FA Cup 23/24

[Jurgen the German]

I’m not bitter about United winning or even unhappy about it, I didn’t really care who won yesterday. Like others though I wonder why they can a trophy in back to back seasons with their worst team in decades and we can’t even turn up in a final let alone win one. United deserved it yesterday and were good value for it. Yes we’ve come up against some tough opponents in finals but sometimes you do have to go through at least one really good team in order to win a cup competition, and it’s not like we were blown away in any of those finals, the teams we lost to just got the job done and didn’t even play that well themselves. Let’s hope it’s us celebrating a trophy next season.

 

[DeanoAustin]

I’m not bitter about United winning or even unhappy about it, I didn’t really care who won yesterday. Like others though I wonder why they can a trophy in back to back seasons with their worst team in decades and we can’t even turn up in a final let alone win one. United deserved it yesterday and were good value for it. Yes we’ve come up against some tough opponents in finals but sometimes you do have to go through at least one really good team in order to win a cup competition, and it’s not like we were blown away in any of those finals, the teams we lost to just got the job done and didn’t even play that well themselves. Let’s hope it’s us celebrating a trophy next season.

Yeah it is frustrating. I'd probably have wanted United to win yesterday. Never minded them too much so while I like seeing City deny the clubs I despise (Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal), I don't want them denying anyone else because they're basically cheating.

As for us...United have been in a "downward spiral" since Fergie left and have won 5 trophies and come close in others. They've also managed to win one yesterday at arguably their lowest ebb in that time. We're 16 years without a trophy at this point despite seeing arguably our best team in 40-60 years. It's a pretty damning reflection of the culture of our club if we're being honest.

 

[Daisuk]

Yeah it is frustrating. I'd probably have wanted United to win yesterday. Never minded them too much so while I like seeing City deny the clubs I despise (Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal), I don't want them denying anyone else because they're basically cheating.

As for us...United have been in a "downward spiral" since Fergie left and have won 5 trophies and come close in others. They've also managed to win one yesterday at arguably their lowest ebb in that time. We're 16 years without a trophy at this point despite seeing arguably our best team in 40-60 years. It's a pretty damning reflection of the culture of our club if we're being honest.

It's obviously frustrating as hell, but can we blame it on "culture"? What culture is that? Do we really believe that there's some sort of shadow hanging over the club making every team lose faith in winning something and thereby not winning anything? Is that really it? I don't know. Maybe. Maybe it's part of the answer, but surely we've been unlucky as well. It's pretty incredible that this bricky United team wins a trophy. City playing their worst game in months and months in a final against their rival. Lucky. That CL run in 2019 really deserved the pot, and we were the better team in the final in my opinion, but lady luck is never on our side in these games. It's frustrating.

 

[P.D.]

Thought the interview with ETH was a bit harsh given the moment, could have let him celebrated his glory.

 

[Mcfee]

It's obviously frustrating as hell, but can we blame it on "culture"? What culture is that? Do we really believe that there's some sort of shadow hanging over the club making every team lose faith in winning something and thereby not winning anything? Is that really it? I don't know. Maybe. Maybe it's part of the answer, but surely we've been unlucky as well. It's pretty incredible that this bricky United team wins a trophy. City playing their worst game in months and months in a final against their rival. Lucky. That CL run in 2019 really deserved the pot, and we were the better team in the final in my opinion, but lady luck is never on our side in these games. It's frustrating.

Culture is definitely a factor. If I’m playing for Man Utd I would say - we’re Man U, we win stuff, we don’t feel inferior to anyone. If I’m playing against Tottenham I would think - put the pressure on and they’ll find a way to lose. Unfortunately!
As I keep saying, it’ll take a special coach and group of players to overcome that, to change it permanently is an immense task.

 

[parklane1]

Culture is definitely a factor. If I’m playing for Man Utd I would say - we’re Man U, we win stuff, we don’t feel inferior to anyone. If I’m playing against Tottenham I would think - put the pressure on and they’ll find a way to lose. Unfortunately!
As I keep saying, it’ll take a special coach and group of players to overcome that, to change it permanently is an immense task.

I agree and its all down to mentality and we seem to lack it and have for a very long time [ imo that was why even under Pooch we failed on the big occasions]. Lets hope than under Ange we can change that.

