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Carlyle takeover, was Cain Hoy takeover
- Thread starter Superhudd
- Start date
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
They announced their potential interest because they were obliged to, according to the City Code, after the story had already been leaked in the Telegraph.
They announced their potential interest because they were obliged to, according to the City Code, after the story had already been leaked in the Telegraph.
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
My memory of the events is that Cain Hoy's announcement and the Telegraph article were contemporaneous and occurred a couple of days after the "Mirror" article saying Tottenham were up for sale for £1 billion but that there were no takers. However, if Cain Hoy were indeed forced to make an announcement, they could quite easily have denied any current interest. They didn't. They announced their intention to investigate a bid, upon which statement Tottenham made a public response that there had been no discussions on a takeover. It's a bit odd that Cain Hoy apparently had done no investigations prior to considering an offer. Then a fortnight later, during which time very little if any due diligence could have been performed, they said they were pulling out, but may come back later. The effect of that was that they can't now do anything on the matter for 6 months (rather than a year as I suggested earlier). That is exactly the same situation as would have ensued had they said they weren't currently interested on 12th September. So, the only effects of all these shenanigans are publicity for Cain Hoy and a lot of Spurs fans with entangled underwear, in my view.
My memory of the events is that Cain Hoy's announcement and the Telegraph article were contemporaneous and occurred a couple of days after the "Mirror" article saying Tottenham were up for sale for £1 billion but that there were no takers. However, if Cain Hoy were indeed forced to make an announcement, they could quite easily have denied any current interest. They didn't. They announced their intention to investigate a bid, upon which statement Tottenham made a public response that there had been no discussions on a takeover. It's a bit odd that Cain Hoy apparently had done no investigations prior to considering an offer. Then a fortnight later, during which time very little if any due diligence could have been performed, they said they were pulling out, but may come back later. The effect of that was that they can't now do anything on the matter for 6 months (rather than a year as I suggested earlier). That is exactly the same situation as would have ensued had they said they weren't currently interested on 12th September. So, the only effects of all these shenanigans are publicity for Cain Hoy and a lot of Spurs fans with entangled underwear, in my view.
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
Nope. The Telegraph article was published a day or so before Cain Hoy's official announcement.
You say that Cain Hoy couldn't have conducted due diligence in the ten days or so between the original announcement and the confirmation that they would not be making a bid. But I doubt that it was a matter of due diligence. More likely that they held discussions with Levy and came to the conclusion that his valuation was so far from their own that there was no point in proceeding with a bid.
And, once again, you can repeat the publicity claim as often as you like but Cain Hoy are simply not the kind of outfit that need that kind of publicity. It doesn't help them in the slightest.
Oh, and I'm guessing that the reason why they didn't deny that they had an interest in buying Spurs is because, well, they DID have an interest in buying Spurs.
Nope. The Telegraph article was published a day or so before Cain Hoy's official announcement.
You say that Cain Hoy couldn't have conducted due diligence in the ten days or so between the original announcement and the confirmation that they would not be making a bid. But I doubt that it was a matter of due diligence. More likely that they held discussions with Levy and came to the conclusion that his valuation was so far from their own that there was no point in proceeding with a bid.
And, once again, you can repeat the publicity claim as often as you like but Cain Hoy are simply not the kind of outfit that need that kind of publicity. It doesn't help them in the slightest.
Oh, and I'm guessing that the reason why they didn't deny that they had an interest in buying Spurs is because, well, they DID have an interest in buying Spurs.
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Re: Cain Hoy takeover
I have an interest in buying Spurs. I know what the price is likely to be and guess what? I'm not interested at that price. Cain Hoy knew what the ball-park price might be, because it had been leaked; they knew that they had only been in discussions on funding, not a takeover; they knew they didn't have enough information to make a bid, which is why they stated that they were making "preliminary" investigations. A fortnight later they stopped the "preliminary" investigations and stated that they were no longer interested at this stage, despite not having had time to make any meaningful investigations. What could have changed in that fortnight? I can't think of anything. Can you? If so, please enlighten me. You suggest that they may have had discussions with Levy, but I'd suggest that this is highly unlikely given Tottenham's stance that "“Neither the club, nor its majority shareholder, are in any takeover discussions and the focus of the club is fully on delivering the new stadium project.” and Cain Hoy's admission in their original statement that "This announcement has been made without the consent of Tottenham Hotspur.” If there's nothing else, what did they gain and what are they likely to gain from their actions? I'd say nothing but publicity. You say they don't need it, but they got it and precious little else. What did they lose? I'd say nothing. The end result is publicity for Cain Hoy; otherwise the status quo. I don't believe in coincidence in a fabricated situation such as this.
However, I can see that we are not going to agree on this, so I won't prolong the agony any further.
