Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[Cotswold]

This. Good overall post from SUIYHA re Bentaleb and Mason's importance though

It's astonishing though that with the central midfielders we've spent tens of millions on, apparently our most effective pairing are those two.
It would seem to lend weight to the argument that Poch needs able players who can play his system rather than being big names.
Having said that Southampton, with apparently lesser players and a new manager are playing better now than they were last season under Poch. Does that mean Koeman is better again than Poch or that last season Southampton actually underachieved?

For my part, despite what the stats say I'm not sure at all about Mason. Squad player at best if we want to finish top 4. Would love to see Schneiderlin and Bentaleb play side-by-side in front of Lamela, Eriksen, Chadli and a really top striker. I suspect that is something we won't be seeing though.

My conclusion at this half-way point in Poch's first season is that his system works with the right players but this is not a squad containing what he needs. I also think some of his substitutions/team selections are odd and that were it not for the Chelsea result, there would be far more doom and gloom than there is. I fear that result papered over some pretty significant cracks.

 

[Finney Is Back]

It's astonishing though that with the central midfielders we've spent tens of millions on, apparently our most effective pairing are those two.
It would seem to lend weight to the argument that Poch needs able players who can play his system rather than being big names.
Having said that Southampton, with apparently lesser players and a new manager are playing better now than they were last season under Poch. Does that mean Koeman is better again than Poch or that last season Southampton actually underachieved?

For my part, despite what the stats say I'm not sure at all about Mason. Squad player at best if we want to finish top 4. Would love to see Schneiderlin and Bentaleb play side-by-side in front of Lamela, Eriksen, Chadli and a really top striker. I suspect that is something we won't be seeing though.

My conclusion at this half-way point in Poch's first season is that his system works with the right players but this is not a squad containing what he needs. I also think some of his substitutions/team selections are odd and that were it not for the Chelsea result, there would be far more doom and gloom than there is. I fear that result papered over some pretty significant cracks.

Does that mean you don't want to see Kane in the team at all? Surely he is now one of the first names on the teamsheet either up front or, if we bring in a brilliant number 9, dropping back into the number 10 position?

 

[the dza]

Also, re. Mason -- this is his first season of top flight football, anywhere, ever. He is doing much better than Paulinho, Lamela, Soldado, Chadli, Chiriches and Capoue did in their first season with us. Chadli has gone on to become very good for us this season. Mason, starting at a higher level than those players started their Spurs careers, could go on and improve further and become a quality player for us.

I'd like to see the team built around Bentaleb, Mason, Eriksen and Kane. All gifted, young and hard working footballers.

 

[Raziel]

It's astonishing though that with the central midfielders we've spent tens of millions on, apparently our most effective pairing are those two.
It would seem to lend weight to the argument that Poch needs able players who can play his system rather than being big names.
Having said that Southampton, with apparently lesser players and a new manager are playing better now than they were last season under Poch. Does that mean Koeman is better again than Poch or that last season Southampton actually underachieved?

My conclusion at this half-way point in Poch's first season is that his system works with the right players but this is not a squad containing what he needs. I also think some of his substitutions/team selections are odd and that were it not for the Chelsea result, there would be far more doom and gloom than there is. I fear that result papered over some pretty significant cracks.

Yes, it would seem Poch is very dependent on his system, which again highlights some of the decision making in picking him as a coach if the mandate was to reuse a great extent of the players we already invested in. Chadli seems the only one out of investments he has really saved as Eriksen was always a success.

Re Southampton, lets talk at end of season, every season we see this (usually with an even smaller club) and by February its all very different.

Not sure about papering over the cracks, I think the Chel53a result showed upside, it didn't (for me) or shouldn't hide the fact that we are still short of about 3 players from a truly competitive squad (CM, RW, Striker)

 

[Gutter Boy]

It's astonishing though that with the central midfielders we've spent tens of millions on, apparently our most effective pairing are those two.
It would seem to lend weight to the argument that Poch needs able players who can play his system rather than being big names.
Having said that Southampton, with apparently lesser players and a new manager are playing better now than they were last season under Poch. Does that mean Koeman is better again than Poch or that last season Southampton actually underachieved?

For my part, despite what the stats say I'm not sure at all about Mason. Squad player at best if we want to finish top 4. Would love to see Schneiderlin and Bentaleb play side-by-side in front of Lamela, Eriksen, Chadli and a really top striker. I suspect that is something we won't be seeing though.