 

[DeanoAustin]

It's obviously frustrating as hell, but can we blame it on "culture"? What culture is that? Do we really believe that there's some sort of shadow hanging over the club making every team lose faith in winning something and thereby not winning anything? Is that really it? I don't know. Maybe. Maybe it's part of the answer, but surely we've been unlucky as well. It's pretty incredible that this bricky United team wins a trophy. City playing their worst game in months and months in a final against their rival. Lucky. That CL run in 2019 really deserved the pot, and we were the better team in the final in my opinion, but lady luck is never on our side in these games. It's frustrating.

I do think it is culture at this point. We’ve lost something like 7 or 8 FA Cup semi finals in a row, we’ve lost 4 finals in a row. Any time we could really put pressure on Leicester or Chelsea for the league, we didn’t. You string all that together, it’s not just bad luck. We may not have been favourites in (m)any of those battles but out of 11 or 12, law of averages, you should win something.

Kane said when he joined Munich that “at Spurs not winning wasn’t a disaster, at Munich you have to win every week.” I think Carrick said something similar when he went to United. Conte and Mourinho both spoke about it. Even Ange has talked about changing the mentality of the club. The talk about Jose’s sacking was that Levy wanted him to prioritise top 4 over the league cup final.

I have always admired Levy’s work at Spurs but I do believe that there is a mentality/culture of “it’s okay as long as we are in the mix for top 4.”

When you put everything together, it’s very hard to argue otherwise.

 

[monkeybarry]

I’m not bitter about United winning or even unhappy about it, I didn’t really care who won yesterday. Like others though I wonder why they can a trophy in back to back seasons with their worst team in decades and we can’t even turn up in a final let alone win one. United deserved it yesterday and were good value for it. Yes we’ve come up against some tough opponents in finals but sometimes you do have to go through at least one really good team in order to win a cup competition, and it’s not like we were blown away in any of those finals, the teams we lost to just got the job done and didn’t even play that well themselves. Let’s hope it’s us celebrating a trophy next season.

Because they're club culture would never see them go into a game wanting anything other than a win.
No successful clubs have that ethos anywhere within it.

 

[SteveAWOL]

I agree and its all down to mentality and we seem to lack it and have for a very long time [ imo that was why even under Pooch we failed on the big occasions]. Lets hope than under Ange we can change that.

At least Eriksen finally got to win a trophy at Wembley…



and all it took was for him to sit on the bench whilst Bruno Fernandes put in the type of masterclass against the odds that our star players have failed to on big occasions stretching back decades; how different things might’ve been if we’d got Fernandes instead of Lo Celso…

https://twitter.com/x/status/1794670922349359131

 

[jts1882]

United have one of the highest wage bills in the PL and have spent a lot of players. It could be they have wasted their money on duds, but they finished third last season. It makes more sense to think that the players have talent but aren't playing well, whether through poor tactics, an unbalanced team, lack of motivation, and not playing for each other or the coach. Then it shouldn't be a surprise that they can raise their game for a big match. Fernandes seems to sum them up,

United have to hope that a lot of it is Ten Hag not putting out the right teams or motivating the players.

 

[SteveAWOL]

It's actually been a ridiculous season in that respect.

- United, despite being dogbrick, have won a trophy we couldn't win since 1991.
- Leverkusen, long dubbed 'Neverkusen' for their inability to win things, won the Bundesliga unbeaten and probably the German Cup roo.
- Atalanta, with a single Coppa Italia in their history, won the Europa League.
- Bilbao, on a long trophy drought, won the Copa Del Rey.

And here we are, puttering along as utterly trophyless wonders as usual. It really is incredible how consistently we fail to win when even random chance should have given us at least one or two pots.

And now Olympiacos have become the first Greek team to win a European trophy which can be added to that list!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1795932952938869206

 

[DubaiSpur]

I agree and its all down to mentality and we seem to lack it and have for a very long time [ imo that was why even under Pooch we failed on the big occasions]. Lets hope than under Ange we can change that.

The question you should ask yourself mate, is where that mentality comes from.

A fish rots from the head down. 23 years of players, managers, even fans coming and going - but only one constant in that time.

Just think about it my friend.

 

[DubaiSpur]

And now Olympiacos have become the first Greek team to win a European trophy which can be added to that list!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1795932952938869206

Yep - and West Ham also won that one last year.

At this rate Leyton Orient will end up winning something before us too.

 

[parklane1]

The question you should ask yourself mate, is where that mentality comes from.

A fish rots from the head down. 23 years of players, managers, even fans coming and going - but only one constant in that time.

Just think about it my friend.

Barking up the wrong tree again as usual i see.

