Daniel Levy - Former Chairman

[Grays_1890]

I think your description of what contributes to "ridiculous back and forths" is rather one sided.

The narrative from some here, in the meda and elsewhere in the Spurs community seems to be Levy did really well on the business side, not so well on the football side.

Some, including me on here, are saying that we also improved a lot under him on the football side. In part as a result of what he did on the business side, but also other factors.

I think the biggest difference of opinion comes down to trophies and to what extent trophies are the measure of how well we do on the football side.

For me and I think this will be my conclusion on all things Levy. People rightly get judged on things in football, good and bad and Levy should, like anyone, be it Ref, player, owner, director..........And the nature of the game and supporters with our failed footballer mentality means we are HUGE critics.

But on a human nature side, the guy spent 25 years of his time trying to make Tottenham Hotspur Football Club a better club, he didn't kill anyone, he didn't come out and say anything hurtful, he never took to the press when EVERYONE were at one point critics because of a bruised ego, he just did the job at the best ability he could. So when I see people making threats, calling him "Dr Bald Aids, a parasite, a bald cnut" etc etc, I just think, thats a bigger mark on our club than anything he did wrong.

For me he goes with my wishes, he got alot right amongst the mistakes and this club is in a far better standing than it was before he came in and for me thats the mark I will judge him on

COYS

 

[harr1984]

I think your description of what contributes to "ridiculous back and forths" is rather one sided.

The narrative from some here, in the meda and elsewhere in the Spurs community seems to be Levy did really well on the business side, not so well on the football side.

Some, including me on here, are saying that we also improved a lot under him on the football side. In part as a result of what he did on the business side, but also other factors.

I think the biggest difference of opinion comes down to trophies and to what extent trophies are the measure of how well we do on the football side.

I say it's ridiculous back and forth because any time anyone mentions a negative regarding Levy it always goes the same way and the point of the original post is lost. For the claim of balance, I do not see any - just empty words claiming to be (not directed at you, you are always fair).

Sure we improved on the football side and we have never kicked on - we had the opportunity and didn't and the excuse of the stadium has worn thin now. Only a non serious 'big club' would claim trophies aren't the measure of success on the football side. If we had done a Chelsea under ENIC and won trophies galore, there would be next to no one on here claiming trophies arent the measure of success. You either think we are a big club or we aren't, and if you think we are which I do(thanks in no small part to Levy for elevating us) then you have to think like a big club.

If you don't perceive us to be one then fair enough, you can maintain trophies aren't of paramount importance. But we are in a position to make that next step, so let's fudging go for it - there is nothing to suggest ENIC are going to show that extra bit of ambition, and if they do once Levy has gone then I would actually have to question whether Levy was in some way holding us back....

 

[Jurgen the German]

I say it's ridiculous back and forth because any time anyone mentions a negative regarding Levy it always goes the same way and the point of the original post is lost. For the claim of balance, I do not see any - just empty words claiming to be (not directed at you, you are always fair).

Sure we improved on the football side and we have never kicked on - we had the opportunity and didn't and the excuse of the stadium has worn thin now. Only a non serious 'big club' would claim trophies aren't the measure of success on the football side. If we had done a Chelsea under ENIC and won trophies galore, there would be next to no one on here claiming trophies arent the measure of success. You either think we are a big club or we aren't, and if you think we are which I do(thanks in no small part to Levy for elevating us) then you have to think like a big club.

If you don't perceive us to be one then fair enough, you can maintain trophies aren't of paramount importance. But we are in a position to make that next step, so let's fudging go for it - there is nothing to suggest ENIC are going to show that extra bit of ambition, and if they do once Levy has gone then I would actually have to question whether Levy was in some way holding us back....

