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BMJ

Jol had his shortcomings and I wanted him to be fired. However, in hindsight it was a bad decision. That's what appals me most about the Redknapp haters. Thankfully, Levy has learnt a lot more from the Ramos debacle than many of our fans have.
 
noddy1991 said:
he just couldn't win the big games. led all 5 home games against arsenal under him and didn't win one of them.

think the game that made the board's mind up that he had to go was that 3-3 draw at chelsea in the cup. another game we couldn't close out.

now we beat arsenal, chelsea and liverpool regularly. admittedly they're all weaker than 5 years ago.
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The Chelsea 3-3 Cup game was the game that also made up my mind that Jol wasn't a good enough manager for us. We were murdering them at 3-1 and it was only a matter of time before we scored another goal (or probably more). Chelsea gambled and started throwing on more attacking players and instead of leaving it as it was Jol reacted by taking off our most dangerous attackers and putting on more defenders. I was appalled when at the game, more so than I have ever been with any change made by Harry.

I like Martin Jol. He seems a nice bloke and he has done a good job at Fulham (I thought they played very good posession football) but IMO he isn't nearly as good a manager as Harry is.
 
Not the greatest manager in the world, but a man I will always like and admire.

Poundland have his book with Harry Harris for ?ú1 (surprisingly) at the moment - anyone know if it is worth a read?
 
I enjoyed the BMJ love-in and thought that the applause and chants were the least that the big man deserved, considering the success he achieved with us, the fun we had with him in charge, the poor manner in which our club disposed of him, and the dignified manner in which he has spoken about us since. He should always be given a warm welcome at the Lane.
 
nw7 yid said:
I enjoyed the BMJ love-in and thought that the applause and chants were the least that the big man deserved, considering the success he achieved with us, the fun we had with him in charge, the poor manner in which our club disposed of him, and the dignified manner in which he has spoken about us since. He should always be given a warm welcome at the Lane.
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Before the game, absolutely. During the game no. He's there trying to beat us. Bugger him.
 
I think he took us as far as he could. But he didn't deserve to get the sack, and the way it was handled made it even more of a disgrace.

People slate Redknapp for his tactics on occasions and rightly so, but under Jol we regularly took the lead against the scum and then decided to sit back which invited them to come at us and you always knew what would happen next!
 
Finney Is Back said:
The Chelsea 3-3 Cup game was the game that also made up my mind that Jol wasn't a good enough manager for us. We were murdering them at 3-1 and it was only a matter of time before we scored another goal (or probably more). Chelsea gambled and started throwing on more attacking players and instead of leaving it as it was Jol reacted by taking off our most dangerous attackers and putting on more defenders. I was appalled when at the game, more so than I have ever been with any change made by Harry.

I like Martin Jol. He seems a nice bloke and he has done a good job at Fulham (I thought they played very good posession football) but IMO he isn't nearly as good a manager as Harry is.
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The 5-2 game against arsenal was even more embarrasing. Jol was trying to shore us up.
 
punk_is_back` said:
The 5-2 game against arsenal was even more embarrasing. Jol was trying to shore us up.
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Yeah this criticism of Jol has always bugged me, but it just goes to show any decision any manager takes will get criticised as if it is 100%, completely wrong. As if bringing on more defenders to cope with more attackers, and hoping to protect a 2 goal lead, is somehow a stupid decision. It's the players fault if they concede two. They were given support from the manager, and lose concentration twice. Chelsea have shown against Barca that if you defend and defend well you can keep out the best team.

So going defensive is bad. But then Redknapp gets criticised for 'stupidly leaving us too open' against Chelsea in the semi final this season. Yawn.
 
Finney Is Back said:
The Chelsea 3-3 Cup game was the game that also made up my mind that Jol wasn't a good enough manager for us. We were murdering them at 3-1 and it was only a matter of time before we scored another goal (or probably more). Chelsea gambled and started throwing on more attacking players and instead of leaving it as it was Jol reacted by taking off our most dangerous attackers and putting on more defenders. I was appalled when at the game, more so than I have ever been with any change made by Harry.

I like Martin Jol. He seems a nice bloke and he has done a good job at Fulham (I thought they played very good posession football) but IMO he isn't nearly as good a manager as Harry is.
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Yep, pretty much agree with this. Although I backed him up right up until the last, when it was then obvious he had to go. I don't think we would have gone down but it would have been a struggle into lower midtable at very best. And that wasn't good enough with the squad available. It is incredible really, I can't think of many managers who've left their club in the bottom 3 mid-season but still been so highly thought of, relatively speaking. I do wonder if the reaction would have been the same had we not been caught out sounding out Ramos? I suspect even then, mainly yes. He had built up a lot of goodwill because he was one of the first decent competent football people involved in the club since Venables. However, this continues to be cofused with being a particularly talented standalone manager. Which doesn't follow at all. His achievements were nothing special, in that context.
 
