Dele Alli

[thfcsteff]

A box to box role in a midfield three might be the making for him as the free roaming #10 role he once thrived in is rare to find in football and I don't think he'll get it anywhere at any big team at this point at least.

I think we may need a more balanced midfield to really make it work. Him, Hojbjerg and Skipp right now look too light in key areas of what you want and need from midfield.

Perhaps Skipp and Hojbjerg can step up in that regard, perhaps Romero or some other centre back that isn't Dier or Sanchez can provide some of it. But the current setup leaves a bit too much to be desired of what I don't think Alli will bring anytime soon.

It is why I think we will see one of Hojberg or Skipp soon enough...

 

[DeanoAustin]

I love the national side but never see it as a binary reflection of who our best players are. I learnt this during the Hoddle era the hard way.

And that's fair. But I'll put it this way, if Alli puts in 38 performances like the first 2, we'll finish around the top 6. He starts adding his potential to the effort, he could be a big difference maker and have us challenging a bit higher.

On the England thing, I never understand why you guys treat your midfielders so badly. Hoddle was exactly what you needed for years and was regularly left out for lads who couldn't lick his boots. Carrick was exactly what was needed from 2004 and had to sit and watch Stevie G and Lampard get bypassed. Why don't you trust that sort of player? That sort of player was also needed in the Euros this year because Rice and Phillips are decent but not creative. I won't even mention the criminal wastage of Paul Scholes.

 

[thfcsteff]

And that's fair. But I'll put it this way, if Alli puts in 38 performances like the first 2, we'll finish around the top 6. He starts adding his potential to the effort, he could be a big difference maker and have us challenging a bit higher.

On the England thing, I never understand why you guys treat your midfielders so badly. Hoddle was exactly what you needed for years and was regularly left out for lads who couldn't lick his boots. Carrick was exactly what was needed from 2004 and had to sit and watch Stevie G and Lampard get bypassed. Why don't you trust that sort of player? That sort of player was also needed in the Euros this year because Rice and Phillips are decent but not creative. I won't even mention the criminal wastage of Paul Scholes.

Not being difficult, I'm just trying to understand what you mean beyond some of the things we're seeing? Yesterday he's created and scored the goal and as mentioned, been right there for the second if Bergy's ball had been better. What are you specifically looking for?

 

[DeanoAustin]

Not being difficult, I'm just trying to understand what you mean beyond some of the things we're seeing? Yesterday he's created and scored the goal and as mentioned, been right there for the second if Bergy's ball had been better. What are you specifically looking for?

If he's going to play CM, he's got to influence the game a bit more and dictate the game more than he does. He's put in a lot of effort but from what I saw against wolves and in the game against City, his influence on the game, creatively, was very limited. And we've never seen that sort of play from Dele before. But if he wants to be a CM, that's the part of his game he needs to develop.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

If he's going to play CM, he's got to influence the game a bit more and dictate the game more than he does. He's put in a lot of effort but from what I saw against wolves and in the game against City, his influence on the game, creatively, was very limited. And we've never seen that sort of play from Dele before. But if he wants to be a CM, that's the part of his game he needs to develop.

I think we need to think of him more like Wilbaldum rather than the old dele
A player who does a bit of everything

 

[thfcsteff]

If he's going to play CM, he's got to influence the game a bit more and dictate the game more than he does. He's put in a lot of effort but from what I saw against wolves and in the game against City, his influence on the game, creatively, was very limited. And we've never seen that sort of play from Dele before. But if he wants to be a CM, that's the part of his game he needs to develop.

But I think again it is important to note his exact and specific role. He is not central. He is playing off the left of a 3, and technically, it is Skipp in the centre. I think there is a good argument for swapping Skippy out for a creative passing/carrying CM ('tis the tragedy of Ndombele because this is what we thought he could be) but Dele's value right now is (IMO) unquestionable. You said from what you saw against Wolves, did you see the whole match? Again, not looking to dig out at all, just asking.

 

[DeanoAustin]

But I think again it is important to note his exact and specific role. He is not central. He is playing off the left of a 3, and technically, it is Skipp in the centre. I think there is a good argument for swapping Skippy out for a creative passing/carrying CM ('tis the tragedy of Ndombele because this is what we thought he could be) but Dele's value right now is (IMO) unquestionable. You said from what you saw against Wolves, did you see the whole match? Again, not looking to dig out at all, just asking.

No didn't see the whole Wolves game to be fair. Going on what I did see and the comments I've seen from people who did see it. We were pretty poor creatively by all accounts.

On the left of a narrow 3, he still has to influence the game and try dictate the play for me if we're gonna try and control games.

 

[Raziel]

No didn't see the whole Wolves game to be fair. Going on what I did see and the comments I've seen from people who did see it. We were pretty poor creatively by all accounts.

On the left of a narrow 3, he still has to influence the game and try dictate the play for me if we're gonna try and control games.

He worked his ass off, did good defensive work and did still put himself into good areas (see penalty)

The issue is the same as it was 5 pages back on this thread, with full 11, where does he play?

Kane comes back in, and we are looking for a winger for all intents, lots of rumours about Nuno wanting two up top and Son to play more centrally.

