur", and wish to interact with Aurier and educate him. Which doesnt indicate a certainty of his intent at all, they leave room for the fact it could well have been ignorance that requires education.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
PR is exactly what it was.

Player makes a statement that COULD have been homophobic. It is widely reported. Player arrives under a cloud. Player (club) makes statement to head off potential issues around such going forward. It is painfully obvious.

The starting point was that it may or may not have been homophobic - but could most certainly have been seen as such. NOT that it was accepted as such.

There is nuance around this which simply eludes you, or you refuse to acknowledge.
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You are suggesting that the Club and Aurier does not accept his words are homophobic? And that their statement is just spin to head off criticism? I simply do not believe this.

As for my failure to understand the nuance of your argument, it not I don't understand it. I just think it is completely wrong and I don't accept it

There is a well established case law in hate crimes, that the test is not whether the defendant (Aurier) meant it but whether the victims (many people across the world) thought it was homophobic and then if they did, was it reasonable for the victims to believe that?

You seem to acknowledge that some people could believe it as homophobic and that it would be reasonable for them to do so. Ergo Aurier's statement, in law at least, is homophobic.

I would suggest the Club know this without having to get legal advice. I am sure they would accept that Aurier's comments were homophobic and their statement is genuine and not in any way disingenuous as you suggest.
 
JPBB said:
The starting point for that positive statement was an acceptance by everyone that Aurier's words were homophobic. The Proud Lilywhites, the Club, Stonewall and presumably Aurier himself all acknowledge that his words were homophobic.

On this board, I can't see any acknowledgement of the homophobic nature of his words. So deep rooted is the belief that his words were not homophobic, I see posts suggesting that the Clubs statement was a only PR exercise to head off potential criticism.

There is a problem with homophobia on this board.
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The problem maybe, just maybe with regard to the to the dictatorial attitude of deliverer. Rather that the message he is striving to convey. Just a thought!
 
You appear to read a lot of what you want to hear into peoples words - things that make them fit your view point - in this instance on both sides - its kind of amazing.

"You are suggesting that the Club and Aurier does not accept his words are homophobic? And that their statement is just spin to head off criticism? I simply do not believe this."

can you provide any statement from the club that supports that they accept his words are homophobic?


Are you a UK native?
 
JPBB said:
You are suggesting that the Club and Aurier does not accept his words are homophobic? And that their statement is just spin to head off criticism? I simply do not believe this.

As for my failure to understand the nuance of your argument, it not I don't understand it. I just think it is completely wrong and I don't accept it

There is a well established case law in hate crimes, that the test is not whether the defendant (Aurier) meant it but whether the victims (many people across the world) thought it was homophobic and then if they did, was it reasonable for the victims to believe that?

You seem to acknowledge that some people could believe it as homophobic and that it would be reasonable for them to do so. Ergo Aurier's statement, in law at least, is homophobic.

I would suggest the Club know this without having to get legal advice. I am sure they would accept that Aurier's comments were homophobic and their statement is genuine and not in any way disingenuous as you suggest.
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I am suggesting a business in the public eye has had the foresight to see a new employee has negative press against him that could cause issue, and so have taken steps to mitigate that. As simple as that. Which neither accepts nor denies his words were homophobic. It makes no statement on that at all - it only recognises the feedback he was getting and acts in accordance.

Is using homophbic words the same as a homophobic slur? I say not.

I say it is quite possible to say something that could be seen as such through sheer ignorance with no ill intent whatsoever.

And, I say, that being the case recognition of intent is extremely important. Especially when deciding whether or not to be offended, and if so to which degree. And whether or not you should campaign the home secretary in an attempt to have his work permit refused because of it.

Youve gone way off the deep end on this without just cause. You have reacted as though he has been preaching hate against homosexuality like some extremist preacher in the street. He simply hasnt. In fact there is enough ambiguity in the circumstance to question whether or not he even realised the way his words could be recieved.

Proud lillywhites appear to recognise exactly this. They took issue with his words, and want him educated - NOT PUNISHED - as a result. Do you think if they saw his comments as a genuine hate crime they would have taken such a stance?

I dont. I think they would have vehemently opposed the move and at the very least very publically petitioned the move in an attempt to sway the club against the transaction.

These are people that have built a very good relationship with the club to promote something they believe in deeply, I cannot imagine them taking it well if they really saw his comments as you do.