The middle paragraph is so true. We used to crow about getting more points than any other team for 2 seasons when Poch was manager and Leicester and Chelsea won the league. It’s the same line Arsenal are using now because they finished 2nd 3 years running and amassed more points than anyone else. But if you don’t actually win then what does it matter? Consistency is great but there has to be a tangible result at the end of it. Would you rather finish 2nd 3 years in a row or win the title once and finish 3rd/4th/5th in the other seasons like Liverpool and Emirates Marketing Project did? I know which one I’d prefer.

 

[glasgowspur]

I say it's ridiculous back and forth because any time anyone mentions a negative regarding Levy it always goes the same way and the point of the original post is lost. For the claim of balance, I do not see any - just empty words claiming to be (not directed at you, you are always fair).

Sure we improved on the football side and we have never kicked on - we had the opportunity and didn't and the excuse of the stadium has worn thin now. Only a non serious 'big club' would claim trophies aren't the measure of success on the football side. If we had done a Chelsea under ENIC and won trophies galore, there would be next to no one on here claiming trophies arent the measure of success. You either think we are a big club or we aren't, and if you think we are which I do(thanks in no small part to Levy for elevating us) then you have to think like a big club.

If you don't perceive us to be one then fair enough, you can maintain trophies aren't of paramount importance. But we are in a position to make that next step, so let's fudging go for it - there is nothing to suggest ENIC are going to show that extra bit of ambition, and if they do once Levy has gone then I would actually have to question whether Levy was in some way holding us back....

If we could have the trophy haul that Chelsea have had under roman without roman (at best a gangster, at worst a war criminal) or city without the 115 charges hanging over them, then yes I'm sure we would all be ecstatic.
But for me those trophies are not worth the price they have paid for them, and I'm not talking financially.

Something else that gets over looked, take willian, let's say DL had went back to willian and bettered the Chelsea offer, do we really believe Chelsea would not have upped their offer again?
That's a battle we cannot win, and trying to leads to disaster.
City and Chelsea had almost limitless wealth, we didn't.

 

[braineclipse]

I say it's ridiculous back and forth because any time anyone mentions a negative regarding Levy it always goes the same way and the point of the original post is lost. For the claim of balance, I do not see any - just empty words claiming to be (not directed at you, you are always fair).

Sure we improved on the football side and we have never kicked on - we had the opportunity and didn't and the excuse of the stadium has worn thin now. Only a non serious 'big club' would claim trophies aren't the measure of success on the football side. If we had done a Chelsea under ENIC and won trophies galore, there would be next to no one on here claiming trophies arent the measure of success. You either think we are a big club or we aren't, and if you think we are which I do(thanks in no small part to Levy for elevating us) then you have to think like a big club.

If you don't perceive us to be one then fair enough, you can maintain trophies aren't of paramount importance. But we are in a position to make that next step, so let's fudging go for it - there is nothing to suggest ENIC are going to show that extra bit of ambition, and if they do once Levy has gone then I would actually have to question whether Levy was in some way holding us back....

I see those back and forth sparked by people saying positive things about Levy (on the football side) too.

I think we've improved and kicked on several times, but we've also had periods of decline and examples of not kicking on.

I think we're a big club. Not the size of the biggest clubs in Europe and England (what I think of as the super clubs). We're not THAT far off, but we're not at their size.

I think trophies are one measure of success, not THE measure of success for us. And particularly when talking about what Levy has done for the club on the footballing side I don't think trophies alone is what should be looked at. Like I said, to what extent trophies are the measure of success seems the key disagreement.

For those super clubs too. Give them a couple of rough years where the things that were a given when success was measured on trophies and it turns out CL participation, European participation, being able to attract and keep great players is actually seen as important markers of success.

 

[afsoc4life]

For me and I think this will be my conclusion on all things Levy. People rightly get judged on things in football, good and bad and Levy should, like anyone, be it Ref, player, owner, director..........And the nature of the game and supporters with our failed footballer mentality means we are HUGE critics.

