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Danny Rose
- Thread starter JellySpur
- Start date
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
Sunderland fans last season thought he was their best defender, if I remember correctly. It seems about right: he seems like the kind of player who excels at situations where non-stop activity is required. It's not that hard to concentrate on defending when that's what you're going to have to do for 75 minutes out of every ninety as teams attack you head on, which is the situation struggling Sunderland often found themselves in. And with his stamina and pace, he probably could have swiftly corrected any defensive lapses he made.
The question, imo, is this: in a team like our current bunch (which by and large has to face packed defenses and cautious, counter attacking teams set up in deep lines), can he maintain the concentration necessary to maintain a high standard of defensive performances? He won't be facing opponents all the time, and large periods of the game will pass him by as we attack down the middle or on Bale's flank and the opposition sit deep and in two banks of four. And it is arguably far harder to maintain concentration in a situation like that: where not much is happening, but where something may happen at an moment, which is the case with the direct counter-attacking PL teams pull off against the top sides. So, will he be able to concentrate and make the right decisions consistently over ninety minutes in a side like Spurs? I'm not sure he will be able to. But if AVB trusts him, then I agree with steff: I trust AVB and the staff to make the right decisions.
The question, imo, is this: in a team like our current bunch (which by and large has to face packed defenses and cautious, counter attacking teams set up in deep lines), can he maintain the concentration necessary to maintain a high standard of defensive performances? He won't be facing opponents all the time, and large periods of the game will pass him by as we attack down the middle or on Bale's flank and the opposition sit deep and in two banks of four. And it is arguably far harder to maintain concentration in a situation like that: where not much is happening, but where something may happen at an moment, which is the case with the direct counter-attacking PL teams pull off against the top sides. So, will he be able to concentrate and make the right decisions consistently over ninety minutes in a side like Spurs? I'm not sure he will be able to. But if AVB trusts him, then I agree with steff: I trust AVB and the staff to make the right decisions.
Good post and agree with the questions you ask to an extent, but I wonder how relevant they are.
Keeping Rose is probably less of an indication of his ability and more an indication of his market value.
Ekotto isn't rated by AVB and will command a higher fee than Rose, so he goes, not Rose - and a new LB will be bought, I think we all accept Rose won't be our starting LB.
Of course, we can't accurately establish their respective market value versus perceived ability, but I hope you understand my point.
Spursalot
Jimmy McCormick
jurgen lineker
Radek Cerny
I doubt anyone here is capable of knowing this for a fact, but when you consider that he was not played consistently last season in comparison to our other full back, was the first to be replaced on occasions where we looked in trouble in defence and was replaced by a player that was playing out of position, then it is only natural to assume that perhaps AVB may not rate him all that highly.
Spursalot
Jimmy McCormick
Was injured for the first half of the season and in the second he wasn't played consistently because he had an issue with his knee. Which was stated in a direct quote from AVB.
If not playing a player with injury issues is an indication of not liking a player, i guess AVB hates Kaboul even more.
Thought he was sloppy defensively today, but going forwards he seemed more dangerous and willing than Ekotto normally is, along with delivering balls with more venom. I think he has the potential to develop into a good left-back but whether it is behind Ekotto or a new signing he should not be first choice (at least to begin with) this season, he is too much of a liability defensively perhaps for the reason outlined by Dubai Spurs.
That will certainly be in part due to re-adjusting to our style of football - later in the season he could become a Walker-esque threat down the left. Perhaps his potential even means we do not necessarily need to sign a new left-back, although in an ideal world we would.
That will certainly be in part due to re-adjusting to our style of football - later in the season he could become a Walker-esque threat down the left. Perhaps his potential even means we do not necessarily need to sign a new left-back, although in an ideal world we would.
jurgen lineker
Radek Cerny
He was available for selection for almost the entirety of the second half of the season, therefore we can assume that he was fit enough to play to a decent level. You may put whatever spin you'd like on it, but the fact remains, he was left out of some key fixtures last season and was the first to be replaced on occasions when we looked vulnerable in defence, which to me is an indication that perhaps AVB may not rate him all that highly. And just to clarify, i never categorically stated he was not a fan of Ekotto, i pointed out some examples as to why myself and some others may assume he may not rate him all that highly.
You second point is ridiculous and childlike, and therefore does not deserve a response.
Spursalot
Jimmy McCormick
But the Portuguese coach is adamant that he remains a big part of his plans as the north Londoners bid to secure Champions League qualification next season.
“We finally have Benoit [Assou-Ekotto] back so, apart from the fluid that he has on the knee, he was involved in all of the fixtures since he got back,” said Villas-Boas.
“He’s an extremely important player for us. We have Danny Rose coming back and Zeki Fryers so we have to make the best decision [for next season].”
I don't have to put any spin on it.
By not liking/hating i was meaning not rating.
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Tbf he is hardly going to come out and say Benny will be back-up, especially if he has a view to selling him.
Spursalot
Jimmy McCormick
Jurgen the German
Tommy Harmer
Even Sir Alex Ferguson made the odd mistake, we don't have to blindly follow every decision the management make.
metalgear
Nayim
you really couldn't tell that from today's match. what looked like venom to you may actually be just slime and mud.