I really enjoyed the opportunity to sing I love Martin Jol again. Took me back, great memories of a feel good time. No more, no less. Some grumpy feckers on here!
 
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I would like to think that after examples like the Chelsea 3-3 draw, BMJ learnt as much about himself as we did and is a better manager for it.

I don't get this idea that you recruit young managers and when they make rookie mistakes they're considered not good enough.
 
Harry_Perkins said:
Yep, pretty much agree with this. Although I backed him up right up until the last, when it was then obvious he had to go. I don't think we would have gone down but it would have been a struggle into lower midtable at very best. And that wasn't good enough with the squad available. It is incredible really, I can't think of many managers who've left their club in the bottom 3 mid-season but still been so highly thought of, relatively speaking. I do wonder if the reaction would have been the same had we not been caught out sounding out Ramos? I suspect even then, mainly yes. He had built up a lot of goodwill because he was one of the first decent competent football people involved in the club since Venables. However, this continues to be cofused with being a particularly talented standalone manager. Which doesn't follow at all. His achievements were nothing special, in that context.
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not that far off what Redknapp has achieved, and Jol had to contend with far better Arse, Chelsea, Man U and Liverpool teams
 
Harry_Perkins said:
Yep, pretty much agree with this. Although I backed him up right up until the last, when it was then obvious he had to go. I don't think we would have gone down but it would have been a struggle into lower midtable at very best. And that wasn't good enough with the squad available. It is incredible really, I can't think of many managers who've left their club in the bottom 3 mid-season but still been so highly thought of, relatively speaking. I do wonder if the reaction would have been the same had we not been caught out sounding out Ramos? I suspect even then, mainly yes. He had built up a lot of goodwill because he was one of the first decent competent football people involved in the club since Venables. However, this continues to be cofused with being a particularly talented standalone manager. Which doesn't follow at all. His achievements were nothing special, in that context.
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Jol was clearly undermined from about the 2nd game in of the season with the links to Ramos, you surely don't think the results would have been the same had those rumors not been about?
 
noddy1991 said:
he just couldn't win the big games. led all 5 home games against arsenal under him and didn't win one of them.

think the game that made the board's mind up that he had to go was that 3-3 draw at chelsea in the cup. another game we couldn't close out.

now we beat arsenal, chelsea and liverpool regularly. admittedly they're all weaker than 5 years ago.
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Agreed with this.

We also play much better football under Harry. There was far too much hoofball back in BMJ's day - which worked fine with a master like Kanoute or Berbatov up front, turning water into wine, but which was effectively Stoke with quality at times.

I love BMJ and will always give him the warmest of receptions when he brings an opposing team to the Lane. But I wouldn't want him back as our manager.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
Jol was clearly undermined from about the 2nd game in of the season with the links to Ramos, you surely don't think the results would have been the same had those rumors not been about?
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Yes, I think they would have been. We lost the first two games very poorly against mediocre opposition. I don't think he lost the players and I think he was desperate to prove Levy and the board wrong. But it wasn't to be. We hammered Derby after the Ramos story broke. We also put in a decent performance up at Liverpool. Probably the only decent result he had in that dire run. It was said it was 'just Derby' but then it was just Everton, Sunderland, Saudi Sportswashing Machine etc and all the other poor results that put us in the bottom 3. The signs had been there from the season before too when we also started poorly and picked up 4 points in the first 6 games. Again, don't think he would have got us relegated but even if he repeated the feat from the previous year and we had a late rally, it would be for a 9th-12th finish at best. I think more like 12th-15th as there was nothing to suggest it was getting any better by the time he went. Quite the opposite. Fact is, he rode his luck for most of 06/07 and it required a late rally to avoid midtable. In 07/08 it was looking like mid-table at best. That is a very sharp decline from narrowly missing out on 4th. Sometimes the most unpopular decisions are the best ones and that one was on the money and Redknapp showed it by getting so much extra from players that had been festering under Jol.
 
Leaving results and footy aside, I have to say, as a bloke Martin Jol is probably my fave Spurs manager.

I've just had a look on Youtube for it, but I can't find it, but there's a great vid of him at a Spurs fan's forum where he's talking about Santini, and taking over, and it's brilliant.

I'll have a hunt about in case anyone hasn't seen it...
 
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