Alex Pritchard

[braineclipse]

How on earth does a player who is loaned out affect either team spirit or the wage bill?

You don't think it's demoralizing for young players to be a part of the Emirates Marketing Project or Chelsea approach? Every year a host of them are sent out on loan, and seemingly regardless of what they do there's been no realistic pathway into the first team?

Not all loaning clubs pay the full wage of the player. Some of the bigger clubs actually pay smaller clubs in other leagues considerable money for the partnership agreement that lets them ship players there easily when they want.

 

[Bullet]

I would advocate Coventry as a great club to loan our young players to, Tony Mowbray sets them up to play good football and they have a good mix of young and experienced players. I also like the relationship that we seem to have established with Glasgow Rangers. Warburton sets his teams up to play in the right way and our players would get experience of tough, fast paced football played in front of big crowds.

Or somewhere in FR DE NL BE

 

[braineclipse]

I think some players are more easily defined than others, even from a young age. I've not seen anything in Onomah's game either at age 15 or 19 as he is now that says to me he can become an effective final third player at a high level, maybe he'll prove me wrong but as long as he keeps playing there I don't expect fans to be wowed by him. As I said above I completely get why Poch is using him there but next season if it was a choice between he and Pritchard for one of those attacking positions I'd certainly choose the latter.

I don't know what your track record is with those players that are supposedly easily defined at a young age, but I will say that a lot of people keep getting it wrong. I don't see anything in Onomah that makes me think he can't play as a #10 in the future, and that's where he has played and impressed when I've gotten a chance to watch him (which has been rare).

 

[Finney Is Back]

You don't think it's demoralizing for young players to be a part of the Emirates Marketing Project or Chelsea approach? Every year a host of them are sent out on loan, and seemingly regardless of what they do there's been no realistic pathway into the first team?

Not all loaning clubs pay the full wage of the player. Some of the bigger clubs actually pay smaller clubs in other leagues considerable money for the partnership agreement that lets them ship players there easily when they want.

I'm not sure that it is demoralising for them. It didn't seem to demoralise Courtois, Lukaku or De Bruyne for example, all of them went away and improved massively.... Also I think Chelsea's method of loaning players was very different to the method that we had in place under Redknapp/AVB/Sherwood. It seemed to me that Chelsea would bring in foreign players with the sole intention being to loan then straight out, with them often being loaned for multiple years and to clubs overseas. They were effectively just stockpiling talented youngsters from around the World, irrespective of whether they were light in that position in the first team or even in their existing under 21/academy teams.

Our loaning of players contrasted with that Chelsea's quite a lot, we would typically either use the loan system to send the players who had come through our academy out to get proper first team football. Alternatively we used the system to move on players at the other ends of their careers who perhaps we could no longer get much of a transfer fee for, but where we could bring in a loan fee and get their wages covered for a 6/12 month period.

In our last season under Redknapp we had the following players out on loan:

Caulker, Naughton, Byrne, Mason, Obika, Ranieri, Archer, Kane, Parrett, Falque, Carroll, Oyenuga, Smith, Dawkins, Jansson, Townsend, Button, Bostock

I think every single one of those players other than Falque came through our academy (although a couple of them were signed for the academy at 15 - 17 years old). Now if you look at that list of players many of them have gone on to play proper professional football, with 7 of them playing at PL level. That is an absolutely huge return for a club. I doubt that any of the players above were demoralised by going out on loan. Just as I doubt that a player such as Onomah or (for instance) Winks would be demoralised by such a move.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Or somewhere in FR DE NL BE

I would probably rather our young players stayed in the UK, dropping down divisions here or going up to Scotland lowers the quality of the play somewhat, but the one thing it doesn't reduce is the intensity. Typically every player that we produce at Spurs has enough quality to make it in football, they just need to learn how to apply that quality at the increased level of intensity, they will not always get that in overseas leagues.

