Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[Kingdawson]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Only if it was a phase of the game where we were looking to control it. If we were looking to score goals, we'd get men in the box. It's that simple.

I'll gladly accept AVB is gone, but I will argue till the cows come home the misconceptions and misunderstandings of his methods.

When? sorry i don't remember many times where we got more than 3 players in the opposition box whilst attacking during general play.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Nobody is forcing you to read this thread, post in this thread or post about AVB in other threads, all of which you appear to be doing.

Just carry on with the same old conduit for divisiveness where the same old arguments get trotted out in an ever increasingly vitriolic downward spiral to absolutely noones benefit... and then continue to moan about it then.

That is all.

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Nobody is forcing you to read this thread, post in this thread or post about AVB in other threads, all of which you appear to be doing.

perhaps asking for this thread to be closed is a little full on....I include myself in that...guilty as charged!

reminding people that no good can come from wallowing in sad memories is perfectly reasonable!!!! we do need to move on...or at least try to find some common ground....a truce if you like.

There is nothing wrong with Pirate's message...in esscence he is calling for unity on this forum.....a desire to move forward.....how can we do that if we keep looking back at what might have been?

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

I'll gladly accept AVB is gone, but I will argue till the cows come home the misconceptions and misunderstandings of his methods.

but whats the point of doing this???

I liked to think that AVB had some grand plan for greatness but its all gone now!!!

what are we going to get in two/three years even if we are slugging it out in mid table........We would be top of the league if AVB was at the helm!!?????

You cannot say you 100% understand what AVB's methods were the same way we dont know about Sherwood!!!

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Andre Villas-Boas has admitted that he had "great ambitions" to win a trophy at Spurs this season and dropped a heavy hint that his next job in management will not be in England.

Villas-Boas, speaking for the first time since his dismissal as Spurs boss earlier this month, said he was looking at "repositioning" his career following his two disappointing managerial spells in England.

"I wish I could have responded to the confidence shown by the fans with a trophy," Villas-Boas told Portuguese newspaper O Jogo. "I had great ambitions to win a trophy this season."

With his reputation in England having taken a big hit, Villas-Boas looks set to be planning a return to the management on the continent. The 36-year-old was not short of offers last summer. He rejected overtures from Paris St Germain and has recently been linked with AC Milan.

In the interview he refers to his time in England in the past tense, and talks of "re-positioning" his career, suggesting that he will not be looking for a new post in the Premier League any time soon.

"This is a time of reflection for me and my staff, and for repositioning of our careers," he said. "Nevertheless, England was a great experience."

Meanwhile Spurs midfielder Lewis Holtby believes Tim Sherwood and his coaching staff must be given time to adapt.

"The (coaches) who are in, they've only had a short time. It's not that easy for them to come in and show you a different style," he said. "We're trying to adapt that as quickly as we can and I think we're positive about the coming weeks. I think we can get there quickly.

"I think they've done a really good job coming in here in a very hectic period of the season, and we just have to follow their lead and try to do everything they say."

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

I dont think TS has had any time. He was put in a difficult position with the sacking of AVB then put in as Manager ahead of a busy holiday schedule. How much can he do in that time? People on here are pathetic if they think he can imprint his philosophy or ideologies in a matter of a week or two packed full of games with, I can only imagine, little training. ****in hell.

Ok, on this point, it is very clear Sherwood needs time. It is pretty obvious that once he has had some time, things will get better as the squad will be more confident in his system and they will have altered their fitness to play his quicker tempo. Well on board with that.

But who decides that Sherwood needs time and deserves time while AVB doesn't? And who is deciding how much time that should be? People are more than willing to say 'Give Sherwood time' but seemingly not willing to give AVB the same courtesy.

And the argument seems to be 'We've already given him a year'. And within that year we got record points. Why doesn't he get time to assimilate all these signings? Why does Sherwood get that time? I think Sherwood should, but when anyone with an opinion worth listening to is saying 'signing 7 new foreigners is a bad idea, don't do it' or 'signing foreign players usually means they take 6 months to get up to speed', why do we not give AVB that time? Saudi Sportswashing Machine are reaping the rewards of building a big squad last January, but they were all foreigners and they finished 16th, now they look like outside CL challengers again.

Then the argument seems to be, 'but the football was turgid'. I would argue that aside from Hull at home, and the 3 hammerings, the football wasn't turgid. We were inconsistent, sure, but we were still in touch with our objectives for the season. And considering the expected inconsistency in the first 6 months, it was pretty good going IMO.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

When? sorry i don't remember many times where we got more than 3 players in the opposition box whilst attacking during general play.

