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Cardiff - Post match discussion thread

Allow me to start.

Yes, nice to win BUT that was awful. Our inability to foster a tactical plan today, let alone a pattern of play, was crushing to me. The only moment we played with pace and intelligence, we scored.

What will it take? Does Sherwood know he's a dead man walking, and as such is he just trying to steward us through to something great by the end of the season? Or does he genuinely not have a clear idea how he wants us to play?

Thoughts?

I am genuinely confused by Sherwood. Initially, I thought he was a breath of fresh air who liberated our players to play with freedom and pace and believed in attacking and getting players in the box. Most recently, he seems to have us playing much like we did earlier in the season, when good chances and goals were few and far between.

I don't understand why he changed it? Anyone?
 
Our problem is pretty simple. Our players ALWAYS receive the ball in a standing position. No movement into space, nothing. That is why we are so slooooowww. Very average footballing intelligence.

Agree with this. Our running off the ball is virtually non-existent.
 
Spent most of the game in an already congested middle instead of sticking on the touchline, he put in a great defensive shift though

Lennon is a major part of our problems IMO. He doesn't create space for himself, he doesn't run off the ball or make himself available out wide and he can't pass, cross or shoot. Yes he works hard defensively, but doesn't create anything. There is a reason he never takes dead balls for us - he can't kick a football properly. The number of times he scuffs shots or can't lay off a simple cross has been mind boggling. His stats over many seasons bear this out. We need to upgrade him badly.
 
I am genuinely confused by Sherwood. Initially, I thought he was a breath of fresh air who liberated our players to play with freedom and pace and believed in attacking and getting players in the box. Most recently, he seems to have us playing much like we did earlier in the season, when good chances and goals were few and far between.

I don't understand why he changed it? Anyone?

I think it's quite simple. Sherwood is factually a novice manager learning his trade in one of the biggest jobs in the league.

At the beginning it was easy to just play gung-ho as that in itself was refreshing and perhaps many of the players needed it to at least get onside and believe.

That has led to a very good points haul. However, gameplay-wise just going 'up and at em' has meant there has often been a scuttergun pattern (or no pattern). I think he knows that our approach has to evolve and become more 'smart' otherwise our results will start to go downhill rapidly: we will be playing against some very smart teams over the next month who if we play like we have been in most games since the turn of the year (start games very slowly, give away a fair few chances in the first half) we will get a few pastings.


I believe he is trying to make us more solid (not that we are necessarily succeeding) and i also think the way in the press and amongst many Spurs fans he has been called 'clueless' (sometimes me included) has made him defensive and itching to show he does 'know a thing or two.'

Time will tell, but at the end of the day this is someone in their first senior coaching/managerial role and at a MUCH MUCH higher lever than most would get with his experience. Perhaps he's simply showing this level of (in)experience: you have to bear in mind that the two easiest approaches to take from a strategy point of view are ultra-attacking and ultra-defensive. The best and most experienced coaches know how to strike the right balances between the two for most of their games...
 
I don't disagree with a lot of that. However, our "up and at em" and "gung ho" scatter gun approach as you describe it, was working. It was delivering results, goals and points. So why change it? Particularly against the lesser teams. I agree a more cautious approach may be necessary against our top four rivals, especially away from home, as by and large they have better players and it would not be wise to go toe to toe with them.

For me, Sherwood started with a simplicity of approach which suited our players. He then seemed to opt to change it to somehow "prove" that he was a sophisticated, tactically astute coach. The performances and results suffered. I think he should go back to basics. Get passers in the team such as Eriksen and Bentelab. Play a single holding midfielder, remove passengers such as Invisiblinho, play with genuine width, move the ball faster and forward not sideways or backwards, start games at a higher tempo and try and go for goals rather than rest on our laurels.

This approach would distinguish him as his own man and , if it works as it was doing in the early days, bring us both success and entertainment at the same time. Balance of course is important, but we don't have that at the moment.
 
If we could go back in time and play yesterday's game again (with the same players available) what should we change? What team should Sherwood have put out?
 
If we could go back in time and play yesterday's game again (with the same players available) what should we change? What team should Sherwood have put out?

Given the injuries we know about,

Lloris

Kaboul
Dawson
Verts

Sandro

Townsend
Bentelab
Sig
Chadli

Ade
Solly

Gets rid of our weaknesses. Three centre backs solidify the middle with protection from a genuine DM. Wingbacks to provide natural width and keep Cardiff penned back. Sig to float in the no 10 role and provide the bullets. No Invisiblinho, Dembele or Lennon clogging up the middle but very useful impact subs if necessary against tiring legs.

Easy with hindsight. ( although I also suggested this formation before the game!).
 
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Townsend as a wing back? much prefer Lennon in that role even though he looking the shadow of his former self.
 
