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Cheatski are still scum

billyiddo said:
Lol, way off the mark here - He's come out of this fairly intact and most people seem to be scratching their heads as to why Chelsea would be moving on given he has turned it around and got them clicking in the second half of the season, if the season went on another couple of weeks they'd have likely finished above us and cgallenging fir the CL places. He will be in a good job come the start of the season.

Chelsea fans saying he wanted to keep Gallagher & Chalobah and have more say in how the team is built whereas the club want a manager who will take what's given - i mean more fool him as that was clearly the way they were planning to operate when he joined.
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I'd say that some of that is true - that he's got them finally playing, for instance. But the facts are that he's marked as being an "almost" man. For the positions he's held, and the ability of the teams he's had, he's fallen short. Examples such as when we came third in a two horse race, etc mark him down as being unable to get that final ingredient to make a good team a great one.

Before the Chelsea thing I'd gladly have accepted a second round of Poch, in the hope that by the time he came back he'd have gone away and sussed out where his approach fell short and remedied it. So far its quite clear he's not achieved that, and the failure at PSG was a stark one - that's a one club league and he barely made that stick, losing the league to Lille in the first season.

So yes there will be a number of people out there who are eyeballing Chelsea and wondering what they are doing, but the majority of people I would say will be looking at Poch and thinking that if their aims are winning trophies, he's really not the guy for them.
 
Surfless said:
I'd say that some of that is true - that he's got them finally playing, for instance. But the facts are that he's marked as being an "almost" man. For the positions he's held, and the ability of the teams he's had, he's fallen short. Examples such as when we came third in a two horse race, etc mark him down as being unable to get that final ingredient to make a good team a great one.

Before the Chelsea thing I'd gladly have accepted a second round of Poch, in the hope that by the time he came back he'd have gone away and sussed out where his approach fell short and remedied it. So far its quite clear he's not achieved that, and the failure at PSG was a stark one - that's a one club league and he barely made that stick, losing the league to Lille in the first season.

So yes there will be a number of people out there who are eyeballing Chelsea and wondering what they are doing, but the majority of people I would say will be looking at Poch and thinking that if their aims are winning trophies, he's really not the guy for them.
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Before Chelsea you would have taken him back because he might have progressed, but the evidence from Chelsea is that he hasn't, am I reading that correct?
Chelsea is and was a burning train wreck, nobody was going to turn that around in a season, I don't think we have learnt anything about whether he has progressed or not from his time there.
It was a bizarre appointment and just as bizarre was him taking it.
When/should ange leave my heart would have him back in a minute, my head says it's probably better not.
 
Surfless said:
I'd say that some of that is true - that he's got them finally playing, for instance. But the facts are that he's marked as being an "almost" man. For the positions he's held, and the ability of the teams he's had, he's fallen short. Examples such as when we came third in a two horse race, etc mark him down as being unable to get that final ingredient to make a good team a great one.

Before the Chelsea thing I'd gladly have accepted a second round of Poch, in the hope that by the time he came back he'd have gone away and sussed out where his approach fell short and remedied it. So far its quite clear he's not achieved that, and the failure at PSG was a stark one - that's a one club league and he barely made that stick, losing the league to Lille in the first season.

So yes there will be a number of people out there who are eyeballing Chelsea and wondering what they are doing, but the majority of people I would say will be looking at Poch and thinking that if their aims are winning trophies, he's really not the guy for them.
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The winning trophies stick that he is beaten with, IMHO is unfair. You have to look at the finals he's been involved in and whether or not he was expected to win them. A better measure, is does he leave teams in a better state than when he took them over.

Yes he has lost finals but so has every elite manager including SAF, Klopp, Pep, Tuchel and Emery. In fact, Gasperini lost the Coppa Italia the week before winning the Europa League this week. Tuchel won the Champs League and lost the FA cup in the same season. Di Matteo won both the Champions League and FA cup in one season yet is not considered an elite manager.

He won all the domestic trophies in France yet he still fell short? Well every manager who's been there and there have been some bloody good ones over the years, has fallen short of winning the Champs League.

When it comes to Poch, it seems his detractors engage in "double think," where if he loses finals he can't win trophies and when he wins them, they are meaningless anyway. We will see where his next job is. Even if it is a big one, I am sure plenty on here will be telling us why he is unsuitable for it.
 
