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Eric Dier

Gazza said:
Comparing John Terry with Dier is poo poo, John Terry was a fine player but is a terrible human, Dier is an average defender but a nice human. Ability wise we may as well be comparing Maradonna with Jonjo Shelvy.
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I think if you stretch a tiny bit, you’ll grasp the potential comparison.
 
papaspur said:
IMO, the disagreement is roughly over whether Dier is a top-4 player or not. And all I have really been saying is that he's not a top-4 player (again, just my opinion based on his performances for the past few seasons). All the talk about systems and managers do have some effect, but I don't think Dier reads the game as well as other higher-rated defenders. I don't think he needs to be sold though, he could be a very useful squad option in CD/DM/RB. I don't think he's a bad guy either, but I won't forget that tackle he made on Son in training that almost broke his leg.
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I haven't seen anyone claim he is a top class CB and I doubt anyone is going to say he is one of the best in the world. As I've said previously it's certain people going out of their way to blame him for every goal that we concede that irks people. Some put up totally brick analysis trying to blame him and think it justifies abusing him.

I totally agree that ideally he would be used as a good squad option due to his flexibility in covering a few positions. But there are currently other areas that need sorting more than CB. Central Midfield is the priority to me. Maybe that only needs one signing to sort and CB can be sorted at the same time too. It all depends on the cost of the player in CM that Conte wants.
 
DubSpur said:
I haven't seen anyone claim he is a top class CB and I doubt anyone is going to say he is one of the best in the world. As I've said previously it's certain people going out of their way to blame him for every goal that we concede that irks people. Some put up totally brick analysis trying to blame him and think it justifies abusing him.

I totally agree that ideally he would be used as a good squad option due to his flexibility in covering a few positions. But there are currently other areas that need sorting more than CB. Central Midfield is the priority to me. Maybe that only needs one signing to sort and CB can be sorted at the same time too. It all depends on the cost of the player in CM that Conte wants.
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Right, that's a totally fair assessment but at this point, I just want to clarify that my intent isn't to crucify anyone (player or poster), but to figure out if Dier should be upgraded on eventually. I do agree that we've had something rotten with our midfield for some time now so that probably is the #1 priority, but of course, whatever players we get would have to match with Conte's system, looking forward to seeing more games to see how we evolve under him. Of course, I'm willing to give him a lot of time especially because he has the burden of all those terrible transfer windows we've had the past few years. The only positions we've upgraded in have been CB and RB so we definitely need to see some upgrades in CM and RW (and striker of course).

Just to wrap up, there's probably a big difference for the more forward/attacking players knowing they have Ledley King in the back vs. Eric Dier... again, not meant as a slight against Dier because not many players I've seen compare to King, but that is the level we should be aspiring to reach.
 
Bishop said:
Has Craig Dawson ever played for a team that has finished in the top 4? Let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

We know what qualities are required for a top 4 quality defender because there was a period we regularly did so. Does Dier match those standards? How does he compare to those teams that have actually finished in the top4 in recent seasons? If we do think he is comparable, he's in the lower bottom tier of all of those places based on the evidence of his play.

Maybe Conte's system can overcome his shortcomings but it would very much be a system maximising his strengths and diminishing his weaknesses rather than him actually being an all around top quality defender. Which can be fine if you find the groupings that work. I'd rather just get a quality defender that works well across a number of systems.
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But Dier has
Several times
 
papaspur said:
Right, that's a totally fair assessment but at this point, I just want to clarify that my intent isn't to crucify anyone (player or poster), but to figure out if Dier should be upgraded on eventually. I do agree that we've had something rotten with our midfield for some time now so that probably is the #1 priority, but of course, whatever players we get would have to match with Conte's system, looking forward to seeing more games to see how we evolve under him. Of course, I'm willing to give him a lot of time especially because he has the burden of all those terrible transfer windows we've had the past few years. The only positions we've upgraded in have been CB and RB so we definitely need to see some upgrades in CM and RW (and striker of course).

Just to wrap up, there's probably a big difference for the more forward/attacking players knowing they have Ledley King in the back vs. Eric Dier... again, not meant as a slight against Dier because not many players I've seen compare to King, but that is the level we should be aspiring to reach.
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Stop fishing! :D
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Nah he played Cb in a 3 with Toby and jan
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That's stretching it. He was the DM dropped in. We didn't play a true 3 at the back system but yes he did sometimes find himself in the defensive line but he was more often in the midfield areas. That was also only one season with Toby and Jan in there. Now you're expecting him to be the Toby or Jan, that's not quite the same thing.

I hope he proves good enough and this season head been a considerable improvement on previous seasons but still there have to be lots of doubts. We have good reason to have them.
 
Bishop said:
That's stretching it. He was the DM dropped in. We didn't play a true 3 at the back system but yes he did sometimes find himself in the defensive line but he was more often in the midfield areas. That was also only one season with Toby and Jan in there. Now you're expecting him to be the Toby or Jan, that's not quite the same thing.

I hope he proves good enough and this season head been a considerable improvement on previous seasons but still there have to be lots of doubts. We have good reason to have them.
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We played 3 at the back plenty of times
We also had wimmer play there too
 
Yup we have played 3 at the back with Eric. I think it was in a match against Southampton that Pochettino first tried it. It worked well. The problem IIRC was creativity and attacking bodies.
 
Maybe I’m a dingdong but I’m all for kicking a player for playing poor
They are professionals and I reckon they may even know it themselves
But when people reinvent the past to suit a new argument it’s pretty crap TBH
 
Gazza said:
My memory seems to fade me, can't really remember it being a regular set up.
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3 in the back was used once in a while, but Dier did make appearances under Poch... but yeah, as a DM mostly. When we got mr spaghetti man (wanyama), Dier played more as central defender whenever toby or jan got injured.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
We did
It was a great flexible team and squad
And Dier was a big part of it
But he has also had some poor seasons but he is made a spacegoat IMO for a lot of things that aren’t his fault
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His own poor performances are down to him, just like they are with any player. He isn't the sole cause of our poor defensive record but he's certainly been a part of it. Again just like the rest of the defensive unit who on the shore haven't been good enough.
 
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