Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

[Grays_1890]

I think you are overcomplicating it. Mutually agreed, means both parties agreed to end the contract. That is all. Had there not been the furore over Contes freak out in the press conference, with most fans keen to see the back of him, he would have served out the season. I don't see the reality reflecting the narrative that he upped sticks and said, sorry guys I am done. That did not occur. The club and Conte both agreed to conclude there and then.

Na it's actually de complicating it. Mutual consent is a generic proffesional curtesy to protect those involved. Its really that simple.

But the process would have been instigated by someone to come to that conclusion and when someone says and I quote "Then this season, with the side in fourth position, I decided we should part ways with Tottenham" then is clear who that was.

That's far from complicated IMO.

 

[RunTMC]

I think the reason people thought he resigned (or instigated the ending of the contract) was because he flew off to Italy shortly after the press conference. There was a short break I think and when the non-international players returned for training Conte wasn’t there and Mason had to take it. Then after that Stellini took it.

Now this could have all already been pre-agreed but the optics didn’t look good and neither party clarified his absence. The press clearly weren’t briefed and it ended up being open season for speculation.

Also he didn’t leave us in the lurch managerless, he left us with Stellini.

Actually on second thoughts…

 

[billyiddo]

I keep saying the opposite, he didn’t break his contract. Never mind.

it is too boring to discuss. Essentially, some wanted Conte sacked such as @billyiddo When the results got worse, not better, without Conte, folkes were like ‘he prob walked anyway’ and then used this quote to absolve any responsibility that fans may have had clambering for his head.

Sorry what responsibility do fans have for expressing an opinion exactly? What a strange implication.

I don't know why you keep singling me out on this topic as i was never even calling for him to be sacked anyway but the long and short of it was that you kept refering to the club making a mistake in sacking him, then tagging me to try and win internet points any time we were losing after that - i told you it didn't look like he was sacked given the circumstances as i saw them, the reports that came out from Spurs journos and the mutual consent wording of the club statement - Conte has literally confirmed he wasn't sacked as you were so adamant was the case so you don't have a leg to stand on here

 

[SpurMeUp]

Sorry what responsibility do fans have for expressing an opinion exactly? What a strange implication.

I don't know why you keep singling me out on this topic as i was never even calling for him to be sacked anyway but the long and short of it was that you kept refering to the club making a mistake in sacking him, then tagging me to try and win internet points any time we were losing after that - i told you it didn't look like he was sacked given the circumstances as i saw them, the reports that came out from Spurs journos and the mutual consent wording of the club statement - Conte has literally confirmed he wasn't sacked as you were so adamant was the case so you don't have a leg to stand on here

You posted the quote saying that it was now 100% certain, Conte walked out. That is why I was tagging you. And that when we discussed previously you were pro-Conte departing. And that was a part of the decision to mutually terminate - that fans wanted him gone. Rational fans too, not just the usual whinge-fest suspects. The club are aware of fans sentiments, and gage fan opinion. I think you were saying you wanted Conte gone, but wanted a replacement. So Conte sacked and Poch appointed for example. All water under the bridge but it wasn't a success. The club leadership need to have a clear strategic vision and stick to it. Then fans would ultimately be happier too.

I think the club is in a mess becuase they are trying to placate the fan-base. So "give me a trophy" > Instead of building a strategic plan to deliver success with this newstadium/model over a 5-10 year period, Levy looked for an impatient solution and hired two manager with many trophies to their name. And you can see the logic. We needed to keep Kane and assert ourselves as a club with intent. But it wasn't the best strategy, we can conclude that now. Many had their reservations at the time too. When the Conte term was coming to an end, the fan vitriol (much of it fair) built and built. Conte freaked out (standard Conte when dropping points), and the club agreed to terminate his contract early. It wasn't the best strategic decision, as porting in another manager with 10 games or whatever to go is unrealistic. It would have been better to let Conte see out the season, and then decide whether to move on (most likely) or keep buiilding and following his direction and give him another year.

