Fazio and Stambouli Needed

[DubaiSpur]

Musacchio and Moreno are very different type players to Fazio. They would have been Chiriches' replacement (small/cultured), whereas Fazio was Dawson/Kaboul's (power/height)

I like Schneiderlin, but he's become very overrated by our fans. He's really not that much better than the Mason, Bentaleb, Stambouli trio

Re: Fazio, perhaps, and that's certainly plausible. But the point I was making is that Ossie isn't the gold standard for judging whether a manager really wanted a player he bought/was roughly given: a lot of people said a lot of things about Poch's signings, not least of all Poch himself. Doesn't mean we should believe it, especially when dear old Andre came out and exposed the very complex world behind the bland statements a manager at this club is forced to make to the press and to people connected with it.

And as for Schneiderlin, admittedly a bit of the 'Modric' factor is still present (people are still crying out for a deep-lying playmaker a la Modric, and hence any somewhat Modric-ish player tends to be overrated), but I think you severely underestimate the player by judging him as being roughly on par with Mason, Bentaleb and Stambouli - he is worlds better than them at this point in time (hell, that stats comparison website - Squawka, I think: is an easy tool to use to compare Schneiderlin against all these players, and he comfortably comes out on top), and Southampton would be much worse off without him.

And Stambouli doesn't come close to him, imo. There is a reason he cost as little as he did.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Poch has rotated players based on form this season. I would expect Dier, Townsend and possibly Mason to make way for our next game.

I've been expecting Dier to make way for Fazio for a while now.

how about they are his signings but they just havent delivered what he wants from them, not yet anyway......many managers buy many players that dont deliver what was originally expected

Which is a strange line of argument to pursue, given that the general consensus on this board is that both players have performed well enough to be selected more than they have been, particularly in Fazio's case. How is that 'not delivering what he wants'?

It is just silly to assume that Poch is keeping Fazio out because he didn't deliver what Poch wants from a player in that position - barring some silly errors, he's been better than Dier. The reasons for why he's not been selected are thus more directly tied to Poch possibly not wanting either Fazio or Stambouli very much in the first place.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I felt we really missed these two today

Fazio should have started - to deal with United's long balls and to marshal the line. I really rate Dier, but our defence has looked nowhere near as secure since the Fazio-Verts partnership has been broken up. It's right to use Dier against teams that break quickly - Liverpool and Arsenal etc., but Fazio needs to play in all the other big games.

And we needed Stambouli as a 3rd CM when it became clear that Masaleb were struggling. Stambouli is the player to allow us to go 4-3-2-1 like we needed to. Like Fazio, he also seems to possess great organising skills, which we needed to cope with the creative positioning of Fellini and Blind.

Anyone know where these two are then (not on the bench when Chiriches and Paulinho were). Unfit, out of form, or out of favour?

I think your spot on here

 

[monkeybarry]

if he doesn't fancy them, fine (although i disagree) - but does he really think Chiriches or Paulinho are better options!?
If so, then he clearly know nothing about football.

 

[DubaiSpur]

if he doesn't fancy them, fine (although i disagree) - but does he really think Chiriches or Paulinho are better options!?
If so, then he clearly know nothing about football.

Probably not, given that he doesn't play Chiriches in the middle anymore, and generally sticks to Bentaleb-Mason over selecting either Paulinho or Stambouli in important roles. What he's done is rotate very little after that initial shake-up, and I suspect that a lot of that lack of rotation is down to the fact that he doesn't fancy most of the players in our side, Stambouli and Fazio included.

 

[harr1984]

I am still perplexed as to why Fazio was all of a sudden dropped. Him and Verts had developed a good solid partnership and whilst he made a few errors I loved how he dominated everything in the air. There was no need to change that pairing IMO....

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Schneiderlain was outstanding today vs chelsea

 

[monkeybarry]

I agree with that Dubai - but Chiriches was clearly a CB cover today. Therefore ahead of Fazio.

Dembele is his choice as a sub for both attcaking MF and CM at the moment, but the fact the other option is Paulinho, puts Paulinho ahead of Stambouli.
Today for example, he chose to drop Dembele back to CM for Mason and bring Lamela, whereas with Satmbouli on the bench he could has gone with a like for like swap. Paulinho is there to make up the numbers, but is there ahead of Stambouli who isn't even a number.

