Coronavirus

[scaramanga]

I'm struggling to understand what you mean. Was it a false choice or wasn't it?

I guess it depends on how far you want to stretch the bounds of possible.

Vaccinating everyone on day one would have been my preferred option but was outside the bounds of possibility.

Equally applying the sort of restrictions necessary in a place as densely populated as the UK would have been impossible given the nature of our society.

To restrict deaths by restricting freedom it would have to be possible to achieve zero covid? That doesn't make practical or theoretical sense to me.

Not zero in a literal sense, but a zero COVID policy - I don't think that would have bee accepted.

Drunk driving laws reduce traffic accidents due to drunk driving, but doesn't eliminate them so the argument that restricting freedom would restrict deaths is no longer valid?

Drink driving is a good example (although we have to assume a benefit from drink driving to make it really fit).

It took decades in this country to get to the point where we are now where drink driving is almost eliminated. The laws were certainly not taken very seriously until it became socially unacceptable.

We could have fully enforced them immediately by stopping every car and testing everyone but people would not accept that level of control.

That is a different conversation. If your starting point is that restricting freedom wouldn't restrict deaths I can see why you would reach that conclusion, but I can't understand how you reached that starting point.

It's the same conversation if the level of control required to keep COVID deaths significantly lower is past the point people will accept.

 

[scaramanga]

Shutting things down properly doesn't spread it anyway. That's not true. We have the proof in Australia, NZ, Singapore and Vietnam. Shutting down like our govt did was necessary to save lives and was driven by desperation rather than any plan to get the economy fully open long term as they deep down felt herd immunity would work as you did. What is clear is this was wrong.

Letting people die rather than you give up your location which you already do on your phone is the most ridiculous thing you have ever said on here mate. And I feel it is part of some BS contrarian persona you have built on here. I don't buy it.

Giving away my location is a choice I make for what to get in return - avoiding traffic, being notified of speed traps, etc.

Choosing is very different to being made to.

 

[scaramanga]

Stopping at a traffic light is a restriction on freedom. You can't move to keep people safe. F*ckin communists.

If it's late at night, there's no camera on the lights and there's nothing coming in any direction, do you wait for the lights to go green?

 

[LutonSpurs]

If it's late at night, there's no camera on the lights and there's nothing coming in any direction, do you wait for the lights to go green?

If you want. Which is why it is a choice. Traffic lights aren't robbing you of a freedom though. Neither would have lockdown. It would have stopped some people from dying.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Giving away my location is a choice I make for what to get in return - avoiding traffic, being notified of speed traps, etc.

Choosing is very different to being made to.

Choosing to save lives rather than go by your flawed herd immunity concept is the way to go lad.

 

[scaramanga]

If you want. Which is why it is a choice. Traffic lights aren't robbing you of a freedom though. Neither would have lockdown. It would have stopped some people from dying.

They are, the freedom lost is just minor.

I wouldn't described being tracked by the govt and effectively put under house arrest as being minor. Those are not acceptable.

 

[scaramanga]

Choosing to save lives rather than go by your flawed herd immunity concept is the way to go lad.

Fortunately the govt didn't agree with you and didn't have to face the consequences of trying to do so.

Although they did choose to fudge with the economy and not save anyone, which was pretty stupid.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

But again, seeing countries with fewer restrictions get hit as bad economically would indicate that the choice was a false one?

If it was possible to protect the economy more by imposing fewer restrictions wouldn't you expect the countries with fewer restrictions to be doing better in terms of GDP?

Hear me out, this might be controversial, but hear me out. It almost seems like having a higher spread of the virus, leading to more sick people and more people dying, somehow hurts the economy. As if the health of the people operating within the economy matters to the health of the economy.

Yep. People need to accept that an open economy and education system is a function of a healthy population. You don’t get the former without the latter.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

On a different note: what would you do in this situation?

Someone v close to me died recently (not Covid) and the funeral is in a couple of weeks.

I want to go and have to go (really) and I’ve already said that we’ll need to be v careful about distancing, masks etc, yet I am nervous about going.

I really don’t want to catch this thing and I certainly don’t want to be responsible for spreading it if I happened to be asymptotically positive and infectious (relatively less likely I know but possible).

Would you go?

 

[scaramanga]

On a different note: what would you do in this situation?

Someone v close to me died recently (not Covid) and the funeral is in a couple of weeks.