 

[braineclipse]

I'm not sure that it is demoralising for them. It didn't seem to demoralise Courtois, Lukaku or De Bruyne for example, all of them went away and improved massively.... Also I think Chelsea's method of loaning players was very different to the method that we had in place under Redknapp/AVB/Sherwood. It seemed to me that Chelsea would bring in foreign players with the sole intention being to loan then straight out, with them often being loaned for multiple years and to clubs overseas. They were effectively just stockpiling talented youngsters from around the World, irrespective of whether they were light in that position in the first team or even in their existing under 21/academy teams.

Our loaning of players contrasted with that Chelsea's quite a lot, we would typically either use the loan system to send the players who had come through our academy out to get proper first team football. Alternatively we used the system to move on players at the other ends of their careers who perhaps we could no longer get much of a transfer fee for, but where we could bring in a loan fee and get their wages covered for a 6/12 month period.

In our last season under Redknapp we had the following players out on loan:

Caulker, Naughton, Byrne, Mason, Obika, Ranieri, Archer, Kane, Parrett, Falque, Carroll, Oyenuga, Smith, Dawkins, Jansson, Townsend, Button, Bostock

I think every single one of those players other than Falque came through our academy (although a couple of them were signed for the academy at 15 - 17 years old). Now if you look at that list of players many of them have gone on to play proper professional football, with 7 of them playing at PL level. That is an absolutely huge return for a club. I doubt that any of the players above were demoralised by going out on loan. Just as I doubt that a player such as Onomah or (for instance) Winks would be demoralised by such a move.

The Chelsea players you mentioned are not really comparable. They were signed for a lot of money as supreme talents. Though, to be fair, both Lukaku and De Bruyne were left frustrated in the end and ended up leaving.

I think we've done much better in youth integration and development after Pochettino came in. We've been good at youth development for some time I think, but actual integration into the first team and development since then has taken a big step in the right direction for me.

 

[Gutter Boy]

How on earth does a player who is loaned out affect either team spirit or the wage bill?

Not all of them were. They tended to keep 25 + U21s (and sometimes even a couple who couldn't be named), whereas Poch seems to go 25 including U21s.

 

[Yoof]

I think we've done much better in youth integration and development after Pochettino came in. We've been good at youth development for some time I think, but actual integration into the first team and development since then has taken a big step in the right direction for me.

And do you think that will continue? The club has progressed quickly, now we're a CL club with ambitions of winning the title. Bentaleb, Mason and Kane were brought in because the team was struggling and the signings were performing poorly. People mock Chelsea and City for their lack of youth integration but more often than not they're competing for titles, now we're arguably in a similar position are we really going to blood more youngsters or are we going to fill those spots with signings? If I say we should integrate Harry Winks into the first team or that Cameron Carter-Vickers can be Alderweireld's backup Spurs fans will call me crazy, but at the same time they'll happily chirp about how we're the best place for young players to break through. Man Utd gave chances to a lot of young players this season but would that have been the case if they were competing at the top of the league rather than lounging around the Europa League places? I'm not sure many outside of Manchester would have even heard of Marcus Rashford had their season gone a little more according to plan.

 

[Finney Is Back]

The Chelsea players you mentioned are not really comparable. They were signed for a lot of money as supreme talents. Though, to be fair, both Lukaku and De Bruyne were left frustrated in the end and ended up leaving.

I think we've done much better in youth integration and development after Pochettino came in. We've been good at youth development for some time I think, but actual integration into the first team and development since then has taken a big step in the right direction for me.

I think it's still too early to tell how well we have done/will do with youth integration and development under Pochettino.... Onomah, Mason and Pritchard are the three who have come through under him, with Kane also establishing himself as first choice under him (although he was already first choice under Sherwood at the end of the previous season). Remember that Mason, Pritchard and Kane also all had loan spells to help them adapt to the pace and physicality of mens football, so their paths from academy to first team were already quite a long way along the road before Pochettino joined the club.

In the few years prior to Pochettino arriving we also had Rose, Bentaleb, Carroll and Townsend transitioning from academy to the first team. There were also players like Caulker, Livermore and Adam Smith who made the jump before being sold for decent fees as they were just not quite good enough for PL football at the level we are playing at.