 

[Grays_1890]

 

[Glenda's Legs]

You posted the quote saying that it was now 100% certain, Conte walked out. That is why I was tagging you. And that when we discussed previously you were pro-Conte departing. And that was a part of the decision to mutually terminate - that fans wanted him gone. Rational fans too, not just the usual whinge-fest suspects. The club are aware of fans sentiments, and gage fan opinion. I think you were saying you wanted Conte gone, but wanted a replacement. So Conte sacked and Poch appointed for example. All water under the bridge but it wasn't a success. The club leadership need to have a clear strategic vision and stick to it. Then fans would ultimately be happier too.

I think the club is in a mess becuase they are trying to placate the fan-base. So "give me a trophy" > Instead of building a strategic plan to deliver success with this newstadium/model over a 5-10 year period, Levy looked for an impatient solution and hired two manager with many trophies to their name. And you can see the logic. We needed to keep Kane and assert ourselves as a club with intent. But it wasn't the best strategy, we can conclude that now. Many had their reservations at the time too. When the Conte term was coming to an end, the fan vitriol (much of it fair) built and built. Conte freaked out (standard Conte when dropping points), and the club agreed to terminate his contract early. It wasn't the best strategic decision, as porting in another manager with 10 games or whatever to go is unrealistic. It would have been better to let Conte see out the season, and then decide whether to move on (most likely) or keep buiilding and following his direction and give him another year.

But how could we have "let him" see out the season, when he has confirmed that it was he who "wanted to part ways" with the club? Sure, we could have refused to let him part ways and make him see out the last few months of his contract, but forcing him to stay would not have been a good solution.

 

[SpurMeUp]

But how could we have "let him" see out the season, when he has confirmed that it was he who "wanted to part ways" with the club? Sure, we could have refused to let him part ways and make him see out the last few months of his contract, but forcing him to stay would not have been a good solution.

That is the point the quote is just posturing on his part. Do you really believe Conte would have not returned to work, breaching his contract, and leaving us without a manager? After he has just blown up at the side dropping 2 points, he actually just wanted to walk? Sure, given the option to walk with us in 4th so he could protect his ego and image, he did. But I don't believe he refused to work for us. Maybe you do.

 

[billyiddo]

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[billyiddo]

That is the point the quote is just posturing on his part. Do you really believe Conte would have not returned to work, breaching his contract, and leaving us without a manager? After he has just blown up at the side dropping 2 points, he actually just wanted to walk?

That is exactly what happened

 

[SpurMeUp]

That is exactly what happened

So it was not a mutually agreed termination of the contract in actual fact. Okay, we will agree to disagree. It is too dull to discuss futher.

 

[billyiddo]

So it was not a mutually agreed termination of the contract in actual fact. Okay, we will agree to disagree. It is too dull to discuss futher.

You can't shift the goalposts like this you were all in on it being an outright sacking and scoffed at any alternative view point.

Manager says he's not coming back - club negotiates to have his coaching team in place till the end of the season. Conte & his team agree. Mutual agreement.

 

[SpurMeUp]

You can't shift the goalposts like this you were all in on it being an outright sacking and scoffed at any alternative view point.

Manager says he's not coming back - club negotiates to have his coaching team in place till the end of the season. Conte & his team agree. Mutual agreement.

That is not true. I was saying it was mutually agreed. Others said it was Conte walking. If anyone is moving the goal posts I think it might be you.

 

[billyiddo]

That is not true. I was saying it was mutually agreed. Others said it was Conte walking. If anyone is moving the goal posts I think it might be you.

This is not the case.

 

[SpurMeUp]

This is not the case.

It is all here in black and white, just go back through the previous pages. But better to enjoy the sun. It is too stupid to worry about the technicalities of it all.

I think there is a more interesting bigger point here however, on how the club acts with or without vision, how its decisions are affected by fans, or how the club management act like fans themselves in more flippant ways, rather than creating and sticking to a strategic longer-term vision.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

That is the point the quote is just posturing on his part. Do you really believe Conte would have not returned to work, breaching his contract, and leaving us without a manager? After he has just blown up at the side dropping 2 points, he actually just wanted to walk? Sure, given the option to walk with us in 4th so he could protect his ego and image, he did. But I don't believe he refused to work for us. Maybe you do.