We have to agree to disagree then. But I saw it in most games when we were needing a goal, either last season or this, that we'd get men in the box. When we were looking to control the game, the focus was on providing easier passing options rather than riskier options in the box. But when we were properly going for goal, we got men there. I could go through every game this season and last and give you examples of it, but I just don't have the time.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

but whats the point of doing this???

I liked to think that AVB had some grand plan for greatness but its all gone now!!!

what are we going to get in two/three years even if we are slugging it out in mid table........We would be top of the league if AVB was at the helm!!?????

You cannot say you 100% understand what AVB's methods were the same way we dont know about Sherwood!!!

The point is...I don't know what the point is. But it's fun to talk about football, and I think as Milo said above, no manager is 100% good or 100% bad. I think it's important that we try and learn something from each of them in order to further our understanding and that's what I've always tried to do with every manager we've had. I just think it's a shame to see a guy that obviously did work hard, and obviously did have some previous success, and obviously did have some interesting methods and ideas be reduced to 'he was a fraud/charlatan and his sacking proves it' just because our board couldn't find it within them to back him when he needed it. It doesn't prove anything, but people are using the fact that our board took a certain decision to vindicate their own opinions of the man, which never really changed from the moment he was hired. He is much more than a guy that people are holding up as a managerial genius. I never did that, I just tried to discuss his methods factually and I would like to keep doing that, not just with AVB but with his successors and predecessors too, rather than mud-slinging and name calling for men that are working hard to make this club something special.

 

[indianspur]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

If the only impediment to us playing attacking football was AVB's instructions then it should be instant.

its the way AVB has been training them since the start of the season that has led the team to play how they have been. Sherwood surely deserves at least 2 or 3 months to put his own ideas across

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Andre Villas-Boas has admitted that he had "great ambitions" to win a trophy at Spurs this season and dropped a heavy hint that his next job in management will not be in England.

Villas-Boas, speaking for the first time since his dismissal as Spurs boss earlier this month, said he was looking at "repositioning" his career following his two disappointing managerial spells in England.

"I wish I could have responded to the confidence shown by the fans with a trophy," Villas-Boas told Portuguese newspaper O Jogo. "I had great ambitions to win a trophy this season."

With his reputation in England having taken a big hit, Villas-Boas looks set to be planning a return to the management on the continent. The 36-year-old was not short of offers last summer. He rejected overtures from Paris St Germain and has recently been linked with AC Milan.

In the interview he refers to his time in England in the past tense, and talks of "re-positioning" his career, suggesting that he will not be looking for a new post in the Premier League any time soon.

"This is a time of reflection for me and my staff, and for repositioning of our careers," he said. "Nevertheless, England was a great experience."

Meanwhile Spurs midfielder Lewis Holtby believes Tim Sherwood and his coaching staff must be given time to adapt.

"The (coaches) who are in, they've only had a short time. It's not that easy for them to come in and show you a different style," he said. "We're trying to adapt that as quickly as we can and I think we're positive about the coming weeks. I think we can get there quickly.

"I think they've done a really good job coming in here in a very hectic period of the season, and we just have to follow their lead and try to do everything they say."

It's really frustrating that we are effectively giving ourselves a massive chance of dropping points while the players need to adapt, increasing the chances that this season is a write off.

I agree with Scara on one of the previous pages - if Sherwood's appointment was to 'fix' the problems AVB was giving us, then he should be doing it right away. If he needs time, we may as well have given it to the incumbent, as I said above.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

its the way AVB has been training them since the start of the season that has led the team to play how they have been. Sherwood surely deserves at least 2 or 3 months to put his own ideas across

Maybe AVB deserved the generally accepted 6 months of settling in time for most foreign players at the very least, in order to properly get his ideas across to a whole new group of people while they are learning a new culture, language and style of football?

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

The point is...I don't know what the point is. But it's fun to talk about football, and I think as Milo said above, no manager is 100% good or 100% bad. I think it's important that we try and learn something from each of them in order to further our understanding and that's what I've always tried to do with every manager we've had. I just think it's a shame to see a guy that obviously did work hard, and obviously did have some previous success, and obviously did have some interesting methods and ideas be reduced to 'he was a fraud/charlatan and his sacking proves it' just because our board couldn't find it within them to back him when he needed it. It doesn't prove anything, but people are using the fact that our board took a certain decision to vindicate their own opinions of the man, which never really changed from the moment he was hired. He is much more than a guy that people are holding up as a managerial genius. I never did that, I just tried to discuss his methods factually and I would like to keep doing that, not just with AVB but with his successors and predecessors too, rather than mud-slinging and name calling for men that are working hard to make this club something special.

