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***OMT - Tottenham Hotspur v Arsenal***

DeanoAustin said:
Ah stop. I’ve no problem with what Poch said as long as he doesn’t believe it.

It’s deflection in public which all the great managers do it. I’m sure he’ll be fuming.
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I'll be generous and say that I'm glad that he's picking on the referee. I want that - I want us to make the referees miserable when they ref us, to get in their faces, to *break* them. Poch has been far too restrained on that front for me - whether they make small mistakes or big ones, I want them to *fear* giving something against us.

We don't really do that on the field, because our captain is our goalie and only the captain is allowed to remonstrate with the ref on a consistent basis - and Lloris can't do that, because he can't come out and leave his goal open to remonstrate with the ref. But I'd still like to see us swarm the ref irregularly whenever we feel like it and question his every call - Arsenal did it today, and it helps in putting the fear of GHod into them.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Oh, *now* they're world class players who had blinders. City snuffed them out with ease. Watford snuffed them out *at the Emirates*. Every team with a bit of spine has had joy against these *world class players*.

And us, Tottenham Hotspur, with pretensions of a 'power shift' and of being top dogs in North London - we were sent packing by these suddenly world-class players having blinders.

The difference - effort, heart, fight, desire. The will to win. They sent us packing in that department - and looked world-class as a result. We showed up and lost before kick-off, because we didn't *care*.

Stats are pointless. Stats will list Son's chance as a good one we missed, whereas it is simply obvious that *any* open chance that falls to Son has a 33% chance of being put in and a 67% chance of being blasted into interstellar space, because Son *doesn't do* easy.

They could have thumped us, if they had the energy to keep picking apart Dier and Vertonghen like they were helpless schoolboys. They didn't. Lloris saved us thrice. We got away with 2-0.
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You are talking absolute nonsense today. Not admit that Sanchez Ozil and Lacazette are world class just shows your blinkeredness. When they are at the top of their game (as they were today) Arse are a potent force. Unfortunately our injuries with Wanyama and Toby, meant we weren’t defensively strong as we might have been defensively.

Unfortunately our worldies, Kane, Alli and Eriksen didn’t show up.

If you look objectively at the stats , which I know you dismiss, the xG was only 1.3 v 0.8. A small margin - and if you look at the graph, many of their chances came late in the game when we were pushing up. From the brief graphic Sky put up, I think we ran more in total, had more possession, more passing, greater passing accuracy and i think the attempt chances were even.

Eriksen hit the post, Czech made saves from Kane twice and Dier and Son had two chances at the end.

No way did we deserve to lose 4 or 5 nil as you suggest. I know you are disappointed- as we all are - but calm down and have some realism.
 
Pirate55 said:
You are talking absolute nonsense today. Not admit that Sanchez Ozil and Lacazette are world class just shows your blinkeredness. When they are at the top of their game (as they were today) Arse are a potent force. Unfortunately our injuries with Wanyama and Toby, meant we weren’t defensively strong as we might have been defensively.

Unfortunately our worldies, Kane, Alli and Eriksen didn’t show up.

If you look objectively at the stats , which I know you dismiss, the xG was only 1.3 v 0.8. A small margin - and if you look at the graph, many of their chances came late in the game when we were pushing up. From the brief graphic Sky put up, I think we ran more in total, had more possession, more passing, greater passing accuracy and i think the attempt chances were even.

Eriksen hit the post, Czech made saves from Kane twice and Dier and Son had two chances at the end.

No way did we deserve to lose 4 or 5 nil as you suggest. I know you are disappointed- as we all are - but calm down and have some realism.
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I *hate* xG as a stat - I genuinely hate it. Do you want to know why?

Because of this.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/harry-kane-is-premier-leagues-luckiest-player/

Stats are f*cking useless sometimes, and xG is the most useless, pointless, pretentiously d*ckheaded stat of all. Whichever moustache-twirling hipster came up with it should f*ck off and watch American sports where their fetish for stats is more thorough and pitiably prevalent, to the point where their sports are *tailored* around them.

Eriksen hit the *outside* of the post (and I don't even think he did - Cech got his hand to that, I think, even though it was going wide). Cech made two saves he absolutely should have made - a blind man would have saved those. And, as I said, Son scoring easy chances is a *rarity* - I don't even bother raising my arms when he gets the ball with space and time, because the odds are he's going to send it into orbit.

Ozil, Sanchez and Lacazette are as good as the opposition allow them to be. They've looked sh*te against worse players than the ones they faced today. City snuffed them out - they're on another level entirely.

