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Black Lives Matter

scaramanga said:
I've never had issue with police smashing the fudge out of rioters - neither here nor in the US. Had they gone in harder on the miners in the 80s this country would be a significantly better one IMO.
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Rioting has been and is an effective form of rebellion against oppression. Specifically for those who value people over commodities and are directly affected by systems of oppression and exploitation. Rioting tends to occur after other forms of protest or discourse have not been heard.

I'll gently try to bring this back to the conversation at hand rather than have you take me into wiziwig territory of listing all other prejudice's. Have you watched any of the ample footage of police brutality directed at protestors? Note I am specifically stating protestors.
 
AuroRaman said:
Rioting has and is an effective form of rebellion against oppression. Specifically for those who value people over commodities and are directly affected by systems of oppression and exploitation. Rioting tends to occur after other forms of protest or discourse have not been heard.

I'll gently try to bring this back to the conversation at hand rather than have you take me into wiziwig territory of listing all other prejudice's. Have you watched any of the ample footage of police brutality directed at protestors? Note I am specifically stating protestors.
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I saw a video this morning.

They were pretty indiscriminate but the protestors weren't retreating so they had to do something. I believe using the fear of being randomly picked out and beaten is a common and effective tactic used to thin crowds.
 
scaramanga said:
I'm not condoning his behaviour at all.

I'm pointing out that there's a world of difference between restraining someone in the wrong manner with no differential effect at all and restraining someone in the wrong manner leading to their death.

The press and everyone looking for an excuse to riot have immediately assumed the latter, the evidence we (and they) have so far doesn't support that.
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Does the name Blair Peach mean anything to you or are you too young? He got his skull smashed in by an SPG club during an Anti Nazi League march I was on in 1979 (as a youth with my folks) and subsequently died. The coroner made mention of how Peach's skull was "unusually thin" and as such, it was perhaps more susceptible to serious injury from such blunt force trauma. No-one was arrested and the case buried. Have a think about that.
 
scaramanga said:
I saw a video this morning.

They were pretty indiscriminate but the protestors weren't retreating so they had to do something. I believe using the fear of being randomly picked out and beaten is a common and effective tactic used to thin crowds.
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The protestors or the agitators? The protestors I know and have seen have caused no problems at all.
 
thfcsteff said:
Does the name Blair Peach mean anything to you or are you too young? He got his skull smashed in by an SPG club during an Anti Nazi League march I was on in 1979 (as a youth with my folks) and subsequently died. The coroner made mention of how Peach's skull was "unusually thin" and as such, it was perhaps more susceptible to serious injury from such blunt force trauma. No-one was arrested and the case buried. Have a think about that.
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It does - the event even lead to a law in that name didn't it?

This case might no fit those facts though. The inference from the police is that someone with a heart condition loaded up that high would have likely died after any physical confrontation that day. That means the knee to the neck (whilst entirely wrong and a stackable offence) was not the cause of death and not murder.

As I've already said, we don't know nearly enough yet to say whether the version presented by the media is an accurate depiction or the one presented by the police that started a good 10 minutes before any released footage does.
 
scaramanga said:
I'm not condoning his behaviour at all.

I'm pointing out that there's a world of difference between restraining someone in the wrong manner with no differential effect at all and restraining someone in the wrong manner leading to their death.

The press and everyone looking for an excuse to riot have immediately assumed the latter, the evidence we (and they) have so far doesn't support that.
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The evidence available to us shows the cop with his knee on Floyd’s neck for 9 mins. At the very least, it’s not much of a leap to believe his actions contributed to Floyd’s death even if they are not the sole cause.

The police dept in Murica has an unfortunate and infamous history of brutality, especially against minorities so this is far from an isolated incident. There will always be idiots who want to indulge their urges to riot and loot and those that do belong in prison.

Have you seen the footage of police in Minneapolis arresting the CNN crew. It’s outrageous. They also have a tendency to protect their own when a policeman fudges up.

I’m so glad the police in this country don’t act as thuggishly.
 
scaramanga said:
It does - the event even lead to a law in that name didn't it?

This case might no fit those facts though. The inference from the police is that someone with a heart condition loaded up that high would have likely died after any physical confrontation that day. That means the knee to the neck (whilst entirely wrong and a stackable offence) was not the cause of death and not murder.

As I've already said, we don't know nearly enough yet to say whether the version presented by the media is an accurate depiction or the one presented by the police that started a good 10 minutes before any released footage does.
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You're speculating on many things. The facts are that policing does not include such methods, and their application in this case have caused a man's death. Which is murder. He said he could not breathe; at that point they should've been up and off him, should never have been there in the first place but there we go...they had him cuffed and on the floor across the street. You want to arrest him, have the car pull up to that point. No need to drag him up and walk him across the street (all rather complaint for a man "resisting arrest", right?)...

You call it what you want. I know what I think.
 
Jurgen the German said:
The evidence available to us shows the cop with his knee on Floyd’s neck for 9 mins. At the very least, it’s not much of a leap to believe his actions contributed to Floyd’s death even if they are not the sole cause.

The police dept in Murica has an unfortunate and infamous history of brutality, especially against minorities so this is far from an isolated incident. There will always be idiots who want to indulge their urges to riot and loot and those that do belong in prison.

Have you seen the footage of police in Minneapolis arresting the CNN crew. It’s outrageous. They also have a tendency to protect their own when a policeman fudges up.

I’m so glad the police in this country don’t act as thuggishly.
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Yet no evidence (so far) of any trauma to the parts of his body required to breathe.
 
thfcsteff said:
If you think Dianne Abbott has the power to incite similar behaviour in the UK, then frankly, her powers of persuasion are being wasted. FFS. Do you really think she is doing that? Why would it be in her interest? Please.
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maybe not but I just understand why she commented how she did. She is an MP and has influence in her local area - hackney and I guess if David Lammy gets on board with her, then it could be a starting point for unrest in those two diverse boroughs.

I didn’t see the need for her to make the comment as some could use this is a call to copy America etc.
 
Remember the London riots how that escalated, that was quite frightening.
A number of the protesters probably didn’t even think twice about the ‘cause’ at the time, just went around the streets attacking property, people and grabbing a free pair of Nike from JD sports.
 
scaramanga said:
I'm not sure - I don't think there's enough information to come to that conclusion yet.

I would guess that he would probably have been fine if he'd stayed at home and had a cup of tea that day. What's unclear is whether the 10 minute struggle killed him or having his neck kneeled on. It is a hugely important distinction though.
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I'm going with the knee on his neck.
 
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