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I know it's hard to criticise a team that has both Neymar and Messi but he was kinda stuck having to play those stars who do zero pressing. I bet if he had stayed there longer he would have seen off Neymar and Messi and had more of his own team and style. But anyway, Still should have won that league lol

Now Chelsea are linked with the Leicester coach. Bloody hell they are trying to find a 'Yes man' aren't they?
 
dingdongo said:
I know it's hard to criticise a team that has both Neymar and Messi but he was kinda stuck having to play those stars who do zero pressing. I bet if he had stayed there longer he would have seen off Neymar and Messi and had more of his own team and style. But anyway, Still should have won that league lol

Now Chelsea are linked with the Leicester coach. Bloody hell they are trying to find a 'Yes man' aren't they?
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Bingo!

If they sell Gallagher & Chalobah soon, you get the answer of what truly tinkled Poch off
The coaches they are linked with, will also be significantly cheaper

Reality, logic is they should have kept him one more season, not renewed and found new coach next season (by that time, you would know which of the young players are worth keeping, which improved under him)
 
glasgowspur said:
Before Chelsea you would have taken him back because he might have progressed, but the evidence from Chelsea is that he hasn't, am I reading that correct?
Chelsea is and was a burning train wreck, nobody was going to turn that around in a season, I don't think we have learnt anything about whether he has progressed or not from his time there.
It was a bizarre appointment and just as bizarre was him taking it.
When/should ange leave my heart would have him back in a minute, my head says it's probably better not.
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The only part of the Chelsea saga I would reference as an indication of his progress or lack thereof is the cup final. When they should have gone for jugular when Liverpool were largely a team of kids and VVD, he couldn't get them to show that killer instinct.

Actually what he's shown at Chelsea in the league is almost exactly what he did with us. He took an underperforming side and gradually moulded them into a cogent unit who won more than they lost. The problem is that his one real chance of silverware, which would have likely kept him in a job, he couldnt get them up for it. Like in 2019 in the Champions League Final.

I will always look out for Poch and I hope he goes on to be a great manager in Spain and Italy, but for me his system has been shown over more or less 10 years to be unable to scale the heights of the Premier league. If you want 3rd or 4th each season he can deliver, but more than that is going to be a struggle.
 
Robspur12 said:
The winning trophies stick that he is beaten with, IMHO is unfair. You have to look at the finals he's been involved in and whether or not he was expected to win them. A better measure, is does he leave teams in a better state than when he took them over.

Yes he has lost finals but so has every elite manager including SAF, Klopp, Pep, Tuchel and Emery. In fact, Gasperini lost the Coppa Italia the week before winning the Europa League this week. Tuchel won the Champs League and lost the FA cup in the same season. Di Matteo won both the Champions League and FA cup in one season yet is not considered an elite manager.

He won all the domestic trophies in France yet he still fell short? Well every manager who's been there and there have been some bloody good ones over the years, has fallen short of winning the Champs League.

When it comes to Poch, it seems his detractors engage in "double think," where if he loses finals he can't win trophies and when he wins them, they are meaningless anyway. We will see where his next job is. Even if it is a big one, I am sure plenty on here will be telling us why he is unsuitable for it.
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I'm not sure you can compare Poch to Sir Alex Ferguson, Klopp, Pep or in fact any of those you list, because while they have lost finals, they have won a shed load more.

Fergie 38
Pep 38
Klopp 13
Tuchel 11
Emery 11
Poch 3

So on the law of averages Poch is vastly inferior to any of those managers. To say he won all the domestic cups in France is great, but all the others have either won in multiple countries or been serial winners over many, many years.

He's a fans favourite and I love him for what he did for us, but he's not elite, he's barely a winner.
 
Surfless said:
I'm not sure you can compare Poch to Sir Alex Ferguson, Klopp, Pep or in fact any of those you list, because while they have lost finals, they have won a shed load more.

Fergie 38
Pep 38
Klopp 13
Tuchel 11
Emery 11
Poch 3

So on the law of averages Poch is vastly inferior to any of those managers. To say he won all the domestic cups in France is great, but all the others have either won in multiple countries or been serial winners over many, many years.