No problem dude.....and dont get me wrong I love your tactical insights and will look forward to seeing how you judge Timmy's tactics.....

Guess we are all different...I am hurt at the whole AVB saga....think its a shame..... I would rather pretend he never existed and move on....

buggers like you ensure that the wounds can never heal

 

[Jordinho]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

It's really frustrating that we are effectively giving ourselves a massive chance of dropping points while the players need to adapt, increasing the chances that this season is a write off.

I agree with Scara on one of the previous pages - if Sherwood's appointment was to 'fix' the problems AVB was giving us, then he should be doing it right away. If he needs time, we may as well have given it to the incumbent, as I said above.

I wouldn't have minded as much if he was just trying to fix things, as in making minor adjustments on what was already in place, instead of ripping everything up and starting over for what appears to be no other reason than simply doing things differently.

 

[indianspur]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Maybe AVB deserved the generally accepted 6 months of settling in time for most foreign players at the very least, in order to properly get his ideas across to a whole new group of people while they are learning a new culture, language and style of football?

but when he played a side containing 9 or 10 players that played for us last season we still played poorly without any attacking threat or cohesion

and before you mention Bale, it was the same last season with him in the side. Honestly, i can remember only one game, and that was only the first half too, where i genuinely watched the team and was amazed at the good football we played, and that was the first half against Inter at home

It all depends on what you enjoy most, the team winning 1 or 2 nill despite playing average football, or a team that maybe takes more risks, is more pleasing on the eye to watch

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

I wouldn't have minded as much if he was just trying to fix things, as in making minor adjustments on what was already in place, instead of ripping everything up and starting over for what appears to be no other reason than simply doing things differently.

Indeed...and if football was such a simple game being overcomplicated by a fraud/charlatan, why does it take time to adjust to these new tactics and systems? Maybe TS is overcomplicating it with his tactics? And again, if he does need time, why did the previous coach not deserve time himself? And who decides that the length of time he was given was enough while the length of time the current guy has gotten isn't enough?*

*playing devils advocate here in a way, not necessarily my opinion that TS is overcomplicating with tactics etc.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

but when he played a side containing 9 or 10 players that played for us last season we still played poorly without any attacking threat or cohesion

and before you mention Bale, it was the same last season with him in the side. Honestly, i can remember only one game, and that was only the first half too, where i genuinely watched the team and was amazed at the good football we played, and that was the first half against Inter at home

It all depends on what you enjoy most, the team winning 1 or 2 nill despite playing average football, or a team that maybe takes more risks, is more pleasing on the eye to watch

Can you please name me these games where we played without ANY attacking threat or cohesion?

I will give you Hull at home (a lot like Wigan at home last year, awful), plus the 3 hammerings (which did contain lots of either new players/injuries/players being forced to play out of position). And I would say the hammerings are a result of the system simply not clicking on the day at all, meaning it ended up really badly. So to me it stands to reason as the players got more comfortable with the system, those instances of hammerings would reduce. I don't think it was bad tactics or bad players, because those tactics and players also got us points in a good number of games this season.

Can you give me any more? It seems like the 'turgid football' myth has taken on a life of it's own. It isn't necessarily true.

 

[indianspur]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

It's really frustrating that we are effectively giving ourselves a massive chance of dropping points while the players need to adapt, increasing the chances that this season is a write off.

I agree with Scara on one of the previous pages - if Sherwood's appointment was to 'fix' the problems AVB was giving us, then he should be doing it right away. If he needs time, we may as well have given it to the incumbent, as I said above.

wait, why would giving AVB more time have solved anything in terms of scoring goals and the players playing with more freedom? Maybe he wasnt bothered about such things. Maybe he was very happy with controlling possession for 70% of the game, having pot shots from outside the area, and waiting for 1 or 2 chances for the players to score a goal.

Sherwood cannot fix this right away. Firstly he doesnt have a full squad to choose from, and the games are coming thick and fast so the coaches dont have much time to implement changes on the training field. 10 days is way too short

 

[Pirate55]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Ok, on this point, it is very clear Sherwood needs time. It is pretty obvious that once he has had some time, things will get better as the squad will be more confident in his system and they will have altered their fitness to play his quicker tempo. Well on board with that.