I actually think leaving out Fazio and Stambouli was niave by Poch as it didn't really give us anything on the bench that could do a defensive job. (that said - nor did the players on the pitch!)

 

[DubaiSpur]

I agree with that Dubai - but Chiriches was clearly a CB cover today. Therefore ahead of Fazio.

Dembele is his choice as a sub for both attcaking MF and CM at the moment, but the fact the other option is Paulinho, puts Paulinho ahead of Stambouli.
Today for example, he chose to drop Dembele back to CM for Mason and bring Lamela, whereas with Satmbouli on the bench he could has gone with a like for like swap. Paulinho is there to make up the numbers, but is there ahead of Stambouli who isn't even a number.

I actually think leaving out Fazio and Stambouli was niave by Poch as it didn't really give us anything on the bench that could do a defensive job. (that said - nor did the players on the pitch!)

Very fair, and I actually don't have an argument for why they weren't even on the bench today. It can't be injury, Poch keeps giving injury updates to the tune of 'they're all fit'. And even though I highly doubt that he was particularly happy with either Fazio or Stambouli being bought ahead of his more expensive choices, would that stretch to preferring Chiriches and Paulinho over them? If so, damn.

 

[sc25]

What he's done is rotate very little after that initial shake-up, and I suspect that a lot of that lack of rotation is down to the fact that he doesn't fancy most of the players in our side, Stambouli and Fazio included.

Wow, really? Why do you suppose he came here then? According to some, he only has 2 more seasons left here anyway.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Why do you suppose he came here then? According to some, he only has 2 more seasons left here anyway.

Burnish his reputation and then catch the train to Real or Barca, possibly? More Barca than Real: if he can pull off a cantera-based revolution here at Spurs, he'd be able to do wonders with Barca's considerably more prestigious and well-stocked academy, and their Argentinian connection would sit well with Poch. To do this, he needs to succeed at Spurs - and I don't think he can succeed if Levy takes his willingness to compromise as weakness and thus vetoes the players he wants in favour of cheap options. Hence his reluctance to use the squad more extensively, possibly.

 

[Nexus1967]

I would imagine Fazio has been left out because of the errors he made against Chelsea and Fiorentina where he tried to pass the ball in the centre circle and gave it away both times leading directly to a goal each time. And before everyone points out Bentalebs howler today where he played it to Rooney who went on to score we still had 3 defenders back who helpfully let him waltz through and score. When fazio did it he was effectively the last man so when he gave it away it was much easier to score. At least one of our defenders should have blocked Rooney off or tripped him today, I feel its a part of our game that will come with experience. All the top clubs do it, Chelski drove me mad with their cynical trips and blocks in the CC Final but its a tactic all top clubs use to break up play and give themselves time to organise when the other team is threatening to break or build a decent attack. Most of the fouls we give away are born out of frustration when we give the ball away and are chasing back. Kyle Walker is particularly guilty of this, and they always seem to be in dangerous positions where they can whip a ball into the box. Again see Chelskis first goal against us in the CC Final as an example of a needless foul given away in a dangerous position.
Like I said it will be interesting to see who comes and who goes at the end of the season

 

[DubaiSpur]

I would imagine Fazio has been left out because of the errors he made against Chelsea and Fiorentina where he tried to pass the ball in the centre circle and gave it away both times leading directly to a goal each time. And before everyone points out Bentalebs howler today where he played it to Rooney who went on to score we still had 3 defenders back who helpfully let him waltz through and score. When fazio did it he was effectively the last man so when he gave it away it was much easier to score. At least one of our defenders should have blocked Rooney off or tripped him today, I feel its a part of our game that will come with experience. All the top clubs do it, Chelski drove me mad with their cynical trips and blocks in the CC Final but its a tactic all top clubs use to break up play and give themselves time to organise when the other team is threatening to break or build a decent attack. Most of the fouls we give away are born out of frustration when we give the ball away and are chasing back. Kyle Walker is particularly guilty of this, and they always seem to be in dangerous positions where they can whip a ball into the box. Again see Chelskis first goal against us in the CC Final as an example of a needless foul given away in a dangerous position.
Like I said it will be interesting to see who comes and who goes at the end of the season

I think Verts was a bit behind him both times. And while those errors were high-profile ones, on the whole I think he's been more solid than Dier has been. I agree that we need to foul and use gamesmanship a whole lot more though.