I have an interest in buying Spurs. I know what the price is likely to be and guess what? I'm not interested at that price. Cain Hoy knew what the ball-park price might be, because it had been leaked; they knew that they had only been in discussions on funding, not a takeover; they knew they didn't have enough information to make a bid, which is why they stated that they were making "preliminary" investigations. A fortnight later they stopped the "preliminary" investigations and stated that they were no longer interested at this stage, despite not having had time to make any meaningful investigations. What could have changed in that fortnight? I can't think of anything. Can you? If so, please enlighten me. You suggest that they may have had discussions with Levy, but I'd suggest that this is highly unlikely given Tottenham's stance that "“Neither the club, nor its majority shareholder, are in any takeover discussions and the focus of the club is fully on delivering the new stadium project.” and Cain Hoy's admission in their original statement that "This announcement has been made without the consent of Tottenham Hotspur.” If there's nothing else, what did they gain and what are they likely to gain from their actions? I'd say nothing but publicity. You say they don't need it, but they got it and precious little else. What did they lose? I'd say nothing. The end result is publicity for Cain Hoy; otherwise the status quo. I don't believe in coincidence in a fabricated situation such as this.
However, I can see that we are not going to agree on this, so I won't prolong the agony any further.
milo
Jack L. Jones
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
There's a lot of unsupported assumptions here LesMedley. Cain Hoy's interest was sufficient to trigger the City Code on Takeovers and Mergers. When they registered an interest in buying the club, the code kicked in and the statements released by Cain Hoy and the club were a legal requirement, rather than something they chose to do. Therefore, Cain Hoy's statement that you quote was released under this code, so drawing attention to it being made without the club's consent is irrelevant because you would not expect the club to consent to the statement.
I agree with Jimmy. I think that it is likely that between the period of the initial statement and them withdrawing their interest this week, it is likely that there have been preliminary negotiations about how much ENIC want for their shares in the club and that Cain Hoy dropped their interest because their valuation of the club is significantly lower than that of Levy and Lewis. It is also worth remembering that they could always re-enter negotiations at a later date, so they could have just been laying down a marker and maybe seeing if they can flush out any other interested parties.
I think that to make a "they were doing it for publicity" argument worth considering you need to demonstrate a motive and I have not seen you suggest one so far.
There's a lot of unsupported assumptions here LesMedley. Cain Hoy's interest was sufficient to trigger the City Code on Takeovers and Mergers. When they registered an interest in buying the club, the code kicked in and the statements released by Cain Hoy and the club were a legal requirement, rather than something they chose to do. Therefore, Cain Hoy's statement that you quote was released under this code, so drawing attention to it being made without the club's consent is irrelevant because you would not expect the club to consent to the statement.
I agree with Jimmy. I think that it is likely that between the period of the initial statement and them withdrawing their interest this week, it is likely that there have been preliminary negotiations about how much ENIC want for their shares in the club and that Cain Hoy dropped their interest because their valuation of the club is significantly lower than that of Levy and Lewis. It is also worth remembering that they could always re-enter negotiations at a later date, so they could have just been laying down a marker and maybe seeing if they can flush out any other interested parties.
I think that to make a "they were doing it for publicity" argument worth considering you need to demonstrate a motive and I have not seen you suggest one so far.
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
If there was a leak, which I'm not convinced of, but seems to be the consensus, who triggered it? Cui Bono? It's hardly likely to be Tottenham because they don't welcome the interest, and want to concentrate on the NPD. Both Tottenham and Cain Hoy are agreed on that. Cain Hoy does not consist of a vast staff; it only started operations on 11th September, so if the leak was from Cain Hoy, it is highly unlikely to have been from some underling. If it was not from Cain Hoy, it surely had to have been from Tottenham, who gain nothing from leaking it. So, it is almost certain to have been from Cain Hoy, and unless Cain Hoy are incompetent and ignorant of Stock Exchange regulations they must have known the consequences of the leak. What would they gain, when within a fortnight of the matter becoming public, they have withdrawn, and in the meantime have announced that they are involved in another development which has been underway for months? There is not one bit of evidence to back up any claim that Cain Hoy and Tottenham have been in any negotiations whatsoever since the Stock Exchange announcements. Indeed at that time ENIC made it clear they weren't interested, so Cain Hoy working out that they couldn't afford the asking price after the announcements doesn't make sense. Why would they want to flush out other interested parties? That would surely only tend to put the price up, even if there are other interested parties, an assumption for which again there is not one bit of evidence. To quote you: "There's a lot of unsupported assumptions here".
And I've stated what I think the motive is: publicity. Are you asking for a motive for the motive?
