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Coronavirus

Lilbaz said:
They've been doing it all through the pandemic. Notice how at the beginning of the pandemic both the guardian and the mirror used the amount of excess deaths to measure how bad the pandemic was in the uk? When this number dropped below the official number (many that died were close to death already) they switched to the number of deaths with covid mentioned on the death certificate (not within 28 days).
They slaughtered them over the decision to make the gap between vaccinations to 3 months. Which was the right decision.
They also slaughtered the decision to remove restrictions in july. Which was also the right decision.
They wanted a zero covid strategy. Which would have left us in an eternal cycle of lockdowns (as china are finding out now). Not because they wanted to save lives, but because it wasn't the strategy the government was using.
The whole herd immunity thing was a joke. The government made it pretty clear what the strategy was day 1. Flatten the curve, protect the nhs.

The government has made monumental mistakes. Keep your criticism to them.
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Covid is a no win situation for government, especially Western government who are unused to these measures and with less compliant populations.
So im willing to cut them some slack on how they have dealt with it in most areas.
What really annoys me is two things, the reporting of it, which has been a complete scandal. The excess deaths figures for instance have been a joke. This is my job and has been for almost 30 years, so i know what I'm talking about.
The handling of contracts and how they are doled out has also something i take extreme issue with, heads really should roll for that.
 
glasgowspur said:
Covid is a no win situation for government, especially Western government who are unused to these measures and with less compliant populations.
So im willing to cut them some slack on how they have dealt with it in most areas.
What really annoys me is two things, the reporting of it, which has been a complete scandal. The excess deaths figures for instance have been a joke. This is my job and has been for almost 30 years, so i know what I'm talking about.
The handling of contracts and how they are doled out has also something i take extreme issue with, heads really should roll for that.
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I think there should be prison sentences. It's theft on an unimaginable scale. From the people you are supposed to represent.
 
I get the ppe stuff. We had contracts with factories in india and china to provide us ppe in an emergency situation. Both countries stopped exports. Creating a scramble by all countries to get their hands on ppe. It should be made in this country, without reliance on other countries.

Even the "out of date" ppe wasn't really. We have stock, that if isn't used is retested once a year to make sure it meets standards.

But the cash to mates at absolute rip off prices, that's still going on. The cost of testing? Ffs. The decision to not block flights from india when delta was there which we knew? So we could get a trade deal. Test and trace? The app? It's the same companies that have failed to deliver over and over, yet we go back to them over and over.
 
Lilbaz said:
I get the ppe stuff. We had contracts with factories in india and china to provide us ppe in an emergency situation. Both countries stopped exports. Creating a scramble by all countries to get their hands on ppe. It should be made in this country, without reliance on other countries.

Even the "out of date" ppe wasn't really. We have stock, that if isn't used is retested once a year to make sure it meets standards.

But the cash to mates at absolute rip off prices, that's still going on. The cost of testing? Ffs. The decision to not block flights from india when delta was there which we knew? So we could get a trade deal. Test and trace? The app? It's the same companies that have failed to deliver over and over, yet we go back to them over and over.
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There were failures from the word go.

Johnson at Twickenham shaking hands with all and sundry as Italy and Spain were being hit by the first wave. The idiocy of Atletico fans being allowed into Liverpool when football had been shut down in their own country. Cheltenham Festival going ahead. The claim that ‘a protective ring’ had been thrown around care homes even as positive elderly patients were being shipped back into those places…

And there were huge systematic failures before even that, with various clear warnings ignored in preceding years that we were ill-prepared for a pandemic.

They were dealt a difficult hand, but the response has, by and large, been an absolute shambles.
 
Mikey10 said:
There were failures from the word go.

Johnson at Twickenham shaking hands with all and sundry as Italy and Spain were being hit by the first wave. The idiocy of Atletico fans being allowed into Liverpool when football had been shut down in their own country. Cheltenham Festival going ahead. The claim that ‘a protective ring’ had been thrown around care homes even as positive elderly patients were being shipped back into those places…

And there were huge systematic failures before even that, with various clear warnings ignored in preceding years that we were ill-prepared for a pandemic.