Of course, I don't know if AVB rates Ekotto, it's just my opinion formed from his lack of game time when fit.
Plus, I believe there's substance in the link to Contraeo, that Ekotto is unlikely to adapt to a high defensive line, which requires a heightened sense of concentration and how we'll likely need an overlapping left back, give we're likely to be playing a likely right-sided left winger.
Don't get me wrong, I think Ekotto's great. That said, I understand different players adapt to different tactics etc.
Plus, I believe there's substance in the link to Contraeo, that Ekotto is unlikely to adapt to a high defensive line, which requires a heightened sense of concentration and how we'll likely need an overlapping left back, give we're likely to be playing a likely right-sided left winger.
Don't get me wrong, I think Ekotto's great. That said, I understand different players adapt to different tactics etc.
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
Did you see the bit where I said 'I trust our management HERE'? As in, 'with regards to this situation specifically'?
Juuuust wanted to be sure. Not entirely clear on how that translated to 'blindly follow every decision the management make' but I wont lose sleep eh?!
Not necessarily just relevant in the Rose thread, but, teams defending in two banks of four will probably find themselves in all kinds of trouble if we (as anticipated) line up with Chadli on the left and Bale on the right. Both wanting to find space in between the lines, both having a more than decent shot, and both able to run in behind if the defenders don't make it right. Unfortunately there aren't enough English or Norwegian managers left in the league.
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
I agree with you there. I think we're going for a conscious strategy of trying to pose as much of a multi-faced threat as possible, by buying players that aren't specialists in anything (lightning pace, brute force, creative passing, etcetera), but are generally pretty good at everything, Chadli and Paulinho being examples. This will undoubtedly create a problem for the opposition, as they're faced with a difficult choice: by leaving someone like Chadli to run across the edge of the box to avoid getting drawn out of position, they may keep their shape, but equally they may get punished by his ability to shoot from range. Same goes for Bale and Paulinho. And if they do try to close these guys down, they'll find that they're faced with players who are both strong an reasonably quick, making it difficult to get the ball off them considering that most PL defenders are less known for their standing tackles and cerebral positioning (a la Ledley) and more known for their no holds-barred physical approach.
That kind of conundrum will likely puzzle a lot of defenders this coming season. However, I don't think that Chadli or Bale would be able to run into space behind the defence in a 'two banks of four' strategy (the second part of your post), simply because in that kind of deep defensive line, the full backs are nearly always stationed only a couple of metres in front of the line, because the defence is backed into a small space on the edge of their area and in their box. Ergo, there is very little space to 'run into', per se, especially when you consider that those full backs will likely have the wingers covering them and the centre-backs forcing any runners wide, necessitating very quick releases of the ball (either as a backwards pass,a through pass into the six yard box or a cross). I don't think Bale and Chadli's playing style (They're both quite similar) fits that quick release dynamic. Hence, I think we'll go more for the 'long shot' approach than a 'run behind the defense approach.
chicken_badge
Gudni Bergsson
Part of the reason Benny was played less was to afford Naughton more game time I think.
Unless the defenders moves out to close down the shots there really wont be necessary to run in behind, but the constant threat of them doing so might just give them enough space to get into a good position just outside of the box. If we then move the fullbacks up (as this is the Rose thread), that will necessarily force the defending fullback to pay attention (or the opposition wingers) and thus they will either end up playing a 5 man defence with deep midfielders, or some space have to be opened up, if not for anything else than shots from good positions (which Bale, Chadli, Sigurdsson, Dembele, Paulinho all would like to do probably). Now ad in a striker who is familiar with the movement of a false nine, and who can finish aswell. Unfortunately, most teams will probably end up playing a 4-5-1 which will make it a bit more difficult.
I admit to not having seen enough of Chadli, but in the clips I've seen, quite a few of his goals seems to be runs across from the left. That in itself is a threat, but it will also open up space for either Bale, or Dembele / Paulinho /Sigurdsson. Bale will always have to be doubled up upon, and just his mere precence will force most teams to make special adjustments. Now if Chadli offers some of the same...
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
Good post. For what it's worth, I agree with you again: We will see situations where the two centre-backs are protected by the two central midfielders sitting just in front of them as well as a deep striker in between the two, five men in all, while the two full backs cover the edges of the area and the wingers track our full-backs. Dealing with that will determine where we finish. Though I do think AVB is still wedded to the concept of using unexpected players to change the emphasis of play, something he talked about at length in that Daniel Sousa interview from a few years ago where he explained that using your defensive midfielder to suddenly provide vertical penetration would more often than not wrong foot the opposing side. Ergo, I think we'll see our response to that 4-5-1 being basically to shuttle the ball around the front of the opposition before giving it to one of our central midfielders (Dembele, Paulinho and Sandro), who will then burst forward at pace while one of the other midfielders provides a passing option (or an option for a one-two), and the other midfielder drops deep in front of our CBs.
Chadli's always looked like a slightly slower Bale to me.