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James McCarthy

scaramanga said:
I'm fairly sure nobody did that.
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On this occasion no, but I have seen it happen. Someone on here posts a stat to show something and the 'anti-staters' automatically assume said person is saying 'player X is great, look at his finishing stats' when all that is being said is, the stats show he's a good finisher.

I'm not anti-stats at all by the way, incase you picked it up that I was.

Bedfordspurs said:
But wasn't that the point. The stats showed that he made space for others. Did Commoli say anything different? (I haven't seen it)

The key with stats it's how you use them not you interprete them. Their actual points of data. Distance run is distance run.

Distance run on a certain point of the pitch may be more useful for a player who is supposed to be a tracking player I guess.. What you can do is then review the data to see if a player is running more due to hard work or poor positioning or something similar. The stats wouldn't demonstrate that without reviewing the games. That why stats don't work in isolation but when comparing two player in the same position/role in similar teams it's a great start and takes away the need for subjectivity.

You could argue for instance that McCarthy makes less tackles as he closes down the space better than Mason for instance but the you would expect his interceptions to be higher!!! Otherwise the ball is being passed around him and he is offering less

The best defensive stat IMO is number of interceptions. Anyone can tackle and anyone can track back, but great defensive players intercept the ball allowing your team to quickly progress onto the front foot

Xavi Alonso was a master at it and so is Carrick
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No, of course he didn't. Because he understands stats. That's my point.
 
This is quickly becoming a debate around the application of stats for a like like comparison rather than the merits of James McCarthy

Let's wait and see if their is any genuine interest the lad and I'll back him 100%

But on the subject of stats... Didn't Brenton once say after we beat them that they played the better football as demonstrated by more corner and throw ins... And sure I've heard Wenger argue that his team played the better football after a pasting by Chelsea. Football is all about simple stats in the end "who scores the most goals"
 
Millsy_Yiddo said:
.

I'm not anti-stats at all by the way, incase you picked it up that I was.
.
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That is the thing I have never come across or worked with anyone who are anti-stats, the main difference between the two sides is that some think that stats are the most important while others think they are just a tool ( alongside other tools) to help make decisions nothing more.
 
parklane1 said:
That is the thing I have never come across or worked with anyone who are anti-stats, the main difference between the two sides is that some think that stats are the most important while others think they are just a tool ( alongside other tools) to help make decisions nothing more.
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Actually I started the argument around stats and my comments were simpler than that.. Statistically we have two players who play in the same position as McCarthy and have better stats and were better than him when they played against him (not stats just my opinion). That what I was asking for a repost on, why would he be better than them?

No one has even argued he plays for an inferior side and would look better with better players that I've seen...
 
billyiddo said:
This tedious discussion any time someone dares back their opinion up with some stats is wearing very thin.

If you think someone in particular is basing their opinion soley on stats or are presenting them in a way which you disagree with by all means pull them up on it - otherwise let people get on with backing their arguments up however they see fit.
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Is there any stats to back up the notion this is tedious?
 
Millsy_Yiddo said:
On this occasion no, but I have seen it happen. Someone on here posts a stat to show something and the 'anti-staters' automatically assume said person is saying 'player X is great, look at his finishing stats' when all that is being said is, the stats show he's a good finisher.

I'm not anti-stats at all by the way, incase you picked it up that I was.



No, of course he didn't. Because he understands stats. That's my point.
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I don't think you'll find anyone here suggesting that people who don't understand stats can accurately interpret them.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
But wasn't that the point. The stats showed that he made space for others. Did Commoli say anything different? (I haven't seen it)

The key with stats it's how you use them not you interprete them. Their actual points of data. Distance run is distance run.

Distance run on a certain point of the pitch may be more useful for a player who is supposed to be a tracking player I guess.. What you can do is then review the data to see if a player is running more due to hard work or poor positioning or something similar. The stats wouldn't demonstrate that without reviewing the games. That why stats don't work in isolation but when comparing two player in the same position/role in similar teams it's a great start and takes away the need for subjectivity.

You could argue for instance that McCarthy makes less tackles as he closes down the space better than Mason for instance but the you would expect his interceptions to be higher!!! Otherwise the ball is being passed around him and he is offering less

The best defensive stat IMO is number of interceptions. Anyone can tackle and anyone can track back, but great defensive players intercept the ball allowing your team to quickly progress onto the front foot

Xavi Alonso was a master at it and so is Carrick
Click to expand...

A players interception stat though will depend on what club he plays for and their style. If your team dominates possession you will get less interception. If your team presses high up your get more interceptions. If you're team sits back like Inter against Barcelona you'll get less interceptions.

Regardless McCarthy is still never delivered his potential, has a tendency to pick up injuries and fails to turns up in high pressure games.
 
Modric THFC said:
A players interception stat though will depend on what club he plays for and their style. If your team dominates possession you will get less interception. If your team presses high up your get more interceptions. If you're team sits back like Inter against Barcelona you'll get less interceptions.

Regardless McCarthy is still never delivered his potential, has a tendency to pick up injuries and fails to turns up in high pressure games.
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With that in mind how would you see Evertons style against ours?

Reason I ask is that the player I've mentioned a few times as at using VFM alternative in Jedinak has better stats than both players at interceptions and he didn't okay much when they "turned the corner"
 
parklane1 said:
That is the thing I have never come across or worked with anyone who are anti-stats, the main difference between the two sides is that some think that stats are the most important while others think they are just a tool ( alongside other tools) to help make decisions nothing more.
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By 'not anti-stats' I meant I lie somewhere between your two extremes. When used correctly they can be an excellent tool, but in the hands of someone who doesn't really understand them they could be a disaster
 
Try 12.5 -15 million + Lennon, with Azza being valued at anywhere between 5 to 7.5 million quid. It fits with our ickle chairman's preference for sub 15 million pound bids.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Try 12.5 -15 million + Lennon, with Azza being valued at anywhere between 5 to 7.5 million quid. It fits with our ickle chairman's preference for sub 15 million pound bids.
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the headline figure will still be 20 mill.....we sign McCarthy for 20 mill and sell Lennon for 6 or 7 mill. Separate deals
 
DubaiSpur said:
How did we report the Vorm + Davies for Siggy deal? I can't recall exactly, but I think it was all one deal, no?
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3 separate deals - Vorm was undisclosed, Davies and Sig were both similarly priced, iirc


forgot about Lennon and a possibe deal with Everton - could add weight to the rumors i guess
 
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