I think we go more 4-4-2, Kane and Son up front, two wide men (Bergwijn/Gil on one side, Lucas/whoever on other) and then you have PEH, Skipp, Lo Celso, Dele and likely one incoming or Ndombele fighting for the remaining two spots.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

No didn't see the whole Wolves game to be fair. Going on what I did see and the comments I've seen from people who did see it. We were pretty poor creatively by all accounts.

On the left of a narrow 3, he still has to influence the game and try dictate the play for me if we're gonna try and control games.

I see no reason why the onus should be on Dele considering Nuno has deployed in a in role that is alien to what he was doing in his glory. One could as well argue that playing both Holberg and Skipp in the same midfield deprives us of creativity

 

[NaijaSpurs]

If he's going to play CM, he's got to influence the game a bit more and dictate the game more than he does. He's put in a lot of effort but from what I saw against wolves and in the game against City, his influence on the game, creatively, was very limited. And we've never seen that sort of play from Dele before. But if he wants to be a CM, that's the part of his game he needs to develop.

The same applies to both Skipp and Holberg so why is Dele the fall guy?

 

[NaijaSpurs]

I agree that a midfield 3 of Skipp, Holberg and Dele is not the way to go long term, we definitely need a more creative passer in there, but I disagree that Dele is necessarily the one to be dropped.

 

[Raziel]

I agree that a midfield 3 of Skipp, Holberg and Dele is not the way to go long term, we definitely need a more creative passer in there, but I disagree that Dele is necessarily the one to be dropped.

Skipp & PEH should only be for games where we truly expect to be on the defensive for the majority of the game (City example)

But one of them needs to swap out for a ball player (Lo Celso/Ndombele in current squad)

For Dele to stay in that three, he does need to carry the ball more, be more box to box and he needs to be a little more careful in his possession

 

[DeanoAustin]

I agree that a midfield 3 of Skipp, Holberg and Dele is not the way to go long term, we definitely need a more creative passer in there, but I disagree that Dele is necessarily the one to be dropped.

I'm not for a second saying Dele needs to be dropped. But if he wants to stay in that role, he has to add to his game. Otherwise, we will struggle.

Dele's improved recently, his work rate has been good and his attitude has been good. He's doing the right things. But would this version of Dele Alli get in any other team challenging for top 4? He has to develop his game to be more influential or Nuno needs to change his tactics to give Dele his old role back.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I see no reason why the onus should be on Dele considering Nuno has deployed in a in role that is alien to what he was doing in his glory. One could as well argue that playing both Holberg and Skipp in the same midfield deprives us of creativity

It does
We need a mix of a stopper (skipp/Hojbjerg)
A runner (dele and one other)
And a passer (maybe that’s Lo Celso and one other)
But we don’t have the others currently and we’re making do with what we have
But I think that blend of players abs styles would give us a nice balance

 

[NaijaSpurs]

I'm not for a second saying Dele needs to be dropped. But if he wants to stay in that role, he has to add to his game. Otherwise, we will struggle.

Dele's improved recently, his work rate has been good and his attitude has been good. He's doing the right things. But would this version of Dele Alli get in any other team challenging for top 4? He has to develop his game to be more influential or Nuno needs to change his tactics to give Dele his old role back.

Alternatively bring in a creative player for Skipp instead

 

[DeanoAustin]

Alternatively bring in a creative player for Skipp instead

That still won't cut it for me. If Dele wants to play in a midfield 3 and we want to control games, he has to be more creative and do more on the ball. Having him as a runner, PEH as a holder and A/N Other as a creative passer won't cut it. You need more than that in a midfield. Dele needs to develop his game.

 

[thfcsteff]

That still won't cut it for me. If Dele wants to play in a midfield 3 and we want to control games, he has to be more creative and do more on the ball. Having him as a runner, PEH as a holder and A/N Other as a creative passer won't cut it. You need more than that in a midfield. Dele needs to develop his game.

Come on Deano, you even admitted you didn’t see the whole game! You say he has to ‘develop’ his game? That is precisely what he has done.

 

[billyiddo]

That still won't cut it for me. If Dele wants to play in a midfield 3 and we want to control games, he has to be more creative and do more on the ball. Having him as a runner, PEH as a holder and A/N Other as a creative passer won't cut it. You need more than that in a midfield. Dele needs to develop his game.

That's generally how 3 man midfields work, DM B2B Creative

 

[Bishop]

Not being difficult, I'm just trying to understand what you mean beyond some of the things we're seeing? Yesterday he's created and scored the goal and as mentioned, been right there for the second if Bergy's ball had been better. What are you specifically looking for?

Our midfield which he was a part of got completely out played. We won the game because Wolves don't know how to create quality chances and the few they did they didn't know how to finish. We did not win because our midfield controlled the game or even put up much resistance.

Wolves have a particularly good modified so they may not be a good barometer but if that performance is an indicator of how's thi GS will go this season then it really isn't good enough and Dele was part of that.

 

[afsoc4life]

The CMs for Wolves were Ruben Neves and Joao Moutinho. Guess how old Joao is? He is 34 years old. Those two are excellent at moving the ball and a solid work ethic. I am still surprised that we left with 3 points. At some point Ruben and Joao took over the centre and we never got it back.