But on a human nature side, the guy spent 25 years of his time trying to make Tottenham Hotspur Football Club a better club, he didn't kill anyone, he didn't come out and say anything hurtful, he never took to the press when EVERYONE were at one point critics because of a bruised ego, he just did the job at the best ability he could. So when I see people making threats, calling him "Dr Bald Aids, a parasite, a bald cnut" etc etc, I just think, thats a bigger mark on our club than anything he did wrong.

For me he goes with my wishes, he got alot right amongst the mistakes and this club is in a far better standing than it was before he came in and for me thats the mark I will judge him on

COYS

Solid post. Levy is someone that I really hope I have the chance to meet in person and learn from him not just footballing terms but building towards the future.

 

[braineclipse]

The middle paragraph is so true. We used to crow about getting more points than any other team for 2 seasons when Poch was manager and Leicester and Chelsea won the league. It’s the same line Arsenal are using now because they finished 2nd 3 years running and amassed more points than anyone else. But if you don’t actually win then what does it matter? Consistency is great but there has to be a tangible result at the end of it. Would you rather finish 2nd 3 years in a row or win the title once and finish 3rd/4th/5th in the other seasons like Liverpool and Emirates Marketing Project did? I know which one I’d prefer.

I don't think you'll find many Spurs fans (if any) here or elsewhere that wouldn't take a league win and 3rd/4th/5th over consistency at 2nd/3rd over that time.

But consistent top 4 gives a significantly increased chance of getting there than being consistently mid table. That's progress. That's good. That's better than most.

 

[Grays_1890]

If we could have the trophy haul that Chelsea have had under roman without roman (at best a gangster, at worst a war criminal) or city without the 115 charges hanging over them, then yes I'm sure we would all be ecstatic.
But for me those trophies are not worth the price they have paid for them, and I'm not talking financially.

Something else that gets over looked, take willian, let's say DL had went back to willian and bettered the Chelsea offer, do we really believe Chelsea would not have upped their offer again?
That's a battle we cannot win, and trying to leads to disaster.
City and Chelsea had almost limitless wealth, we didn't.

Exactly this, some love their club for their club, I'm not a win at all costs guy, the season i got to travel the country and see Jurgen Klinsmann tear it up with my old man was worth any trophy that may or may not been won under Roman or City.

Not bothered how small time that's sounds, I've seen this club win things and it's meant as much as anything.

Im happy with who we are our identity, not everyine is as self loathing about us as some fans

 

[glasgowspur]

I don't think you'll find many Spurs fans (if any) here or elsewhere that wouldn't take a league win and 3rd/4th/5th over consistency at 2nd/3rd over that time.

But consistent top 4 gives a significantly increased chance of getting there than being consistently mid table. That's progress. That's good. That's better than most.

There is not really a consistent top four anymore.
Every club has a season or two rebuilding and slip down the league.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

No doubt on that. I’m not criticising at all (just observing), but it’s very clear that this forum is quite an outlier when it comes to views expressed on Daniel Levy.

I’ve listened to a lot of Spurs podcasts over the past 48 hours. I’ve yet to find one which thinks that change wasn’t overdue.

The View From the Lane is, for me, a pretty good barometer of opinion; it’s populated by professional journalists, a couple of whom are Spurs fans, and a few who aren’t.

They produced, for me, a very balanced programme post-Daniel’s sacking. It acknowledged the great things he’s done, but talked about how he’s come to be viewed within the game, for some time now, as ‘The Mourinho of chairmen.’

He arrived into a world of clubs owned by sports company and carpet warehouse owners who also happened to run football clubs; he was the young disruptor who did things differently.

But the football landscape has completely changed during his 25 years at the helm, and he has latterly operated in a landscape peopled by nation state and (actual!) gangster owners - and he has struggled to deal with that (see this summer window, where there is plenty of evidence that he was completely played in the Eze transfer and, possibly, the MGW one too).

He has struggled to adapt. Other chairmen dealing with him used to be wary and fearful - of late, they just thought that he was a pain in the arse that they’d rather avoid dealing with.

