Tactics Thread

[Cochise]

I've been in a bit of a football theorist mindset since the Alderweireld signing. A lot of talk in some of the threads has been whether or not we will see the utilisation of a three man back line.

Now that we have 5 senior centre backs at the club (perhaps 6 if we think about how Davies did playing there for Wales) it is a possibility, but most of what we have spoken about here on the forums has been how we could crowbar our players into some semblence of a 352. A few people (myself included) feel that this system would not see us utilise the squad to its full potential and that our players don't fit the system, so I wondered what we could do to make use of the players we do have.

I honestly think that we could move into a 343 system with little fuss and perhaps just one more key signing. There were times this past season where we did almost appear to be working in a rough 2341 with the fullbacks advanced on the flanks and the wingers very narrow with Chadli at times running beyond the front man (Lennon did it often earlier in the year and in pre season). What's more is that I think it would still provide opportunities to some of the more promising youngsters coming up through the ranks which imo might be harder with the 4231 where we still could do with a couple of signings.

The lineup
==================

-------------------Dier------------------
-----Alderweireld-----Vertonghen-----
----------------(New DM)---------------
Trippier----------------------------Rose
----------------Bentaleb----------------
------Lamela-------------Eriksen------
------------------Kane------------------

From a squad management stand point I think we already have all the players on the books to offer a lot of possibilities.

Fazio and Wimmer can both perform a few roles in that back line and as mentionned previously Davies could play at LCB and as the left sided wingback. Yedlin and Walker can both come in on the other side and I think the wing back role gives Yedlin more freedom to get forward.

In midfield we would require a decent DM signing. Bentaleb would be deployed ahead as he has a great engine and would be freed from the restraints of the current system where he is currently the more defensive of the pair. The bonus of course is that in games that we are chasing Bentaleb can also fall back to the DM role and allow a more aggresive goal scoring midfielder to play in that role. Mason, Dembele and Alli would all be suited to this role though I think the role best suits a more athletic player.

Eriksen, Chadli and Lamela do a lot of good work in the inside channels as it is so this system would not be a massive change for them. Given the nature of the roles it would not be a necessity to spend money on the winger some of us would like to see. Mason could be employed up there if we wanted a bit more energy and we would also have one of the aforementionned three resting along with Pritchard able to come in. Townsend, Oduwa and Onomah could all be options.

Defensively we could still employ the same press with the front four players. When transitioning from attack to defence the wingbacks would come narrow to close the space available in front of the back three. Were the ball being worked down the opponents right I'd expect Trippier to come narrow whilst the DM shuttled across some and Rose covered the wide channel. With the ball on the opponents left I would expect the opposite to happen with Rose coming narrow on the other side.


I don't believe that we will see a move to a back three, but I do think that were it to happen, this system would probably be the best option.

 

[billyiddo]

would there be a need for a DM in that setup? with 3 CBs in behind it seems like a wasted position - the left and right sided CBs would be able to cover the wide positions


good post btw

 

[Cochise]

I think I'd prefer it with a DM, just because I could imagine holes developing around that area with quick switches in play. A specialist in that role who can identify the threats and marshal those around him to keep things tight would be ideal, but against weaker teams who perhaps aren't going to put us under as much pressure we could employ a midfielder with a broader skillset like Bentaleb.

Edit: Perhaps Carrick in front of the back line?

 

[milo]

The problem with that line up for me is that it gives us a lot less options going forward and there would be a risk of the attacking players getting isolated.

 

[milo]

Thinking about it some more, you would really need at least one quick player in the front three for it to work. Otherwise, teams will push up knowing that you cannot out number or out pace them.

 

[indianspur]

Poch isnt going to change his formation

 

[billyiddo]

Poch isnt going to change his formation

i don't think that's a certainty tbh - style of play and overall tactics will probably stay the same but im not sure formation is as set in stone as some think. lets not forget he's a young manager with only 5 years or so experience, will probably tweak things along the way.

although saying that i do think we'll stick with 4231 next season.

 

[Cochise]

I agree Milo, I think we could do with more pace in the side but I think our possession game will probably see teams sitting deep and little space in behind for us to run into. As I said at the end, I don't see us changing to a back three, this was more of a piece to highlight that a 343 is probably the best we could do if forced to play with 3 at the back. Ideally we would need Bentaleb to be scoring goals or whoever was occupying that central role, it really is a role made for the complete midfielder.

 

[milo]

I agree Milo, I think we could do with more pace in the side but I think our possession game will probably see teams sitting deep and little space in behind for us to run into. As I said at the end, I don't see us changing to a back three, this was more of a piece to highlight that a 343 is probably the best we could do if forced to play with 3 at the back. Ideally we would need Bentaleb to be scoring goals or whoever was occupying that central role, it really is a role made for the complete midfielder.

I think that teams would be more likely to push forward because we would be committing less men to attack and could not beat them for pace.

 

[billyiddo]

I think that teams would be more likely to push forward because we would be committing less men to attack and could not beat them for pace.

would that not play to our advantage though? more men pushing at us, less men back defending...

also thinking further on you formation Cochise i think you'd want more of a player maker in the Bentaleb position

 

[Cochise]

I'm gonna come out and say that I haven't got all the answers on how we would go about breaking teams down, though I'd expect most of that team's chances would come from Lamela and Eriksen helping to create overloads in the middle and direct runs from the wingbacks into the spaces that their fullbacks would leave.

I think that teams would be more likely to push forward because we would be committing less men to attack and could not beat them for pace.