I want to go and have to go (really) and I’ve already said that we’ll need to be v careful about distancing, masks etc, yet I am nervous about going.

I really don’t want to catch this thing and I certainly don’t want to be responsible for spreading it if I happened to be asymptotically positive and infectious (relatively less likely I know but possible).

Would you go?

Yep.

 

[Bullet]

On a different note: what would you do in this situation?

Someone v close to me died recently (not Covid) and the funeral is in a couple of weeks.

I want to go and have to go (really) and I’ve already said that we’ll need to be v careful about distancing, masks etc, yet I am nervous about going.

I really don’t want to catch this thing and I certainly don’t want to be responsible for spreading it if I happened to be asymptotically positive and infectious (relatively less likely I know but possible).

Would you go?

I wouldn't go; that is not what they would have wanted, presumably.

 

[LutonSpurs]

On a different note: what would you do in this situation?

Someone v close to me died recently (not Covid) and the funeral is in a couple of weeks.

I want to go and have to go (really) and I’ve already said that we’ll need to be v careful about distancing, masks etc, yet I am nervous about going.

I really don’t want to catch this thing and I certainly don’t want to be responsible for spreading it if I happened to be asymptotically positive and infectious (relatively less likely I know but possible).

Would you go?

A friend's brother died from Covid last week. I was asked to come. The funeral was outdoors just by the burial ground and was socially distanced. I attended and followed the rules. My friend really needed some of his mates there and 3 of he asked attended.

Some things are important to do if you can maintain safety and you aren't breaking any rules. Which I did.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Also very sorry for your loss @Hotshot-Tottenham

 

[Diamond Lights]

On a different note: what would you do in this situation?

Someone v close to me died recently (not Covid) and the funeral is in a couple of weeks.

I want to go and have to go (really) and I’ve already said that we’ll need to be v careful about distancing, masks etc, yet I am nervous about going.

I really don’t want to catch this thing and I certainly don’t want to be responsible for spreading it if I happened to be asymptotically positive and infectious (relatively less likely I know but possible).

Would you go?

Sorry for your loss.

I'm no scientific expert but based on everything i've read/listened from those in science, if it's outdoors and you were socially distanced the chances are unlikely you could catch anything, and chuck in a mask too, i think it's safe.

Indoor areas, mask and airflow are the two major factors, and i mean open windows and doors along with social distance.

Basically:

Mask + Distance + Airflow. If you have all 3, based on scientific info publicly available you are in theory as best positioned as possible, nothing is 100% effective but that's as close as you can get.

 

[Baleforce]

On a different note: what would you do in this situation?

Someone v close to me died recently (not Covid) and the funeral is in a couple of weeks.

I want to go and have to go (really) and I’ve already said that we’ll need to be v careful about distancing, masks etc, yet I am nervous about going.

I really don’t want to catch this thing and I certainly don’t want to be responsible for spreading it if I happened to be asymptotically positive and infectious (relatively less likely I know but possible).

Would you go?

I was in that situation just before Christmas.

I didn’t go.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

On a different note: what would you do in this situation?

Someone v close to me died recently (not Covid) and the funeral is in a couple of weeks.

I want to go and have to go (really) and I’ve already said that we’ll need to be v careful about distancing, masks etc, yet I am nervous about going.

I really don’t want to catch this thing and I certainly don’t want to be responsible for spreading it if I happened to be asymptotically positive and infectious (relatively less likely I know but possible).

Would you go?

Yes
But I’d take every precaution that I believe is available other than not going
These are one off experiences. You ain’t putting that person to rest ever again so IMO I’d go

 

[awesome dawson]

If you're going to include measures that can only possibly be theoretical in the UK then yes, you are correct.

But given the options available to the UK, zero COVID was an impossibility, so the argument that restricting freedom would restrict deaths is no longer valid.

Wrong. As usual.

 

[scaramanga]

Wrong. As usual.

You clearly don't know people over here well enough.

We don't have nearly enough obedient, sheep-like people to put those measures in place.

 

[awesome dawson]

You clearly don't know people over here well enough.

We don't have nearly enough obedient, sheep-like people to put those measures in place.

I was born there, lived there for 30 years and have many friends and family that reside there. Once again, you're talking brick.

 

[scaramanga]

I was born there, lived there for 30 years and have many friends and family that reside there. Once again, you're talking brick.

You clearly don't spend enough time here. You should come back, break some rules, own some clothes that go below the knees, etc