The main thing said to me by fans of other clubs that I know over the last few days is, “You must be happy Levy’s gone.” To them, he had become (rightly or wrongly) a symbol of all those times we never quite got over the line. Time will tell whether they are right to suddenly be feeling a little bit more fearful.

Almost all of my Spurs supporting friends and family feel like me; grateful for what he did off the field, but happy to see change and a new approach to things hopefully coming into play - feelings which are very largely echoed on the other Spurs forums that I’ve dipped into over the part couple of days.

I’m not quite sure why this forum is so different in its opinion on him. One of the many quirks that makes this place interesting to me and keeps me coming back!

Less angry people I guess due to age… average age here is 40-50 I think. By that point in life you tend to have multiple things going on and less time to focus on things you can’t control
Most people want to use social media to vent and complain
There ain’t much of that on here because most of us on here are relatively mature and relatively respectful
we do have people like oldfool or whatever his and is who want to blame women’s no children along with why non white person for everything that’s wrong with life

 

[afsoc4life]

Less angry people I guess due to age… average age here is 40-50 I think. By that point in life you tend to have multiple things going on and less time to focus on things you can’t control
Most people want to use social media to vent and complain
There ain’t much of that on here because most of us on here are relatively mature and relatively respectful
we do have people like oldfool or whatever his and is who want to blame women’s no children along with why non white person for everything that’s wrong with life

Good point as well. I am in my 40s now and I have been following Spurs for over 30 years now. I have seen Spurs win and lose. That is a part of life, part of the journey. The world is increasingly become impatient.

 

[Grays_1890]

Less angry people I guess due to age… average age here is 40-50 I think. By that point in life you tend to have multiple things going on and less time to focus on things you can’t control
Most people want to use social media to vent and complain
There ain’t much of that on here because most of us on here are relatively mature and relatively respectful
we do have people like oldfool or whatever his and is who want to blame women’s no children along with why non white person for everything that’s wrong with life

Absolutely spot on, people are adults who can make their own minds up, the days of needing point reaffirmed in the pub by mob mentality in my 20s are well gone. I look at football in the same way I look at life in many ways, where as many I look at their posts about football and think "if thats what you think as a grown man how do you survive in life" Footballs been huge in my life, it still is, but I see it all in a different light as I get older.

 

[Baleforce]

Exactly this, some love their club for their club, I'm not a win at all costs guy, the season i got to travel the country and see Jurgen Klinsmann tear it up with my old man was worth any trophy that may or may not been won under Roman or City.

Not bothered how small time that's sounds, I've seen this club win things and it's meant as much as anything.

Im happy with who we are our identity, not everyine is as self loathing about us as some fans

I’m proud that the club have tried to do things the right way.

I’d have been disgusted and turned my cards in had we just tried to buy success, that would be meaningless.

 

[Grays_1890]

I’m proud that the club have tried to do things the right way.

I’d have been disgusted and turned my cards in had we just tried to buy success, that would be meaningless.

People can bookmark this and say what they like about the way the games going, but as soon as we are state owned, thats me gone.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Absolutely spot on, people are adults who can make their own minds up, the days of needing point reaffirmed in the pub by mob mentality in my 20s are well gone. I look at football in the same way I look at life in many ways, where as many I look at their posts about football and think "if thats what you think as a grown man how do you survive in life" Footballs been huge in my life, it still is, but I see it all in a different light as I get older.