My conclusion at this half-way point in Poch's first season is that his system works with the right players but this is not a squad containing what he needs. I also think some of his substitutions/team selections are odd and that were it not for the Chelsea result, there would be far more doom and gloom than there is. I fear that result papered over some pretty significant cracks.

Koeman has Poch's foundations and momentum. He's Laudrup to Martinez/Rodgers at Swansea. Poch inherited a complete mess, based on us having a damaged, rapidly overhauled squad, which had been flip-flopped between progressive and traditional coaches.

I'm really surprised by some of the lukewarm reception Mason gets (Bentaleb too sometimes). He's been fantastic this season - the key agent in our turnaround. He's the first player we've had since Modric who moves the ball to our forwards quickly and assertively enough to give them half a chance of scoring. I'd say he's the most indispensable player in our squad at the moment - even ahead of Lloris and Kane.

I don't think the squad is that far off for it working for Poch. There's probably about 18 players that suit him, so we probably need to top that up with 3 more (CB, CM and WF/CF) to give him a workable squad.

I think part of him keeping Capoue, Kaboul and Paulinho on the bench/having cameos is political, rather than a footballing decision.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Yes, it would seem Poch is very dependent on his system, which again highlights some of the decision making in picking him as a coach if the mandate was to reuse a great extent of the players we already invested in. Chadli seems the only one out of investments he has really saved as Eriksen was always a success.

Re Southampton, lets talk at end of season, every season we see this (usually with an even smaller club) and by February its all very different.

Not sure about papering over the cracks, I think the Chel53a result showed upside, it didn't (for me) or shouldn't hide the fact that we are still short of about 3 players from a truly competitive squad (CM, RW, Striker)

But Poch is doing better than that.

He's not saying - I can't work with mediocre signings, give me top signings (like Redknapp and AVB). He's saying - I can't work with mediocre signings, but I can use the academy and a few smart/cheaper signings.

I bet Levy loves it if he's going - get rid of Paulinho, Capoue and Dembele (£45m worth of players) - and just give me Rabiot on loan to replace them. Blimey - that's 1/8th of the stadium paid for!

 

[parklane1]

I agree; once we can get a good DM who is up to speed and who can start quick forward passing movements we'll be much better. Stambouli shows potential but is still so-so (though MUCH better than Capoue...)

This position has to be a priorty, the only player in our squad who could do this is Stambouli but its early days yet and he has already been written off by so many so called experts who support our team.

Until we have a player who will give better cover to our CB's we will always have a problem.

 

[Gutter Boy]

This position has to be a priorty, the only player in our squad who could do this is Stambouli but its early days yet and he has already been written off by so many so called experts who support our team.

Until we have a player who will give better cover to our CB's we will always have a problem.

The whole essence of the Poch system is to have two allrounders. He straight away ditched one the best out-and-out DMs in the league (Sandro).

Bentaleb is the most ideal player there is to be our more defensive CM.

Our midfield questions are: can Stambouli settle in as cover for Bentaleb, and who can we get to cover/compete with Mason for the more forward-driving CM.

 

[parklane1]

The whole essence of the Poch system is to have two allrounders. He straight away ditched one the best out-and-out DMs in the league (Sandro).

Bentaleb is the most ideal player there is to be our more defensive CM.

Our midfield questions are: can Stambouli settle in as cover for Bentaleb, and who can we get to cover/compete with Mason for the more forward-driving CM.

(1) Sandro could not be relied on for his fitness ( as bent a'rry is now finding out).

(2) Bentaleb is a very promising player but he is not ( and I doubt he ever will be) a DM.

 

[Gutter Boy]

(1) Sandro could not be relied on for his fitness ( as bent a'rry is now finding out).

(2) Bentaleb is a very promising player but he is not ( and I doubt he ever will be) a DM.

He's not a DM. But he's the defensive one of our CMs, and it's a position he is ideally suited to.

 

[parklane1]

He's not a DM. But he's the defensive one of our CMs, and it's a position he is ideally suited to.

Which is why I said we need a DM as our CB's are left exposed all the time, I have been at most of our games this season and our CM is wide open to opposing players and we have no one who is good at tracking runs or sweeping up in front of the CB's.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Which is why I said we need a DM as our CB's are left exposed all the time, I have been at most of our games this season and our CM is wide open to opposing players and we have no one who is good at tracking runs or sweeping up in front of the CB's.

But we don't play with a DM - they aren't compatible with a high pressing game (where you need mobile pressers).