But who decides that Sherwood needs time and deserves time while AVB doesn't? And who is deciding how much time that should be? People are more than willing to say 'Give Sherwood time' but seemingly not willing to give AVB the same courtesy.

And the argument seems to be 'We've already given him a year'. And within that year we got record points. Why doesn't he get time to assimilate all these signings? Why does Sherwood get that time? I think Sherwood should, but when anyone with an opinion worth listening to is saying 'signing 7 new foreigners is a bad idea, don't do it' or 'signing foreign players usually means they take 6 months to get up to speed', why do we not give AVB that time? Saudi Sportswashing Machine are reaping the rewards of building a big squad last January, but they were all foreigners and they finished 16th, now they look like outside CL challengers again.

Then the argument seems to be, 'but the football was turgid'. I would argue that aside from Hull at home, and the 3 hammerings, the football wasn't turgid. We were inconsistent, sure, but we were still in touch with our objectives for the season. And considering the expected inconsistency in the first 6 months, it was pretty good going IMO.

You and others ( myself included) will never agree on AVB. I would however not call him a fraud or charlatan, merely misguided in the direction he was taking our club. He seemed a nice guy, who worked hard, but in a year and a half I couldn't see any evidence of any real coaching that had improved our general play. In fact the reverse. Corners remained completely ineffectual.

On the issue of 7 new signings, he has now inferred he didn't want half of them. This is contradicted by Ferdinand and others who say he was fully on board with all the signings. Which is it? We don't really know. If he did sanction all of them, then the idiocy of signing SEVEN new players can be laid at his door. The fact he couldn't make any of them work ( or even show some real promise) really is a sad indictment of him as a manager.

With regard to turgid football, I believe you are denying the evidence of your own eyes. 10 PL goals scored by us from open play in 16 PL games is really all you need to know to see we weren't scoring goals. Never mind controlling games and high possession percentages, it is goals which win games. Without goals we would never be successful IMO. His goal return was poor and this led to unattractive, unentertaining football. Not for me I 'm afraid.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

wait, why would giving AVB more time have solved anything in terms of scoring goals and the players playing with more freedom? Maybe he wasnt bothered about such things. Maybe he was very happy with controlling possession for 70% of the game, having pot shots from outside the area, and waiting for 1 or 2 chances for the players to score a goal.

Sherwood cannot fix this right away. Firstly he doesnt have a full squad to choose from, and the games are coming thick and fast so the coaches dont have much time to implement changes on the training field. 10 days is way too short

All the more reason not to change everything at once.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

You and others ( myself included) will never agree on AVB. I would however not call him a fraud or charlatan, merely misguided in the direction he was taking our club. He seemed a nice guy, who worked hard, but in a year and a half I couldn't see any evidence of any real coaching that had improved our general play. In fact the reverse. Corners remained completely ineffectual.

On the issue of 7 new signings, he has now inferred he didn't want half of them. This is contradicted by Ferdinand and others who say he was fully on board with all the signings. Which is it? We don't really know. If he did sanction all of them, then the idiocy of signing SEVEN new players can be laid at his door. The fact he couldn't make any of them work ( or even show some real promise) really is a sad indictment of him as a manager.

With regard to turgid football, I believe you are denying the evidence of your own eyes. 10 PL goals scored by us from open play in 16 PL games is really all you need to know to see we weren't scoring goals. Never mind controlling games and high possession percentages, it is goals which win games. Without goals we would never be successful IMO. His goal return was poor and this led to unattractive, unentertaining football. Not for me I 'm afraid.

I would say he agreed to the signings but would have preferred less numbers, and spent the money on higher quality. As he was part of a commitee he can't make all the decisions (the buck stops with Levy) but he can agree to work with what he is given. I would say that if he agrees to 7 foreigners, he would want more time and understanding that it wouldn't be an immediate success. There was noises when the transfer window closed that the board thought a title challenge was still possible while AVB and Baldini didn't.

I believe we would have gotten more goals in the second half of the season, after the foreigners had gotten their 6 months to settle. In the same way that if you asked Saudi Sportswashing Machine fans in March this year if they thought they'd be getting good football from Pardew, they'd laugh you out of the room. His football was long ball, turgid, and they were fighting relegation. Only now it's champagne football and Pardiola again this season because all their new signings (all foreign) have settled.