If there was a leak, which I'm not convinced of, but seems to be the consensus, who triggered it? Cui Bono? It's hardly likely to be Tottenham because they don't welcome the interest, and want to concentrate on the NPD. Both Tottenham and Cain Hoy are agreed on that. Cain Hoy does not consist of a vast staff; it only started operations on 11th September, so if the leak was from Cain Hoy, it is highly unlikely to have been from some underling. If it was not from Cain Hoy, it surely had to have been from Tottenham, who gain nothing from leaking it. So, it is almost certain to have been from Cain Hoy, and unless Cain Hoy are incompetent and ignorant of Stock Exchange regulations they must have known the consequences of the leak. What would they gain, when within a fortnight of the matter becoming public, they have withdrawn, and in the meantime have announced that they are involved in another development which has been underway for months? There is not one bit of evidence to back up any claim that Cain Hoy and Tottenham have been in any negotiations whatsoever since the Stock Exchange announcements. Indeed at that time ENIC made it clear they weren't interested, so Cain Hoy working out that they couldn't afford the asking price after the announcements doesn't make sense. Why would they want to flush out other interested parties? That would surely only tend to put the price up, even if there are other interested parties, an assumption for which again there is not one bit of evidence. To quote you: "There's a lot of unsupported assumptions here".
And I've stated what I think the motive is: publicity. Are you asking for a motive for the motive?
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
It's better to work for things in life than throw everything you've got at scratch cards
It's better to work for things in life than throw everything you've got at scratch cards
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
Noted. I'll try to look at Chelsea winning the title again this season and be thankful for our net profits, our impossibly stingy owners and our managerial merry-go-rounds. Same goes for watching City swagger around in the CL with their owners subsidising tickets (with their fans paying on average the lowest ticket prices in the PL) and creating a fan-friendly atmosphere, as opposed to paying the second-highest season ticket prices in the PL in return for one League Cup, on-the-cheap stadium building and transfer windows like this summer's.
Anyway, we've secured a good point today, I'll focus on that and move on.
Noted. I'll try to look at Chelsea winning the title again this season and be thankful for our net profits, our impossibly stingy owners and our managerial merry-go-rounds. Same goes for watching City swagger around in the CL with their owners subsidising tickets (with their fans paying on average the lowest ticket prices in the PL) and creating a fan-friendly atmosphere, as opposed to paying the second-highest season ticket prices in the PL in return for one League Cup, on-the-cheap stadium building and transfer windows like this summer's.
Anyway, we've secured a good point today, I'll focus on that and move on.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
It's all hollow though. Delayed gratification is so much sweeter.
It's all hollow though. Delayed gratification is so much sweeter.
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
I hope this 'delayed' gratification arrives before the generation of fans born soon after 1961 die off: else we'll have had an entire section of our fanbase shuffle off this mortal coil without ever seeing us win the league in person. And, funnily enough, our high season ticket prices are currently helping us ensure that a large portion of the matchday revenues come from that particular section of financially-settled fans. Won't matter though: the game is ultimately about netting ENIC a profit on their purchase without any signifcant investment on their part. Doubt that'll fit on the hoardings around the stadium, but it's a fact.
Like I said though, screw it. It's a sunny afternoon here in 'ssauga, we've earned a good point and I'm not going to change your mind. Prefer not to dwell on our beloved owners.
I hope this 'delayed' gratification arrives before the generation of fans born soon after 1961 die off: else we'll have had an entire section of our fanbase shuffle off this mortal coil without ever seeing us win the league in person. And, funnily enough, our high season ticket prices are currently helping us ensure that a large portion of the matchday revenues come from that particular section of financially-settled fans. Won't matter though: the game is ultimately about netting ENIC a profit on their purchase without any signifcant investment on their part. Doubt that'll fit on the hoardings around the stadium, but it's a fact.
Like I said though, screw it. It's a sunny afternoon here in 'ssauga, we've earned a good point and I'm not going to change your mind. Prefer not to dwell on our beloved owners.
milo
Jack L. Jones
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
The leak could have come from an intermediary.
I am asking why you think that Cain Hoy would seek publicity?
The leak could have come from an intermediary.
I am asking why you think that Cain Hoy would seek publicity?
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
The problem is that you're trying to complicate something that isn't complicated. You're ignoring all the evidence about what kind of a company Cain Hoy is and what kind of publicity that they might need (if any), simply so that you can force your square peg of a theory into a round hole.
You say that you don't wish to continue the conversation any further. Fair enough. I, too, will sign off with just two words: Occam's Razor.
The problem is that you're trying to complicate something that isn't complicated. You're ignoring all the evidence about what kind of a company Cain Hoy is and what kind of publicity that they might need (if any), simply so that you can force your square peg of a theory into a round hole.