High pressing teams will always have 2 or 3 'moments' in a game where they are exposed, but it's an odds game. We have the gap in front of the CBs, because we are more aggressively defending further up the field.

A DM would be as useful to us as a GK who doesn't come off his line.

 

[Rorschach]

This position has to be a priorty, the only player in our squad who could do this is Stambouli but its early days yet and he has already been written off by so many so called experts who support our team.

Until we have a player who will give better cover to our CB's we will always have a problem.

Early days but Stambouli has been totally unconvincing IMO.

 

[parklane1]

But we don't play with a DM - they aren't compatible with a high pressing game (where you need mobile pressers).

High pressing teams will always have 2 or 3 'moments' in a game where they are exposed, but it's an odds game. We have the gap in front of the CBs, because we are more aggressively defending further up the field.

A DM would be as useful to us as a GK who doesn't come off his line.

Well until we get a player who can cover the CB's better then we are doing we will always struggle and be wide open.

 

[parklane1]

Early days but Stambouli has been totally unconvincing IMO.

I will reserve judgement on a player who has only played a handful of games, but we need someone who plays the position he does and what he was bought for.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

It is concerning if we don't have good back up for Bentaleb and Mason, and while great prospects it still seems a bit strange to be relying on these guys as key players that can't be dropped otherwise the rest of the team tanks.

I'm usually positive about all things Spurs but I thought we were really poor on Saturday. Stambouli seems like a good choice in that he will listen to instructions, do what is asked and work his socks off, but he's quite poor in possession, he can't switch play with any confidence and he doesn't really fit the mould of progressive passer in the same way Bentaleb and Mason do. He's a harder working, quicker, more loyal version of Capoue and I didn't think that was what we need.

Shame for Dembele too, obviously a great talent but can he ever really be coached to move the ball progressively and quickly? People were saying they thought he was against Palace but I didn't see it.

I think we are getting there for what Poch wants. Goalkeeper and defence I think we are looking really good, full back options and centre backs that can play out from the back. We need cover for both Bentaleb and Mason though. Maybe Carroll can be one, so we need another if Stambouli won't be it. Maybe Pritchard will be the good back up for Eriksen, and therefore we need good cover for Chadli on the other side, as well as a viable alternative to Kane. Despite his rep on this site I think Townsend is a good option, and between him and Lamela I think we have 2 players there willing to fight for a place as well as learn and improve. I'm realistic enough to know it isn't FM and we can't have some world class player come in and expect the option in reserve to be happy to not have a fair shake. Both Lamela and Townsend are willing to fight.

So we aren't far off, and I think next season will be really exciting if we have yet more academy products becoming more important members of the squad. Bentaleb, Mason, Rose, Carroll, Townsend, Pritchard and Kane backed up by a further British core of Dier, Walker and Davies would be great for our spirit. Complimented with the sprinkling of quality in the likes of Eriksen and Lloris, I think we are 3 good signings away from being able to make a real push, in a sustainable way that allows our club to compete. Progressive passer, goalscoring wing forward and Kane alternative, and we're almost there.

 

[glorygloryeze]

But we don't play with a DM - they aren't compatible with a high pressing game (where you need mobile pressers).

High pressing teams will always have 2 or 3 'moments' in a game where they are exposed, but it's an odds game. We have the gap in front of the CBs, because we are more aggressively defending further up the field.

A DM would be as useful to us as a GK who doesn't come off his line.

This is interesting, but surely high pressing teams have to play with a DM; i.e. one who is more aware of positioning and dangers from a defensive point of view?
Southampton have Wanyama, Bielsa's Argentina had Simeone and LVG's teams have often had DM (plus Barca have had Busquets etc), so surely we need an equivalent?
Bentaleb isn't that player yet imo

 

[parklane1]

This is interesting, but surely high pressing teams have to play with a DM; i.e. one who is more aware of positioning and dangers from a defensive point of view?
Southampton have Wanyama, Bielsa's Argentina had Simeone and LVG's teams have often had DM (plus Barca have had Busquets etc), so surely we need an equivalent?
Bentaleb isn't that player yet imo

Exactly.

 

[glorygloryeze]

So just over half a season gone: do we think we'll finish in the top 6?

 

[LutonSpurs]

Matic is a DM and he knows when to press and when to sit. Fernandinho similarly. Wanyama also. None of them are sitters. They do both.

Personally though I would like to see Delph come in. He would suit the system and he would be in the homegrown quota.