That they havent really should give you pause for thought, but as youve been getting more and more hyped about it for a few days straight Im guessing it wont.


r-u-s-x said:
Are you a UK native?
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Pretty sure he's a millenial.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I am suggesting a business in the public eye has had the foresight to see a new employee has negative press against him that could cause issue, and so have taken steps to mitigate that. As simple as that. Which neither accepts nor denies his words were homophobic. It makes no statement on that at all - it only recognises the feedback he was getting and acts in accordance.

Is using homophbic words the same as a homophobic slur? I say not.

I say it is quite possible to say something that could be seen as such through sheer ignorance with no ill intent whatsoever.

And, I say, that being the case recognition of intent is extremely important. Especially when deciding whether or not to be offended, and if so to which degree. And whether or not you should campaign the home secretary in an attempt to have his work permit refused because of it.

Youve gone way off the deep end on this without just cause. You have reacted as though he has been preaching hate against homosexuality like some extremist preacher in the street. He simply hasnt. In fact there is enough ambiguity in the circumstance to question whether or not he even realised the way his words could be recieved.

Proud lillywhites appear to recognise exactly this. They took issue with his words, and want him educated - NOT PUNISHED - as a result. Do you think if they saw his comments as a genuine hate crime they would have taken such a stance?

I dont. I think they would have vehemently opposed the move and at the very least very publically petitioned the move in an attempt to sway the club against the transaction.

These are people that have built a very good relationship with the club to promote something they believe in deeply, I cannot imagine them taking it well if they really saw his comments as you do.

That they havent really should give you pause for thought, but as youve been getting more and more hyped about it for a few days straight Im guessing it wont.




Pretty sure he's a millenial.
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The only logical conclusion given the positive message from PL is that both club and the Aurier accept the language was homophobic and he is remorseful.

You and the others that refuse to accept his words were homophobic can not be educated which puts you a little way behind Aurier on this matter.
 
Massive fan of Yermiyahu's new look. A work of divine moderation?

@JPBB thanks for making us more aware of our language. Maybe learn from more respected LGBT commentators who are more inclusive and less divisive in approach. Personally, I am trying not to write things that you'd take the wrong way.
 
JPBB said:
The only logical conclusion given the positive message from PL is that both club and the Aurier accept the language was homophobic and he is remorseful.

You and the others that refuse to accept his words were homophobic can not be educated which puts you a little way behind Aurier on this matter.
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Hahaha you are such a piece of cheese on the end of a babyBELL
 
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JPBB said:
The starting point for that positive statement was an acceptance by everyone that Aurier's words were homophobic. The Proud Lilywhites, the Club, Stonewall and presumably Aurier himself all acknowledge that his words were homophobic.

On this board, I can't see any acknowledgement of the homophobic nature of his words. So deep rooted is the belief that his words were not homophobic, I see posts suggesting that the Clubs statement was a only PR exercise to head off potential criticism.

There is a problem with homophobia on this board.
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There's a dogmatic judgmental tone to many of your posts on this matter. Ironically the sort of tone which is decried by the lobby you seem to be supporting when it comes to other issues.

For maybe the fourth time of asking, I would value your input as to an actual definition/understanding of 'homophobia' seeing as you seem to be so glad and eager to sling it around as a weapon.
Also I don't recall anyone saying Stephen Fry thought homophobia was ok. I believe I was the only person to reference him and that was to present an example of a certain perspective upon the taking of offence.
 
JPBB said:
The starting point for that positive statement was an acceptance by everyone that Aurier's words were homophobic. The Proud Lilywhites, the Club, Stonewall and presumably Aurier himself all acknowledge that his words were homophobic.
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Why is that the conclusion that you have reached? How do you know that those groups were consulted and came to that conclusion? Why is this more likely than the club recognised that this was something that had been discussed on social media, on message boards and some fans (rightly) have concerns about and put out a conciliatory statement to try and put the story to bed?
 
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GinolaGinolaGinola said:
Guys the easy thing to do is just ignore him now, seriously. He will go on and on and on and on and clearly doesn't listen to any of our opinions, is a bit of a taco, boring and actually has no point to any of his posts.

Please just let his posts fall on deaf ears, and that will be the end of it and hopefully he will bugger off.
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Followed by...

GinolaGinolaGinola said:
Hahaha you are such a piece of cheese on the end of a babyBELL
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= biggest laugh all day :D
 
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