They were dealt a difficult hand, but the response has, by and large, been an absolute shambles.
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They should have assumed it was airborne and you could have asymptomatic cases.
The nightingale hospitals should have been used and kept covid patients out of at least some hospitals so they could have been used normally.

There were loads of f ups.

But the media including the guardian have been brick throughout. Creating confusion. Doing stories of how the nhs is a racist institution. Then doing stories that ethnic minorities are reluctant to take the vax due to historical racism? Seriously wtf? How are they meant to trust the vax? It's like they don't want them to take it.
 
Lilbaz said:
I get the ppe stuff. We had contracts with factories in india and china to provide us ppe in an emergency situation. Both countries stopped exports. Creating a scramble by all countries to get their hands on ppe. It should be made in this country, without reliance on other countries.

Even the "out of date" ppe wasn't really. We have stock, that if isn't used is retested once a year to make sure it meets standards.

But the cash to mates at absolute rip off prices, that's still going on. The cost of testing? Ffs. The decision to not block flights from india when delta was there which we knew? So we could get a trade deal. Test and trace? The app? It's the same companies that have failed to deliver over and over, yet we go back to them over and over.
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This is no surprise to me whatsoever. I said it at the time.

The biggest problem is that it is somehow conflated -by some- as 'proof' that this is all a 'pandemic' when that is not the case. This was/is absolutely a pandemic which required/requires proper PPE and all the rest...sadly, the chancers in charge also saw an opportunity to line their coffers further, and then agitators and conspiracy theorists conflate the two, arriving at a bunk conclusion and disinformation.


Instead it is the same old fudging flimflam where corrupt 'leaders' (in this case 'leaders' UNFIT to lead fudging Toytown let alone the UK) simply milk a crisis for every last pound they can wherever they can and whenever they can. They did it for the second Iraq war, with contracts for friends in hardware and infrastructure, and they'll continue to do it wherever and whenever they can. Let's put it this way, whoever quipped 'never let a good crisis go to waste' glibly knew what they were talking about.

Sadly, if you're waiting for reprisal or punishment, you'll be waiting a long fudging time mate and I most certainly would not hold your breath.
 
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thfcsteff said:
This is no surprise to me whatsoever. I said it at the time.

The biggest problem is that it is somehow conflated -by some- as 'proof' that this is all a 'pandemic' when that is not the case. Instead it is the same old fudging flimflam where corrupt 'leaders' (in this case 'leaders' UNFIT to lead fudging Toytown let alone the UK) simply milk a crisis for every last pound they can wherever they can and whenever they can. They did it for the second Iraq war, with contracts for friends in hardware and infrastructure, and they'll continue to do it wherever and whenever they can. Let's put it this way, whoever quipped 'never let a good crisis go to waste' glibly knew what they were talking about.

Sadly, if you're waiting for reprisal or punishment, you'll be waiting a long fudging time mate and I most certainly would not hold your breath.
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Labour are no better though. They took us into that war on the lie of wmds.

Wrong thread for it. Just wish we had an independent unit that could punish it. Hold people accountable. 1 arrest over the 2008 financial crisis? Are you kidding me? None for this one i bet.
 
Lilbaz said:
Labour are no better though. They took us into that war on the lie of wmds.

Wrong thread for it. Just wish we had an independent unit that could punish it. Hold people accountable. 1 arrest over the 2008 financial crisis? Are you kidding me? None for this one i bet.
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I was not being 'party-centric' in any way. I spell Bliar 'Bliar' for a reason. I don't see it as 'better or worse' just power lining it's own pockets.

Sadly such things will never properly exist IMO.
 
thfcsteff said:
I was not being 'party-centric' in any way. I spell Bliar 'Bliar' for a reason. I don't see it as 'better or worse' just power lining it's own pockets.