I don't know whether he would have just point blank refused to return but I do believe he wanted out and did not want to return. I can see this leading to a conversation taking place after his outburst and in that conversation him saying something along the lines of he didn't want to continue (as he has just told us was the case). Further discussions and then the club decide that if that is what he truly wants, then we have little choice but to let him go. So it didn't get to a stage of him breaching his contract (because there is no point in us trying to force him to stay), but it was totally him who instigated his departure.

 

[tommysvr]

That is the point the quote is just posturing on his part. Do you really believe Conte would have not returned to work, breaching his contract, and leaving us without a manager? After he has just blown up at the side dropping 2 points, he actually just wanted to walk? Sure, given the option to walk with us in 4th so he could protect his ego and image, he did. But I don't believe he refused to work for us. Maybe you do.

You’re trying very hard to ignore all the evidence of what happened.

 

[billyiddo]

It is all here in black and white, just go back through the previous pages. But better to enjoy the sun. It is too stupid to worry about the technicalities of it all.

I think there is a more interesting bigger point here however, on how the club acts with or without vision, how its decisions are affected by fans, or how the club management act like fans themselves in more flippant ways, rather than creating and sticking to a strategic longer-term vision.

I know what you've been saying in this thread mate what I'm referring to is your regular snarky posts in match threads posted after Conte walked. For some reason you tagged me every time we had a poor result to make the point that sacking him was such a stupid decision.

 

[Grays_1890]

I don't know whether he would have just point blank refused to return but I do believe he wanted out and did not want to return. I can see this leading to a conversation taking place after his outburst and in that conversation him saying something along the lines of he didn't want to continue (as he has just told us was the case). Further discussions and then the club decide that if that is what he truly wants, then we have little choice but to let him go. So it didn't get to a stage of him breaching his contract (because there is no point in us trying to force him to stay), but it was totally him who instigated his departure.

And lets be honest here, if the club had come out and gone into detail and said "we tried hard to persuade Conte to stay but decided it would have been against what he wanted" rather than "mutual consent" then I find it hard to believe people would have believed it anyway because there was this adamant noise of When it looks like 4th is not realistic we sack people or Donna Cullen PR machine at work here

As a club we don't respond to anything, I actually think its a better move than others clubs who are more vocal about the goings on or feel like they need to defend their position. There is probably as much noise surrounding Spurs than any club in England at the moment, most of it negative, alot of it true, alot of it not so much, plenty of nastiness added for measure, even still the club and Levy who is the brunt of the noise still don't feel the need to confirm them or correct the mistruths taking a probably more realistic stance of....you won't be able to stop the noise. It works against us plenty of times and you kinda just have to accept it as par for the course, its certainly worked against us here but I also don't expect Levy to jump out now and either confirm or deny the report because as I said earlier, its a 450m business, the manager was on 12m a year, its not a childs playground and the real players at that level of many businesses don't feel the need to point score on things that occur pretty much daily.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I know what you've been saying in this thread mate what I'm referring to is your regular snarky posts in match threads posted after Conte walked. For some reason you tagged me every time we had a poor result to make the point that sacking him was such a stupid decision.

I understand. And apologies. I guess it was a motivation for you posting this latest quote too. I think when a respected poster has a position on something it does mean more. The club has its ear to the ground. And with Conte-out building, it probably did play a big part in him going. In the grand scheme of things it won't make a huge difference whether he'd have seen out the season or not. We might have got EL, highly unlikely we'd have got CL without Bentancur (and Bissouma). And maybe just maybe we'll be stronger next year for it. We certainly needed a reset. Both of fans expectations, and a more humble approach from the club too.

We've maybe struggled with our identity post new stadium. Big club? No trophies. There is cognitive dissonance there and leads to angst as fans expect more than we are delivering. I think we need to be outsiders. We need a strategic plan that recognises we are (still) fighting to arrive. We have to admit we can't afford the very best players through the team, and instead adopt a model where we punch above our weight. That means hiring the best before they are recognised. We had great success with a similar model in the past, and it was awesome to be a Spurs fan climbing up that way under Enic. Since we've lost our way. And we are much better at being the underdog who identifies talent early and looks to usurp the elite. It fits with Postecoglou's background, our own background and that of our owners.

 

[parklane1]

He lost a couple of good friends and had to have emergency surgery, plus the fact he was not handling the team the way he wanted them to be. He walked no doubt about it in my opinion and the club decided it was for the best.