We'd be commiting probably one less man forward than we do right now, but the DM would be involved in the play with the RCB and LCB both able to step up with the ball and distribute from deep. The wingbacks would also be posing a threat from wide whilst the two AM's would have a fairly free role. I'd be happy for the opponent to push onto us, in fact I'd prefer it so that our numbers at the back would be worth having so we could pass it around the opposition press.

would that not play to our advantage though? more men pushing at us, less men back defending...

also thinking further on you formation Cochise i think you'd want more of a player maker in the Bentaleb position

I'm torn on the role of that player. I certainly that think they should bring a physical presence to the side which is why I place Bentaleb in that role. Honestly I'd love a player to do what Alli did in League 1 last year and be bursting forward into the spaces created by the front three. Perhaps a player that is more of a dictator would be better back there (in the DM role), which arguably Bentaleb could do.

 

[Jordinho]

Last few games (except City, where Alli stayed back more) it looks to me like we've been playing more of a 4-1-5 formation (or 4-1-2-2-1 or 2-1-2-2-2-1).

Both Alli and Eriksen drop deep at times and all the front 3 move around a lot as well.

With Dier excelling, is the double pivot gone? I can see Mason thriving more in this setup.

 

[billyiddo]

The double pivot is gone but it's still a base two in midfield imo just Dier does the defensive work primarily whilst Alli operates more of a box to box roll.

 

[Jordinho]

The double pivot is gone but it's still a base two in midfield imo just Dier does the defensive work primarily whilst Alli operates more of a box to box roll.

Alli spends a lot of time on the shoulder of the opposition CBs for a CM.

 

[billyiddo]

Alli spends a lot of time on the shoulder of the opposition CBs for a CM.

I'd say that's part of the b2b role, no? Attempting runs from deep when we have possession and then when out of possession getting back in to the middle - with the attacking quartet pulling defenders out of position it creates space for those kinds of runs

 

[Cochise]

We have definitely gone to something akin to a back 3 when in possession. We almost always have three at the back, usually the two CBs wide either side of Dier although at times it's the two CB's with one of the fullbacks. At times Alli has looked like a solo CM with Eriksen and Dier, dropping in to become the second CM.

The fluidity of it is great to see as it seems we have a team of players happy to rotate through multiple positions on the field with the aim of finding a way through a packed defence.

 

[Raziel]

Interesting Article -> http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2015...tspur-are-at-the-top-of-the-epl-table-to-stay

Small piece

If you only looked at the club's table position, Spurs' run might seem relatively unremarkable. Last year Tottenham finished fifth, and they're fifth again after 13 matches. But what's more important is how they got there. In 2014-2015, Spurs were a defensive shambles, who stole results on clutch late goals rather than controlling matches. They conceded 223 shots from the danger zone, the region in the center of the box from which most goals are scored.

Those numbers place them fifth-worst in the EPL, and two of the teams below Tottenham Hotspur (Burnley and QPR) were relegated. This inability to prevent chances in dangerous areas led to Spurs conceding 53 goals and 51 expected goals, both numbers solidly in the bottom half of the league.

But this year has seen a radical turnaround in Tottenham's underlying defensive numbers. Now Spurs stand near the top of the league in every major defensive statistic, and they trail only Manchester United and Arsenal in expected goals conceded.

So what happened?

 

[parklane1]

Interesting Article -> http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2015...tspur-are-at-the-top-of-the-epl-table-to-stay

Small piece

If you only looked at the club's table position, Spurs' run might seem relatively unremarkable. Last year Tottenham finished fifth, and they're fifth again after 13 matches. But what's more important is how they got there. In 2014-2015, Spurs were a defensive shambles, who stole results on clutch late goals rather than controlling matches. They conceded 223 shots from the danger zone, the region in the center of the box from which most goals are scored.

Those numbers place them fifth-worst in the EPL, and two of the teams below Tottenham Hotspur (Burnley and QPR) were relegated. This inability to prevent chances in dangerous areas led to Spurs conceding 53 goals and 51 expected goals, both numbers solidly in the bottom half of the league.

But this year has seen a radical turnaround in Tottenham's underlying defensive numbers. Now Spurs stand near the top of the league in every major defensive statistic, and they trail only Manchester United and Arsenal in expected goals conceded.

So what happened?

And it just goes to show that last season how poor the protection from our CM was, Dier ( especially) and the addition of Toby have been the main reasons why we look a lot tighter.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

And it just goes to show that last season how poor the protection from our CM was, Dier ( especially) and the addition of Toby have been the main reasons why we look a lot tighter.

Whilst I agree Dier has been a revelation the reason why we are turning those solid defensive performances into wins (we were solid early in the season and not winning) is because the front 4 without certain main stays from last season are turning over ball by being detainee masters in the opposition half.

No good being tighter at the back at the detriment to our attcack but get the balance right like we have and we look incredibly good as a unit. Dier has had a massive part as has Toby but it's no coincidence that we have win every game Son has started as he does the hard work as well as the glory...

 

[parklane1]

Whilst I agree Dier has been a revelation the reason why we are turning those solid defensive performances into wins (we were solid early in the season and not winning) is because the front 4 without certain main stays from last season are turning over ball by being detainee masters in the opposition half.

No good being tighter at the back at the detriment to our attcack but get the balance right like we have and we look incredibly good as a unit. Dier has had a massive part as has Toby but it's no coincidence that we have win every game Son has started as he does the hard work as well as the glory...

All the players are working as a unit and its helping us become a lot tighter I agree, however if we had the same CM as last season and no Toby I very much doubt that would be the case.