Pochettino has a very talented bunch of under 21/academy players currently at Spurs and we will see over the coming years how many he manages to bring through to become top class players. I would say the following current/recent academy players all have a big chance of success in professional football: Onomah, Pritchard, Winks, Walker-Peters, Carter-Vickers, Edwards, Sterling and perhaps Will Miller. A year or so ago I would’ve also had Shayon Harrison on that list, but he hasn’t progressed as well as I had thought and hoped he would… I think he is a player who would’ve been better off out on loan and keeping him at the club may actually have harmed his development. I think it will be 2 or 3 years before we can really say whether or not we are doing a better job than we were under the old regime when Sherwood was in charge of the transitional phase from academy to first team.

Something that I do find quite interesting however is that of all the academy players who have managed to establish themselves as a proper first team player, it is only Bentaleb who didn’t do so via the loan route and one wonders whether he would’ve made it had Sherwood not been promoted to first team manager having managed him at under 21 level.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Not all of them were. They tended to keep 25 + U21s (and sometimes even a couple who couldn't be named), whereas Poch seems to go 25 including U21s.

I don't think that is true..... If I remember correctly I think the only players over 21 that we didn't name in our squad were ones with serious long term injuries (I think Corluka may have been one such player? and perhaps Bassong also?) I think both then moved on from the club once they recovered from their injuries.

IMO I think it is sensible to operate a squad of 25 players over 21, while also having a few under 21 players on top of that. A successful season will consist of upwards of 50 games. Having a squad of that size allows you to compete on multiple fronts and not have to throw games such as a 3rd round League Cup match at home to Arsenal early in the season, or a Europa League last 16 game against Dortmund late in the season. Under Redknapp (and to an extent under AVB) we had options on the bench that we could bring on to change a game if it was going against us, or options that would allow us to shut-up shop if trying to protect what we had. We didn't have those options this year under Pochettino, we had multiple first team players who had no natural replacement if they were injured/suspended/fatigued, as well as first team players who had something of a natural replacement on the bench, but a problem that the natural replacement presented a large drop off in quality/readiness.

 

[Vega]

Lyall Thomas ‏@SkySportsLyall 15s16 seconds ago
Clubs in Prem looking at Pritchard so far are #SwanseaCity and #MiddlesbroughFC. All Championship clubs have said they'd have him.

 

[braineclipse]

And do you think that will continue? The club has progressed quickly, now we're a CL club with ambitions of winning the title. Bentaleb, Mason and Kane were brought in because the team was struggling and the signings were performing poorly. People mock Chelsea and City for their lack of youth integration but more often than not they're competing for titles, now we're arguably in a similar position are we really going to blood more youngsters or are we going to fill those spots with signings? If I say we should integrate Harry Winks into the first team or that Cameron Carter-Vickers can be Alderweireld's backup Spurs fans will call me crazy, but at the same time they'll happily chirp about how we're the best place for young players to break through. Man Utd gave chances to a lot of young players this season but would that have been the case if they were competing at the top of the league rather than lounging around the Europa League places? I'm not sure many outside of Manchester would have even heard of Marcus Rashford had their season gone a little more according to plan.

You're spot on about United. With a plan to spend their way back to the top they brought in a manager famous for his work with young players, they struggled and finally started to look decent when LvG got going with his young players instead of expensive signings.

You're right that we've progressed quickly (so far). I really think how we deal with youth integration going forward will be very important for us. Some teams succeed at that "despite" being at or near the top, others struggle big time. Even United towards the end of Ferguson's reign really didn't develop and integrate a lot of younger players. Wenger has struggled to do this successfully at times too.

For me we should keep doing what has gotten us into this strong position. Focus on developing players and trust younger players whenever they've given Pochettino a reason to do so. At least until the stadium is finished and we have a better turnover I think it's clearly the best path for us. After that I think an argument could be made for a more short-term approach, but I will still prefer finding a way to make our youth policy work.