If we could go back in time and play yesterday's game again (with the same players available) what should we change? What team should Sherwood have put out?

Drop Townsend - doesn't matter how talented he is if the ball ends up in row z/straight at the keeper every time.

3 in midfield - any 3, they're all better than anything Cardiff have. Keep the ball, work on horizontal movement and trying to stretch them, keep control of the match, avoid all this "we attack/you attack" nonsense. It can be a great leveller if we're the underdog, but it's beyond stupid when we're by far the better team. Be more intelligent in possession - don't go flat out for 30 mins and then run out of steam handing all the momentum to the opposition.
 
Didnt get the chance to post last night, traffic back home on the M1 was an absolute nightmare, didnt get home until 11.30pm (thanks Sky/FA) and was in no mood to post

Thankful for the win, obviously.

Quite a decent first half and an another day Dawson could have even had a hat-trick, but the 2nd half deary deary me, one word...pants
On hearing the team news driving down Mollison Avenue we knew it was going to be a struggle, but didnt envisage it being that bad.

Based on who we have in the squad, this must be the most frustrating Spurs team I have watched for donkey years, the 90s were bad, but we had poorer players.

It is incredible we are still 5th, we certainly have to be the worst team to ever hold that position in the league. I fear the worst for the matches on the 8th,16th and 30th March on that showing. We badly need Eriksen fit again
 
I don't get it, I really don't think we were THAT bad? Is it just me?

I don't think we were either. It was frustrating not to get another goal in the second half and put the game to bed but I thought that we did alright with a team selection that must be some way away from Sherwood's first choice and with a couple of changes that must've been made quite late in the day.
 
I think it's quite simple. Sherwood is factually a novice manager learning his trade in one of the biggest jobs in the league.

At the beginning it was easy to just play gung-ho as that in itself was refreshing and perhaps many of the players needed it to at least get onside and believe.

That has led to a very good points haul. However, gameplay-wise just going 'up and at em' has meant there has often been a scuttergun pattern (or no pattern). I think he knows that our approach has to evolve and become more 'smart' otherwise our results will start to go downhill rapidly: we will be playing against some very smart teams over the next month who if we play like we have been in most games since the turn of the year (start games very slowly, give away a fair few chances in the first half) we will get a few pastings.


I believe he is trying to make us more solid (not that we are necessarily succeeding) and i also think the way in the press and amongst many Spurs fans he has been called 'clueless' (sometimes me included) has made him defensive and itching to show he does 'know a thing or two.'

Time will tell, but at the end of the day this is someone in their first senior coaching/managerial role and at a MUCH MUCH higher lever than most would get with his experience. Perhaps he's simply showing this level of (in)experience: you have to bear in mind that the two easiest approaches to take from a strategy point of view are ultra-attacking and ultra-defensive. The best and most experienced coaches know how to strike the right balances between the two for most of their games...

Great post mate.
 
I don't get it, I really don't think we were THAT bad? Is it just me?

There are a lot of drama queens on here Diego. Tbf to Tim Cardiff played an incredibly defensive formation I don't recall ever seeing before. That said I am worried about the upcoming games vs Chelsea, goons an liver scum, but I am sure I would have been under the previous manager. I think that it is highly unlikely we will finish in top 4 this season. But then I thought that would have been difficult at the star of season as the 4 above us have at least 1 world class player which gives them the edge over us.
 
We weren't getting played off the pitch, but we were in a pretty even match. With Cardiff.

I think its a lack of structure that is getting to people at the moment. Since Tim took over he made it more basic for the players i think, he switched to a 4-4-2 to open up the opposition and get us amongst the goals. that worked to a degree, but against certain teams playing 2 up front meant we got over run in midfield. Since then TS has tried a 4-2-3-1 and a 4-3-3 and has now gone back to a 4-4-2. In all these games we have either had to change things up at half time or change players.

The only game i really feel we played a whole good match was against Saudi Sportswashing Machine and even then they had some chances. I feel a bit of Harry about TS in that he just lets the players go out and do thier stuff to a very large degree. He has some tactical nouse, and does emply things for different games. You can feel this from what he says in his post match talks. But in general overal play the players are very static, its not been drilled into them to pass and move and stay on the move and to keep passes quicker and with more zip.

There seems to be no real way the players dove tail off each other. Like mini partnerships all over the field. MOTD2 highlighted this a lot with the Ade Soldado combo from yesterdays games. And so since TS has taken over, yes we are scoring more goals but the overall pattern of play can still be very slow, lethargic and turgid to watch in large chunks of the game. That in itself is worrying since TS has now had a fair amount of time to implement his changes.
 
Ive seen some **** at WHL in my time, but that was poor

If you compared winning a game with pulling a bird, that win was like pulling a big fat bird at the burger van at 5am just after she has **** herself, horrid

Are you some sort of expert on this sort of thing?
 
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