Come up against our dozy, uninterested bunch, however, and suddenly they look world-class.

We didn't care. we didn't have Toby at the Emirates last season either, but we showed more fight then than we did today - today, we showed none, despite ostensibly having a better squad than we did last season (Sanchez instead of Wimmer, for instance). And as for our 'worldies' not showing up, that happens when you don't give a sh*t - that's what I'm angry about.

You're damn right I'm disappointed. You are too. So is everyone here. But I think the lack of fight disappoints me more than the result - by a long, long way. Our players didn't care. That hurts.
 
DubaiSpur said:
I *hate* xG as a stat - I genuinely hate it. Do you want to know why?

Because of this.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/harry-kane-is-premier-leagues-luckiest-player/

Stats are f*cking useless sometimes, and xG is the most useless, pointless, pretentiously d*ckheaded stat of all. Whichever moustache-twirling hipster came up with it should f*ck off and watch American sports where their fetish for stats is more thorough and pitiably prevalent, to the point where their sports are *tailored* around them.

Eriksen hit the *outside* of the post (and I don't even think he did - Cech got his hand to that, I think, even though it was going wide). Cech made two saves he absolutely should have made - a blind man would have saved those. And, as I said, Son scoring easy chances is a *rarity* - I don't even bother raising my arms when he gets the ball with space and time, because the odds are he's going to send it into orbit.

Ozil, Sanchez and Lacazette are as good as the opposition allow them to be. They've looked sh*te against worse players than the ones they faced today. City snuffed them out - they're on another level entirely.

Come up against our dozy, uninterested bunch, however, and suddenly they look world-class.

We didn't care. we didn't have Toby at the Emirates last season either, but we showed more fight then than we did today - today, we showed none, despite ostensibly having a better squad than we did last season (Sanchez instead of Wimmer, for instance). And as for our 'worldies' not showing up, that happens when you don't give a sh*t - that's what I'm angry about.

You're damn right I'm disappointed. You are too. So is everyone here. But I think the lack of fight disappoints me more than the result - by a long, long way. Our players didn't care. That hurts.
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98% of this is gonad*s.

Whenever we lose, people trot out the "we didn't care / uninterested / bottler / no desire" clichés.

It's such a glib, easy, catch-all criticism, and more often than not, total flimflam.
 
DubaiSpur said:
I *hate* xG as a stat - I genuinely hate it. Do you want to know why?

Because of this.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/harry-kane-is-premier-leagues-luckiest-player/

Stats are f*cking useless sometimes, and xG is the most useless, pointless, pretentiously d*ckheaded stat of all. Whichever moustache-twirling hipster came up with it should f*ck off and watch American sports where their fetish for stats is more thorough and pitiably prevalent, to the point where their sports are *tailored* around them.

Eriksen hit the *outside* of the post (and I don't even think he did - Cech got his hand to that, I think, even though it was going wide). Cech made two saves he absolutely should have made - a blind man would have saved those. And, as I said, Son scoring easy chances is a *rarity* - I don't even bother raising my arms when he gets the ball with space and time, because the odds are he's going to send it into orbit.

Ozil, Sanchez and Lacazette are as good as the opposition allow them to be. They've looked sh*te against worse players than the ones they faced today. City snuffed them out - they're on another level entirely.

Come up against our dozy, uninterested bunch, however, and suddenly they look world-class.

We didn't care. we didn't have Toby at the Emirates last season either, but we showed more fight then than we did today - today, we showed none, despite ostensibly having a better squad than we did last season (Sanchez instead of Wimmer, for instance). And as for our 'worldies' not showing up, that happens when you don't give a sh*t - that's what I'm angry about.

You're damn right I'm disappointed. You are too. So is everyone here. But I think the lack of fight disappoints me more than the result - by a long, long way. Our players didn't care. That hurts.
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Do you know what Arsenal’s home record is? Iirc, they have won 16 of their last 17 games.

To beat them when they play like they did today, our players have to be at the top of their game. Today, sadly they weren’t. It wasn’t for a lack of effort in my opinion,it was just that too many had poor games today
 
Just watching the 2nd half now (not sure why) and there were many many things wrong. Really annoying match but the arsenal players did want it more. They were snapping at our heels from the first whistle and we didn't cope with the pressure. We were pulling out of challenges all over the park and that was really disappointing.
 
Pirate55 said:
Do you know what Arsenal’s home record is? Iirc, they have won 16 of their last 17 games.

To beat them when they play like they did today, our players have to be at the top of their game. Today, sadly they weren’t. It wasn’t for a lack of effort in my opinion,it was just that too many had poor games today
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Why did they play like they did today?