Sadly such things will never properly exist IMO.
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Sorry just too used to people picking a side these days, on everything.

It can exist, it has in the past it can again. Norways government when north sea oil being a great example. Instead of spending the money short term, they created an investment firm. All profits from oil went into it. That would then invest in companies around the world. Dividends would go to subsidise pensions, infrastucture projects etc... the fund now owns 1% of the worlds economy and have people on the boards of some of the worlds biggest companies. Yet are in the top 3 countries on the climate index chart (uk is 4th by the by). Competent, long term thinking. Not bad for a population of 5 million.
 
Lilbaz said:
Sorry just too used to people picking a side these days, on everything.

It can exist, it has in the past it can again. Norways government when north sea oil being a great example. Instead of spending the money short term, they created an investment firm. All profits from oil went into it. That would then invest in companies around the world. Dividends would go to subsidise pensions, infrastucture projects etc... the fund now owns 1% of the worlds economy and have people on the boards of some of the worlds biggest companies. Yet are in the top 3 countries on the climate index chart (uk is 4th by the by). Competent, long term thinking. Not bad for a population of 5 million.
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When I said ‘will never properly exist’ I meant self-accountability for the egregious behaviour. With regards to Norway (and Scandinavia in general) I have enormous respect for how their societies work.
 
Mikey10 said:
There were failures from the word go.

Johnson at Twickenham shaking hands with all and sundry as Italy and Spain were being hit by the first wave. The idiocy of Atletico fans being allowed into Liverpool when football had been shut down in their own country. Cheltenham Festival going ahead. The claim that ‘a protective ring’ had been thrown around care homes even as positive elderly patients were being shipped back into those places…

And there were huge systematic failures before even that, with various clear warnings ignored in preceding years that we were ill-prepared for a pandemic.

They were dealt a difficult hand, but the response has, by and large, been an absolute shambles.
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Everything is a crisis these days, and most last a couple of days and disappear into the wide blue yonder.
That's what i reckon they thought about this, that it was a Johnny foreigner thing and never get here, it would fade away before it got here. All of Europe thought that. Scottish government had cases of it at a Nike conference before it actually became a major issue and covered it up.
But once they realised that this was going to hit us and pretty they have made the best of it, for themselves of course.
Pocket lining contracts, controlling laws that two years ago would have seen riots in every city in the land, fear, distraction, debt and the ability to shrug their shoulders and blame everything on covid.
This really is crisis that has seen no opportunity going to waste.
If this isn't a wake up call to the world and how we are being led then we should just throw the towel in.
 
Lilbaz said:
Sorry just too used to people picking a side these days, on everything.

It can exist, it has in the past it can again. Norways government when north sea oil being a great example. Instead of spending the money short term, they created an investment firm. All profits from oil went into it. That would then invest in companies around the world. Dividends would go to subsidise pensions, infrastucture projects etc... the fund now owns 1% of the worlds economy and have people on the boards of some of the worlds biggest companies. Yet are in the top 3 countries on the climate index chart (uk is 4th by the by). Competent, long term thinking. Not bad for a population of 5 million.
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An argument that is thrown about quite often up here when indy and oil raises it head, so every second day.
What is often overlooked is that at the time the uk wasn't really in a position to save the money, put it aside for a rainy day.
It was tinkling down and the corrugated iron we had for a roof was riddled with holes.
High rates of unemployment, inflation, debt and interest rates.
It's easy to look back and say we should have done this or that but at the time we needed to spend the money.
 
Symptom study showing a slight increase again today 66,600. Total currently infected 981,724.

Seems to lag the daily cases.
 
glasgowspur said:
Scotland and NI now talking about passport and negative test before entry.
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They are just ID cards for more statist governments (or data harvesting tools for those in the pockets of the corporations). There's no health grounds whatsoever now twentysomethings have been vaccinated and have low rates
 
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