 

[harr1984]

For me I can't think of many bigger mistakes Levy made than sacking Jose right before a fudging cup final (I'm sure some will say appointing him in the first place was a bigger one).

Some saying we would have lost the final regardless, but Man U and Ten Hag showed that you can be heavy underdogs and win a final. Jose apparently wanted to rest some players for the league game so we would be better prepared for the cup final. We have a good record against City considering how dominant they are, Jose had managed us in beating them too. Cant help but wonder, but what I do know is we'd of had more chance than we did with Ryan Mason at the wheel against Pep....

 

[DeanoAustin]

For me I can't think of many bigger mistakes Levy made than sacking Jose right before a fudging cup final (I'm sure some will say appointing him in the first place was a bigger one).

Some saying we would have lost the final regardless, but Man U and Ten Hag showed that you can be heavy underdogs and win a final. Jose apparently wanted to rest some players for the league game so we would be better prepared for the cup final. We have a good record against City considering how dominant they are, Jose had managed us in beating them too. Cant help but wonder, but what I do know is we'd of had more chance than we did with Ryan Mason at the wheel against Pep....

While I wanted Jose gone from around January that year, you’re absolutely right. It was a bonkers decision. Mind boggling. I can’t think of another big club who would have done that.

If the rumours are true about the straw that broke the camels back (ie CL race over a pot) it does add a lot of weight to the arguments of the ENIC-out phalanx.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

While I wanted Jose gone from around January that year, you’re absolutely right. It was a bonkers decision. Mind boggling. I can’t think of another big club who would have done that.

If the rumours are true about the straw that broke the camels back (ie CL race over a pot) it does add a lot of weight to the arguments of the ENIC-out phalanx.

Funnily enough I think the opposite. Given the potential impact of Covid on us as a club - we know how concerned Levy was about it from the outset, possibly more so than other clubs given how much we had riding on the new stadium revenues - it makes sense to me that he would have been focused on getting back into the CL over and above anything else. Of course it didn’t work out but I can see at that time why he would have had that as a priority.

 

[harr1984]

Funnily enough I think the opposite. Given the potential impact of Covid on us as a club - we know how concerned Levy was about it from the outset, possibly more so than other clubs given how much we had riding on the new stadium revenues - it makes sense to me that he would have been focused on getting back into the CL over and above anything else. Of course it didn’t work out but I can see at that time why he would have had that as a priority.

That's fair Glenda, and I must say I do appreciate what Levy has done for this club and so don't want to come across as overly critical. But even if that is the rationale regarding Covid, do you honestly believe Levy would have changed his thinking for any other season this scenario cropped up? And anyway, we are talking about him resting players for a single game, not putting them on their holidays for the rest of the season.

It is abundantly clear that the priority has always been league position because of the monetary upside. And I do understand the reasons why that is important to a self sufficient club such as ours. I also believe he is a genuine fan of the club who wants success. But I really think he dropped a b*lock with that one....

 

[Glenda's Legs]

That's fair Glenda, and I must say I do appreciate what Levy has done for this club and so don't want to come across as overly critical. But even if that is the rationale regarding Covid, do you honestly believe Levy would have changed his thinking for any other season this scenario cropped up? And anyway, we are talking about him resting players for a single game, not putting them on their holidays for the rest of the season.

It is abundantly clear that the priority has always been league position because of the monetary upside. And I do understand the reasons why that is important to a self sufficient club such as ours. I also believe he is a genuine fan of the club who wants success. But I really think he dropped a b*lock with that one....

Well yes. I was being deliberately selective in my reply. I agree the same would probably apply anyway with or without covid but I think the justification that season was clearer.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Funnily enough I think the opposite. Given the potential impact of Covid on us as a club - we know how concerned Levy was about it from the outset, possibly more so than other clubs given how much we had riding on the new stadium revenues - it makes sense to me that he would have been focused on getting back into the CL over and above anything else. Of course it didn’t work out but I can see at that time why he would have had that as a priority.

Yeah, it's a fair point. But I still can't agree with it - sacking a proven trophy winner 6 days before a cup final is not what big clubs do even if Jose was a busted flush for us at that point. He still had a puncher's chance at winning that game - far more so than Mason.

Good business decision? Perhaps. Good football decision? I don't see it.

To be clear, I'm not a Levy basher or ENIC-out merchant by any stretch of the imagination. But every time I praise Levy, I do add the "he's made mistakes" disclaimer. This is one of those mistakes IMO.