He's a fans favourite and I love him for what he did for us, but he's not elite, he's barely a winner.
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Is comparing him to fergie at utd fair, even going back 10 years fergie probably spent more in one season than spurs spent in the whole of Poch tenure.
Pep, I mean come on, between barca, bayern and city that's some of the deepest the deepest pockets in world sport.
 
Surfless said:
The only part of the Chelsea saga I would reference as an indication of his progress or lack thereof is the cup final. When they should have gone for jugular when Liverpool were largely a team of kids and VVD, he couldn't get them to show that killer instinct.

Actually what he's shown at Chelsea in the league is almost exactly what he did with us. He took an underperforming side and gradually moulded them into a cogent unit who won more than they lost. The problem is that his one real chance of silverware, which would have likely kept him in a job, he couldnt get them up for it. Like in 2019 in the Champions League Final.

I will always look out for Poch and I hope he goes on to be a great manager in Spain and Italy, but for me his system has been shown over more or less 10 years to be unable to scale the heights of the Premier league. If you want 3rd or 4th each season he can deliver, but more than that is going to be a struggle.
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They were still in a mess, fragile, fractured and still early in the door.
Honestly don't think it would have made any difference to him keeping the job, to a club like Chelsea that is nothing more than a trinket.
He was never a long term answer, it's Chelsea, is anyone a long term answer.
 
Surfless said:
The only part of the Chelsea saga I would reference as an indication of his progress or lack thereof is the cup final. When they should have gone for jugular when Liverpool were largely a team of kids and VVD, he couldn't get them to show that killer instinct.

Actually what he's shown at Chelsea in the league is almost exactly what he did with us. He took an underperforming side and gradually moulded them into a cogent unit who won more than they lost. The problem is that his one real chance of silverware, which would have likely kept him in a job, he couldnt get them up for it. Like in 2019 in the Champions League Final.

I will always look out for Poch and I hope he goes on to be a great manager in Spain and Italy, but for me his system has been shown over more or less 10 years to be unable to scale the heights of the Premier league. If you want 3rd or 4th each season he can deliver, but more than that is going to be a struggle.
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This is pretty much what he seems to be to me too.

If you want someone who can take you from nowhere to nearly rans, he's your man. But if you want that final push over the line to actually win stuff - he's not the guy to do it.
 
Surfless said:
I'm not sure you can compare Poch to Sir Alex Ferguson, Klopp, Pep or in fact any of those you list, because while they have lost finals, they have won a shed load more.

Fergie 38
Pep 38
Klopp 13
Tuchel 11
Emery 11
Poch 3

So on the law of averages Poch is vastly inferior to any of those managers. To say he won all the domestic cups in France is great, but all the others have either won in multiple countries or been serial winners over many, many years.

He's a fans favourite and I love him for what he did for us, but he's not elite, he's barely a winner.
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Sir Alex is a genius, one of, if not the, greatest of all time. He built multiple amazing teams, yes he spent money later in his career, but never to the ridiculous levels that...

Pep has spent, insane amounts of money, that even a perfect record wouldn't be enough of an ROI, is he smart, of course he is, is he as smart as he thinks is, nowhere near, he stood on the shoulder of giants and just about did enough.

Klopp, criminal, and his medical team, the sooner the truth comes out the sooner the game can progress.

Tuchel, lol, absolute chancer, couldn't manage his way out of a wet paper bag.

Emery, he's got some game, should be at a big club.

Poch, looked amazing with us, but its all been very meh since, needs to get back to doing well at a big club.

There are two other managers who should be included, Jose, and Ancelotti, right up at the Fergie end of the spectrum.
 
Just noticed that Cheatski are going to play in the FIFA Club World Cup, along with City. No idea why Cheatski are in it, but I'm not complaining. Along with the ECL, it just means more utterly pointless games for them, so they'll run out of steam and pick up injuries towards the end of season, and also probably get a shed load of postponed games stacked up.
 
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markysimmo said:
O'Keefe is adamant that they will be charged and deducted at least 8 points next season
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They may be charged next season. But they'll possibly get as many charges as city. They'll then have to be given time to make a defence for each and everyone.
They've already put their hands up to it so it shouldn't take that long.
I think next season might be optimistic though.
 
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