 

[braineclipse]

I think it's still too early to tell how well we have done/will do with youth integration and development under Pochettino.... Onomah, Mason and Pritchard are the three who have come through under him, with Kane also establishing himself as first choice under him (although he was already first choice under Sherwood at the end of the previous season). Remember that Mason, Pritchard and Kane also all had loan spells to help them adapt to the pace and physicality of mens football, so their paths from academy to first team were already quite a long way along the road before Pochettino joined the club.

In the few years prior to Pochettino arriving we also had Rose, Bentaleb, Carroll and Townsend transitioning from academy to the first team. There were also players like Caulker, Livermore and Adam Smith who made the jump before being sold for decent fees as they were just not quite good enough for PL football at the level we are playing at.

Pochettino has a very talented bunch of under 21/academy players currently at Spurs and we will see over the coming years how many he manages to bring through to become top class players. I would say the following current/recent academy players all have a big chance of success in professional football: Onomah, Pritchard, Winks, Walker-Peters, Carter-Vickers, Edwards, Sterling and perhaps Will Miller. A year or so ago I would’ve also had Shayon Harrison on that list, but he hasn’t progressed as well as I had thought and hoped he would… I think he is a player who would’ve been better off out on loan and keeping him at the club may actually have harmed his development. I think it will be 2 or 3 years before we can really say whether or not we are doing a better job than we were under the old regime when Sherwood was in charge of the transitional phase from academy to first team.

Something that I do find quite interesting however is that of all the academy players who have managed to establish themselves as a proper first team player, it is only Bentaleb who didn’t do so via the loan route and one wonders whether he would’ve made it had Sherwood not been promoted to first team manager having managed him at under 21 level.

Youth integration isn't only about our own academy players for me. Pochettino has only been at the club for 2 years, not a lot of time to move from giving someone their first game to making them a regular first team starter in the league. So yes, to some extent the jury is still out.

Getting players to where Kane was under Sherwood isn't the main issue imo. He wasn't a clear first choice player, I don't think there were man fans on here or in general who were arguing for making Kane our first choice striker when Pochettino took over. IIRC it was all "Soldado isn't good enough, Adebayor is too Adebayor and Kane isn't ready yet". Pochettino has moved him and other young players into being regular first team starters or important for our squad.

But he's also done that with Dier and Alli and he's made young players that many fans wanted out (Lamela, Rose) into clear starters. Liverpool fans have been fuming because they didn't sign Alli, Rodgers blamed the transfer committee from what I remember. But I honestly believe he wouldn't have had the season he just had if he had signed for Liverpool instead of us. Dier similarly has gone from "talented signing" to first team regular in a bit over a year. That's £9m of transfers for first team starters that got us CL football. That's youth integration too.

Perhaps a bit simplistic, but us having the youngest team in the league really tells a story on Pochettino and his work with younger players. What he did at Southampton only adds to that story. If he can get Bentaleb back on track, or if he can develop Onomah, CCV or Winks into first team starters in the coming years I can't know for sure. But I don't know of many managers around I would trust that job to over Pochettino in our situation.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...hed-over-alex-pritchard-by-napoli-sky-sources

 

[JerusalemMan]

That's an unexpected rumour

 

[Cochise]

If we do sell him, I hope we insert a buy back clause.

 

[Rorschach]

If we do sell him, I hope we insert a buy back clause.

I'd prefer a loan (where he plays) myself.

 

[Cochise]

I'd prefer a loan (where he plays) myself.

Same here, but it needs to be in the Prem and I'm not sure too many clubs would want to. If we sell him and he does well over the course of the next two years then a buy back clause (maybe a stipulated amount) would work.

 

[Whiffler]

Hull might work as a loan.

Promoted, Dawson/Thudd/Livermore influence

Would rather see him in main squad

 

[Glenda's Legs]

Apparently Saudi Sportswashing Machine are interested in buying him.
http://www.themag.co.uk/2016/06/Sau...Saudi Sportswashing Machine-united-tottenham/

It would be a shame if he did end up back in the Championship, especially if true that he did reject a loan to a Championship club last season as he wanted a PL loan (and unfortunately we know how that turned out).
I'd still like to think he'll get a chance with.