You say that you don't wish to continue the conversation any further. Fair enough. I, too, will sign off with just two words: Occam's Razor.
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Re: Cain Hoy takeover
Tottenham are facing a new takeover bid — this time from another American consortium backed by one of the world’s biggest finance companies.
Standard Sport can reveal a group of wealthy American businessmen, based in California, want to meet chairman Daniel Levy in New York.
The group has secured backing from a major global private equity investor. The American consortium would favour keeping Levy in position if a takeover were successful. Owner Joe Lewis values Spurs at $1billion (£628m) and even though he may accept around £502m it is believed the Americans are some way off.
This is not the first time Spurs have been linked to a US takeover. In September, investment firm Cain Hoy expressed an interest in buying the club before withdrawing.
There is little doubt any prospective bidders face a long haul. Not only will they have to fight off interest from other potential purchasers, they will also have to find a way through the increasingly-complicated ground redevelopment project Spurs are committed to. While the club would welcome a new owner willing to help fund the £400m project, it is not quite as simple as that.
Integral to the new ground development is an entire regeneration of the surrounding area — with a complete overhaul of the local infrastructure, housing and community facilities.
That regeneration is of particular interest to Mayor Boris Johnson, who is keeping a close eye on prospective new owners to understand their level of dedication to that wider project.
Any new owner would have to work side by side with the redevelopment proposals.
Contrary to popular belief, Spurs have not yet fully cleared all the planning hurdles in front of building a new ground. A local metalwork company is still refusing to budge from its premises right in the middle of the club’s new site and is appealing a compulsory purchase order in the High Court. It remains unclear whether there will be further planning complications.
An insider said: “The Americans want to keep Mr Levy on board, which appeals enormously. It’s hard to ignore such prestigious backers — but we still have to see what they are prepared to offer.”
However, Spurs are adamant they have received no contact about a possible takeover approach.
http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/tottenham-face-fresh-takeover-bid-as-wealthy-usa-consortium-seeks-talks-with-daniel-levy-9856135.html
Tottenham are facing a new takeover bid — this time from another American consortium backed by one of the world’s biggest finance companies.
Standard Sport can reveal a group of wealthy American businessmen, based in California, want to meet chairman Daniel Levy in New York.
The group has secured backing from a major global private equity investor. The American consortium would favour keeping Levy in position if a takeover were successful. Owner Joe Lewis values Spurs at $1billion (£628m) and even though he may accept around £502m it is believed the Americans are some way off.
This is not the first time Spurs have been linked to a US takeover. In September, investment firm Cain Hoy expressed an interest in buying the club before withdrawing.
There is little doubt any prospective bidders face a long haul. Not only will they have to fight off interest from other potential purchasers, they will also have to find a way through the increasingly-complicated ground redevelopment project Spurs are committed to. While the club would welcome a new owner willing to help fund the £400m project, it is not quite as simple as that.
Integral to the new ground development is an entire regeneration of the surrounding area — with a complete overhaul of the local infrastructure, housing and community facilities.
That regeneration is of particular interest to Mayor Boris Johnson, who is keeping a close eye on prospective new owners to understand their level of dedication to that wider project.
Any new owner would have to work side by side with the redevelopment proposals.
Contrary to popular belief, Spurs have not yet fully cleared all the planning hurdles in front of building a new ground. A local metalwork company is still refusing to budge from its premises right in the middle of the club’s new site and is appealing a compulsory purchase order in the High Court. It remains unclear whether there will be further planning complications.
An insider said: “The Americans want to keep Mr Levy on board, which appeals enormously. It’s hard to ignore such prestigious backers — but we still have to see what they are prepared to offer.”
However, Spurs are adamant they have received no contact about a possible takeover approach.
http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/tottenham-face-fresh-takeover-bid-as-wealthy-usa-consortium-seeks-talks-with-daniel-levy-9856135.html
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
I think the club and investors like Cain Hoy aren't looking at a full buyout. More a significant stake in the club, probably a deal where the club sells a certain %, that investment going to cover the Stadium costs.
Best option for both, not surprised our investment options re coming from US, combination of the payback for our marketing there as well as our Jewish links more likely to be welcomed there vs. with Arab investors.
I think the club and investors like Cain Hoy aren't looking at a full buyout. More a significant stake in the club, probably a deal where the club sells a certain %, that investment going to cover the Stadium costs.
Best option for both, not surprised our investment options re coming from US, combination of the payback for our marketing there as well as our Jewish links more likely to be welcomed there vs. with Arab investors.
milo
Jack L. Jones
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
I think that they are looking to make the most money that they can. I don't think that they care whether that comes from a stake or majority ownership.
I think that they are looking to make the most money that they can. I don't think that they care whether that comes from a stake or majority ownership.