The anti mob whenever I see it is a mixture of angry young folk and older forgotten faces
Still see the old from the trust rage baiting with their tweets
The CFT crew taking credit for anything and everything to try to legitimise themselves
It’s what happens
Feels quite Reform party ish
Grown ups make their own calls based on their own priorities and also what they can and can’t influence
It’s personally why I’ve always been ambivalent about levy. Imo he has always tried to do whatever he can to take the club forward which also includes mistakes made along the way and successes too
None of which I control and my influence is limited to me paying for my ST, something I choose to do knowing my own personal circumstances

 

[Grays_1890]

The anti mob whenever I see it is a mixture of angry young folk and older forgotten faces
Still see the old from the trust rage baiting with their tweets
The CFT crew taking credit for anything and everything to try to legitimise themselves
It’s what happens
Feels quite Reform party ish
Grown ups make their own calls based on their own priorities and also what they can and can’t influence
It’s personally why I’ve always been ambivalent about levy. Imo he has always tried to do whatever he can to take the club forward which also includes mistakes made along the way and successes too
None of which I control and my influence is limited to me paying for my ST, something I choose to do knowing my own personal circumstances

Also there is so much noise, many of which, like CFT is about people wanting to drive their own personalities. That Billie T fella used to talk football and was a fairly informed funny poster on twitter, now he is using blue tick twitter to peddle a whole summer about the transfer window to wind fans up and then face the CFT campaign. Its as much about him now as it is his beliefs 100%. You X that by the number of people doing the same like O'Keefe (selling Merch) and Sacks and Co and all the rest, then its just all noise............

Far more money and influence in the support ranks to be negative than it is positive

 

[billyiddo]

The middle paragraph is so true. We used to crow about getting more points than any other team for 2 seasons when Poch was manager and Leicester and Chelsea won the league. It’s the same line Arsenal are using now because they finished 2nd 3 years running and amassed more points than anyone else. But if you don’t actually win then what does it matter? Consistency is great but there has to be a tangible result at the end of it. Would you rather finish 2nd 3 years in a row or win the title once and finish 3rd/4th/5th in the other seasons like Liverpool and Emirates Marketing Project did? I know which one I’d prefer.

This crowing over a points total amounted to a little more than recognising it as something that had happened that is was good sign for where we were and how we were progressing. Like with a lot of your posts you build a strawman argument against an extreme position that no one actually holds

 

[harr1984]

I see those back and forth sparked by people saying positive things about Levy (on the football side) too.

I think we've improved and kicked on several times, but we've also had periods of decline and examples of not kicking on.

I think we're a big club. Not the size of the biggest clubs in Europe and England (what I think of as the super clubs). We're not THAT far off, but we're not at their size.

I think trophies are one measure of success, not THE measure of success for us. And particularly when talking about what Levy has done for the club on the footballing side I don't think trophies alone is what should be looked at. Like I said, to what extent trophies are the measure of success seems the key disagreement.

For those super clubs too. Give them a couple of rough years where the things that were a given when success was measured on trophies and it turns out CL participation, European participation, being able to attract and keep great players is actually seen as important markers of success.

Fair and I'm not keen on arguing about Levy because I appreciate him but I can't say I agree with your last paragraph regarding 'super clubs'.

Liverpool/Chelsea/Man U etc have all had poor domestic seasons but have won trophies during those years too. The only club who haven't is the Goons under Arteta, they are complete hypocrites. Their fans used to say when we were finishing above them with 2nd/3rd placed finished that trophies were what mattered which I could accept. Now they are winning naff all but 'competing' for the title it is a very different story.

Football fans eh...

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Yes, for the time being that's correct - can only hope it means new owners coming in at some point.

I have already said would have preferred Levy to remain with new owners on board, but can at least take some comfort in knowing some of the Lewis family are Spurs fans so wouldn't just hand over ownership to someone not with the clubs best interests at heart....

I hope your right.

There's no knowing an individuals characteristics and motives. Usually supporting a football club runs deep (stupidly so), so you hope wanting the best for it would trump anything. It's certainly an interesting question.

I suppose with DL we knew the answer to that question.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Good point as well. I am in my 40s now and I have been following Spurs for over 30 years now. I have seen Spurs win and lose. That is a part of life, part of the journey. The world is increasingly become impatient.

49 now
Senior guy in a huge company
2 kids, wife and a dog
Seen us lose more finals now than win
Still go
Still spend a fortune on the club
It’s a choice, and arguably currently a way of life. My choice though, no one else’s.