 

[Mumorn]

what about vertonghens error in the fiorentina game? the one that killed the tie?

 

[Rorschach]

I would imagine Fazio has been left out because of the errors he made against Chelsea and Fiorentina where he tried to pass the ball in the centre circle and gave it away both times leading directly to a goal each time. And before everyone points out Bentalebs howler today where he played it to Rooney who went on to score we still had 3 defenders back who helpfully let him waltz through and score. When fazio did it he was effectively the last man so when he gave it away it was much easier to score. At least one of our defenders should have blocked Rooney off or tripped him today, I feel its a part of our game that will come with experience. All the top clubs do it, Chelski drove me mad with their cynical trips and blocks in the CC Final but its a tactic all top clubs use to break up play and give themselves time to organise when the other team is threatening to break or build a decent attack. Most of the fouls we give away are born out of frustration when we give the ball away and are chasing back. Kyle Walker is particularly guilty of this, and they always seem to be in dangerous positions where they can whip a ball into the box. Again see Chelskis first goal against us in the CC Final as an example of a needless foul given away in a dangerous position.
Like I said it will be interesting to see who comes and who goes at the end of the season

Yep. Experience and a little cynicism was required at times today. Bentaleb should have taken him out.

 

[Jurgen the German]

our downturn in form is due to bringing chadli back in the team.. our arsenal line up was perfectly balanced.

We beat Swansea with Chadli getting amongst the goals. No Chadli means we have just two players in the starting 11 that can score and as we've seen, more and more teams are focusing on stopping Kane so who is going to step up and score? Lamela? Townsend? Mason? He is a liability defensively but we are hardly blessed with an abundance of match winners.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I felt we really missed these two today

Fazio should have started - to deal with United's long balls and to marshal the line. I really rate Dier, but our defence has looked nowhere near as secure since the Fazio-Verts partnership has been broken up. It's right to use Dier against teams that break quickly - Liverpool and Arsenal etc., but Fazio needs to play in all the other big games.

And we needed Stambouli as a 3rd CM when it became clear that Masaleb were struggling. Stambouli is the player to allow us to go 4-3-2-1 like we needed to. Like Fazio, he also seems to possess great organising skills, which we needed to cope with the creative positioning of Fellini and Blind.

Anyone know where these two are then (not on the bench when Chiriches and Paulinho were). Unfit, out of form, or out of favour?

I've said this in another thread, I don't think it matters who plays in the back four as colletively we are a shambles. I mean seriously, who has played consistently well in the defence this season? I'm not a great fan of Rose, but I would have to say he has been our best defender as the rest have made mistake after mistake.

I agree about Stambouli, would not hurt to give him a run and drop Mason.

 

[Robspur12]

I've said this in another thread, I don't think it matters who plays in the back four as colletively we are a shambles. I mean seriously, who has played consistently well in the defence this season? I'm not a great fan of Rose, but I would have to say he has been our best defender as the rest have made mistake after mistake.

I agree about Stambouli, would not hurt to give him a run and drop Mason.

Unfortunately from what I have seen so far, Stambouli is not the answer either, although there have been some promising signs in his general play. This is a key area that needs strengthening IMO. Bentaleb and mason are too inexperienced at this point to carry the responsibilities on their own. We need experience in there. Really hope in the summer we go all out to sign schneiderlin.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

We need experience in there. Really hope in the summer we go all out to sign schneiderlin.

I think that ship has long left port

 

[Jurgen the German]

Unfortunately from what I have seen so far, Stambouli is not the answer either, although there have been some promising signs in his general play. This is a key area that needs strengthening IMO. Bentaleb and mason are too inexperienced at this point to carry the responsibilities on their own. We need experience in there. Really hope in the summer we go all out to sign schneiderlin.

Spot on. Both look promising, but Mason should be a squad player at this point IMO. Hope he is one for the long term, but we need to upgrade on him at this point.