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Everton

Lilbaz said:
People are talking more than a points deduction for city.

Ffp is meant to limit a clubs spending. If they break that your punishment would be to limit their spending? Doesn't make sense.
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FFP is fundamentally about maintaining the stability of clubs.

You seem to be arguing only for points deductions. Yet it is evident that this threat has not acted as a deterrant.

Business sanctions, penal spending limits allied to fines and the withholding of prize money is the way I would go. Fight fire with fire and all that.

Let’s have a look at points deductions anyway…

Deducting points in different seasons could cause serious distortions. If we have a scenario where three teams packed with elite players are deducted points in one season for offences over different seasons that is a mess and potentially leaves three other brick teams in the top division.

You also have the issue of the penalty impacting playing staff who had acted in good faith all the while, have contracts based on performance and relegation clauses etc etc. These risk the financial stability of the club in a chaotic way.

Meanwhile cancelling historic titles is utter tripe and no sort of penalty at all. The games have been played and the emotions flushed out.
 
johnola said:
FFP is fundamentally about maintaining the stability of clubs.

You seem to be arguing only for points deductions. Yet it is evident that this threat has not acted as a deterrant.

Business sanctions, penal spending limits allied to fines and the withholding of prize money is the way I would go. Fight fire with fire and all that.

Let’s have a look at points deductions anyway…

Deducting points in different seasons could cause serious distortions. If we have a scenario where three teams packed with elite players are deducted points in one season for offences over different seasons that is a mess and potentially leaves three other brick teams in the top division.

You also have the issue of the penalty impacting playing staff who had acted in good faith all the while, have contracts based on performance and relegation clauses etc etc. These risk the financial stability of the club in a chaotic way.

Meanwhile cancelling historic titles is utter tripe and no sort of penalty at all. The games have been played and the emotions flushed out.
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How is it not acting as a deterrent? Even everton that broke the rules didn't seem to do it on purpose. The commission even stated it as so.

Talking about overspending here. Not fraud which chelsea and city are accused of.
 
Lilbaz said:
How is it not acting as a deterrent? Even everton that broke the rules didn't seem to do it on purpose. The commission even stated it as so.

Talking about overspending here. Not fraud which chelsea and city are accused of.
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Which is why they could be kicked out of the league if found guilty? Frequency and severity of actions
 
Lilbaz said:
How is it not acting as a deterrent? Even everton that broke the rules didn't seem to do it on purpose. The commission even stated it as so.

Talking about overspending here. Not fraud which chelsea and city are accused of.
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Answer in the thread title.
 
Lilbaz said:
They weren't expecting such a harsh punishment. Probably weren't expecting a points deduction. So how could it be a deterrent if nobody knew what the punishment was? They know now though.
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It’s the tradItional medicine. Now deductions are just part of the wider game of making big money.
 
So apparently there have 60 clubs go into administration in the past 30 years!!
I'm going to see if I can find something to verify that
 
johnola said:
It’s the tradItional medicine. Now deductions are just part of the wider game of making big money.
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Everton are the first to be punished for it by the prem. If you are talking uefa it is more financial measures. City, chelsea and utd have been fined. Chelsea also received a transfer ban.
 
Lilbaz said:
How is it not acting as a deterrent? Even everton that broke the rules didn't seem to do it on purpose. The commission even stated it as so.

Talking about overspending here. Not fraud which chelsea and city are accused of.
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Everton are being a little disingenuous here and fans/pundits are falling for it

- They have overspent by £200M in 3 years
- They were actually given the ability to write down/off about ~£180M of that
- They were trying to make up a way to write down the remaining that the FA did not accept ("what could have been" sales numbers)
- On top of that, apparently they were warned more than a year ago that they were in trouble and did not adjust appropriately

They are guilty as brick, and the punishment is appropriate (ask the clubs that got relegated instead of Everton by less than 3 points if Everton spending £200M over was inconsequential? and if 10 points (something a club of Everton's standing should probably be able to absorb) is extreme?

City/Chelsea are separate issues, and both need to be dealt with, the bar has now been set, so to the point, outright wrongdoings plus failure to cooperate (in City's case) should lead to significant punishment
 
Raziel said:
Everton are being a little disingenuous here and fans/pundits are falling for it

- They have overspent by £200M in 3 years
- They were actually given the ability to write down/off about ~£180M of that
- They were trying to make up a way to write down the remaining that the FA did not accept ("what could have been" sales numbers)
- On top of that, apparently they were warned more than a year ago that they were in trouble and did not adjust appropriately

They are guilty as brick, and the punishment is appropriate (ask the clubs that got relegated instead of Everton by less than 3 points if Everton spending £200M over was inconsequential? and if 10 points (something a club of Everton's standing should probably be able to absorb) is extreme?