And why did everyone except for Lloris, Sanchez and Sissoko have woeful games for *us* today?

We matched their formation. We have skillful players who seemed up for it and raring to go against Madrid. To their front three of Lacazette, Alexis and Ozil, we have Kane, Eriksen and Alli - to a midfield duo of Xhaka and Ramsey, we have Sissoko and Dembele, who should have been able to physicallly impose themselves on the Arsenal pair. I don't believe Dier, Sanchez and Verts are any worse as a trio than Koscielny, Mustafi and Monreal (a converted, titchy left-back). Lloris and Cech are even. Davies and Trippier versus Bellerin and Kolasinac are also even.

Technically, we are no worse than them. And yet, they outfought, outpressed, out outthought and outplayed us today.

*Why* is that?

Because they cared more. Because they wanted it more. We did *not*. We showed up beaten from the start, for reasons I can't possibly fathom. And we fell to the limpest of defeats in a manner that would have *appalled* many of these same players just over a year ago, when we battled to a 1-1 draw with a worse side,in worse form, than the fancy dans who showed up today, thinking they could get away with being totally listless and uncaring.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Because they cared more. Because they wanted it more. We did *not*. We showed up beaten from the start, for reasons I can't possibly fathom. And we fell to the limpest of defeats in a manner that would have *appalled* many of these same players just over a year ago, when we battled to a 1-1 draw with a worse side,in worse form, than the fancy dans who showed up today, thinking they could get away with being totally listless and uncaring.
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We seem to do this a lot !!
 
Why oh why did we buy Aurier?
What's the point of having him if he is not in the team...or setup.
He supposed to be the new Dynamo in the Team for Gods fcnking sake!
How much did we pay for him..a complete joke..I,m so tinkled off.

The arse boo boys were out in full force booing every decision the ref made..it,s always been their fans tactics and it works big time.
 
Pirate55 said:
That xG stat dramatically contradicts the one you posted earlier 1.3 v 0.8. Have to agree with Dubai that with such discrepancies , this stat doesn’t appear very useful.
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It is somewhat of a blunt tool which will hopefully improve as the various stattos improve their modelling methods... still a slightly better representation of the flow of a game than just looking at shot totals though...

https://twitter.com/x/status/931894859757178880
 
DubaiSpur said:
Why did they play like they did today?

And why did everyone except for Lloris, Sanchez and Sissoko have woeful games for *us* today?

We matched their formation. We have skillful players who seemed up for it and raring to go against Madrid. To their front three of Lacazette, Alexis and Ozil, we have Kane, Eriksen and Alli - to a midfield duo of Xhaka and Ramsey, we have Sissoko and Dembele, who should have been able to physicallly impose themselves on the Arsenal pair. I don't believe Dier, Sanchez and Verts are any worse as a trio than Koscielny, Mustafi and Monreal (a converted, titchy left-back). Lloris and Cech are even. Davies and Trippier versus Bellerin and Kolasinac are also even.

Technically, we are no worse than them. And yet, they outfought, outpressed, out outthought and outplayed us today.

*Why* is that?

Because they cared more. Because they wanted it more. We did *not*. We showed up beaten from the start, for reasons I can't possibly fathom. And we fell to the limpest of defeats in a manner that would have *appalled* many of these same players just over a year ago, when we battled to a 1-1 draw with a worse side,in worse form, than the fancy dans who showed up today, thinking they could get away with being totally listless and uncaring.
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That is why football isn’t played by robots but humans. I agree man - for man our team is better. But man for man Real’s team is better than ours. United are better than Huddersfield. So what?

Today, their key players played well, ours didn’t. Get over it. Why was this? In my opinion, a variety of reasons.

Wanyama and Toby missing. Dier playing in the middle of the back four not DM. Dembele not match fit. Eriksen hungover, . Dele off form. Kane not fit.

Combine that with a quality Arsenal side full of quality players who all played well on the day, then we were going to struggle. Add in a couple of crucial dodgy referreeing deCisions and we were always up against it.No lack of effort or application for me. They were simply the better team on the day. End of.
 
Today showed for me two things that we can’t effect
Stupid international breaks at awful timses

And basic refereeing errors

When I saw their team I said to my mate I’m sure they had no one play midweek... must we worked it out as half their team (we had everyone away or injured)

And that call for the free kick form the first goal was a joke ... pulling !!!! To pull shirt you have to hold it and move it against the players trajectory.

And then the offsides .. marginal but 100% off

Doesn’t excuse poor play and a lack of fight though
 
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