City/Chelsea are separate issues, and both need to be dealt with, the bar has now been set, so to the point, outright wrongdoings plus failure to cooperate (in City's case) should lead to significant punishment
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Great post. I've heard a lot of "they were only £20m over, sure that's nothing". They weren't. They were hundreds of millions over and got massive leeway, time and still failed to get their house in order.

You can't have the likes of Gary Neville talking out both sides of his mouth when he's lamenting clubs going to the wall, asking for financial sustainability and when the FA try to force it, he cries foul.

The whataboutery on City and Chelsea grates too. The situations are different. I'm confident City and Chelsea will be punished but it will take time because any rushing of this will see the cases torn apart. It's frustrating but it's coming.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Great post. I've heard a lot of "they were only £20m over, sure that's nothing". They weren't. They were hundreds of millions over and got massive leeway, time and still failed to get their house in order.

You can't have the likes of Gary Neville talking out both sides of his mouth when he's lamenting clubs going to the wall, asking for financial sustainability and when the FA try to force it, he cries foul.

The whataboutery on City and Chelsea grates too. The situations are different. I'm confident City and Chelsea will be punished but it will take time because any rushing of this will see the cases torn apart. It's frustrating but it's coming.
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Yep

- Chelsea needs to be punished because even though the new owners cooperated, you can't dismiss wrongdoing because of an ownership change (otherwise you just cheat, sell and move on with club facing no consequences)
- City needs to be dealt with, not only have they not cooperated, they have basically told the FA they don't believe they have the authority to question them, they are 100+ charges in 5 categories, if the FA does do anything, Saudi Sportswashing Machine and new Chelsea will know exactly what they can get away with.

None of that changes Everton
 
Raziel said:
Everton are being a little disingenuous here and fans/pundits are falling for it

- They have overspent by £200M in 3 years
- They were actually given the ability to write down/off about ~£180M of that
- They were trying to make up a way to write down the remaining that the FA did not accept ("what could have been" sales numbers)
- On top of that, apparently they were warned more than a year ago that they were in trouble and did not adjust appropriately

They are guilty as brick, and the punishment is appropriate (ask the clubs that got relegated instead of Everton by less than 3 points if Everton spending £200M over was inconsequential? and if 10 points (something a club of Everton's standing should probably be able to absorb) is extreme?

City/Chelsea are separate issues, and both need to be dealt with, the bar has now been set, so to the point, outright wrongdoings plus failure to cooperate (in City's case) should lead to significant punishment
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Not arguing any of that. They were gambling and fudged up big time. Then tried to manipulate the rules and cover.

Different to city and chelsea seem to be. They litterally (if found guilty) set out to cheat and defraud the prem. Lying.

There is a difference.

Yes i think everton deserved their punishment. Yes they might get away with it to an extent if they don't get relegated. But i think the 10 points deduction is about right. Especially as the finances will be looked at year on year in the future not over a 3 year period.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Great post. I've heard a lot of "they were only £20m over, sure that's nothing". They weren't. They were hundreds of millions over and got massive leeway, time and still failed to get their house in order.

You can't have the likes of Gary Neville talking out both sides of his mouth when he's lamenting clubs going to the wall, asking for financial sustainability and when the FA try to force it, he cries foul.

The whataboutery on City and Chelsea grates too. The situations are different. I'm confident City and Chelsea will be punished but it will take time because any rushing of this will see the cases torn apart. It's frustrating but it's coming.
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I’m not confident one but city or Chelsea will be punished
Everton admitted they guilt which made it easy
chelsea have but blame previous regimes
city deny everything
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I’m not confident one but city or Chelsea will be punished
Everton admitted they guilt which made it easy
chelsea have but blame previous regimes
city deny everything
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Yeah that makes it difficult particularly in City's case. I just can't see them walking away from this without punishment given the publicity around it. The FA would look absolutely ridiculous and their authority completely discredited.

We all know City were cheating. I can't believe that the FA can't make enough of the 115 charges stick to punish them properly. If they can't, it'll turn lots of people off the game.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Yeah that makes it difficult particularly in City's case. I just can't see them walking away from this without punishment given the publicity around it. The FA would look absolutely ridiculous and their authority completely discredited.

We all know City were cheating. I can't believe that the FA can't make enough of the 115 charges stick to punish them properly. If they can't, it'll turn lots of people off the game.
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The Premier league is the body sorting this out, not the FA.

On my view it is too late to do anything about City and Chelsea. I should also say I don’t really care if they do happen to catastrophically fail further down the line should the investment suddenly dry up, someone else will take their place.
 
Also, Everton will have to get their house in order pretty sharpish if they want to avoid further breaches in the coming seasons.

A fire sale in the new year window perhaps?
 
johnola said:
Also, Everton will have to get their house in order pretty sharpish if they want to avoid further breaches in the coming seasons.

A fire sale in the new year window perhaps?
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That is something the media hasn't really covered. Wages and amortisation mean that they could still breach. The sales (richarlison, gordon) only boost their turnover for one season.
 
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