Tottenham Hotspur Stadium - Licence To Stand

[mudshark]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire

I suspect you may be right on both those last counts, and I sincerely hope you are bang on the money with the second, because I do think it would turn into a compromise, both in engineering terms and in terms of our identity, because it would inevitably feel like a ground-share. On the broader issue, though, I just don't think there can be anything more than a novelty value in it, ultimately, and it feels like the worst kind of short-termism. Football is the world's favourite game, which the Americans have only come around to taking a proper interest in recently because enough US-born players have spent enough time in foreign leagues now to give their national side credibility on the world stage. They're only interested in sports they can dominate, and now they think they can win the World Cup, so there's all the tra-la-la. American football, on the other hand, is more or less a cultural irrelevance outside the parochial borders of the US. I don't believe there'll ever be enough serious interest in it in Europe for it to gain a permanent foothold, and if a London franchise does happen, it will only be a historical footnote in my view, regarded ultimately as a failed experiment, albeit one that made a few people more money for a while. I'm just dead against that failure being enshrined in our legacy.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire

I suspect you may be right on both those last counts, and I sincerely hope you are bang on the money with the second, because I do think it would turn into a compromise, both in engineering terms and in terms of our identity, because it would inevitably feel like a ground-share. On the broader issue, though, I just don't think there can be anything more than a novelty value in it, ultimately, and it feels like the worst kind of short-termism. Football is the world's favourite game, which the Americans have only come around to taking a proper interest in recently because enough US-born players have spent enough time in foreign leagues now to give their national side credibility on the world stage. They're only interested in sports they can dominate, and now they think they can win the World Cup, so there's all the tra-la-la. American football, on the other hand, is more or less a cultural irrelevance outside the parochial borders of the US. I don't believe there'll ever be enough serious interest in it in Europe for it to gain a permanent foothold, and if a London franchise does happen, it will only be a historical footnote in my view, regarded ultimately as a failed experiment, albeit one that made a few people more money for a while. I'm just dead against that failure being enshrined in our legacy.

I get the impression that you're unlikely ever to have followed the NFL closely. Right? If so then, with respect, the value of your opinion on this matter must necessarily be rather limited - based as it is on scant actual knowledge.

As I said in an earlier post - every regular season NFL game staged at Wembley (since the first one eight years ago) sold out 85K within days, if not hours. The demand has been enormous. There are but a handful of Association football games in England that would sell out that many tickets that quickly. NFL has a large and loyal following in the UK and elsewhere in Europe. London is home to a big north American population. And, the icing on the cake, London is also home to a vast array of global companies who would snap up all corporate tickets on offer. The evidence is there. The ingredients are there. The research has been done. There is not a chance that a London franchise would fail. It would almost be a license to print money.

 

[mudshark]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire

I used to go and watch the 49ers on and off years ago, when I lived there, but no, I'm utterly bored by it, tbh. You might be right about its potential popularity, and you might not -- things change and they change again, which is why financial forecasting isn't a science, but in any case, I'm less bothered about someone else's licence to print money than I am about the harm it might do to the identity of this football club, should it go ahead here. As I said, I sincerely hope you're right that it won't.

 

[Bullet]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire

As I said at the time, we should have moved to Stratford and replaced that temporary structure with a proper stadium fit for football and other sports like NFL, with huge corporate areas.

Then change our name to 'London Hotspurs' to capture fans globally that recognise the word London more than any other in England, and to remove the confusion about Hotspur/Hotspurs/Spurs.

Set up the soccer, NFL teams as London Hotspurs, same with a Basketball team in the Basketball court at Stratford, same with the water polo team and any other teams nearby.

What's not to love?

 

[paxtonwolf]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire

As I said at the time, we should have moved to Stratford and replaced that temporary structure with a proper stadium fit for football and other sports like NFL, with huge corporate areas.

Then change our name to 'London Hotspurs' to capture fans globally that recognise the word London more than any other in England, and to remove the confusion about Hotspur/Hotspurs/Spurs.

Set up the soccer, NFL teams as London Hotspurs, same with a Basketball team in the Basketball court at Stratford, same with the water polo team and any other teams nearby.

What's not to love?

[-X

 

[greatwhitenorf]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire

There's a lot of merit in what JimB has laid out in his explanations.

I make much of my living hanging out in North American sports facilities and get to see how certain facilities cope with joint tenants. Football and the NFL do not look like the most naturally beneficial partners. The latter can greatly impair the quality of the playing surface for former.

Laying a NBA hardwood basketball floor over an NHL hockey ice surface is the most common situation I see. The quality of the ice degrades when this happens too often or the arena isn't able to maintain proper climate control. Over the years, they've learned to minimize problems. There's a very good chance that Populous will come up with a creative and innovative scheme to make both playing surfaces optimal for each sport and create equally optimal sightlines in either configuration.

A joint EPL-NFL stadium will have massive recognition, being the first stadium to host league play for the audiences of the world's two biggest sports leagues. The naming rights will be huge and the potential benefits for Populous are so immense that this is one project where the very best efforts will be directed.

Amazing things are being done these days with design and engineering. There's some very smart approaches being taken to creating the best possible environments for both tenants. I have absolutely no doubt that Spurs new ground will first and foremost be their stadium and that the NFL will be the second tenant. But no one should begrudge or fear a second tenant having the ability to make the place look like their home.

Significant in this thinking is creating suitable ways to quickly tailor the look of a stadium or arena to suit whomever is playing there. Instead of putting up printed materials or paint, new facilities are opting for electronic signage and decorations that can quickly and easily change colours, graphics and images to represent the host club playing on that day.

But Spurs will always offer, by far, the greatest number of game dates. The stadium is on their home soil. The history that pervades this location is indelible. A project like this will not diminish them in the least, but only serve to strengthen what is already there. The NFL will be grateful to have such a fine home to showcase its game.

And once that gets sorted out, look for the NBA to come calling.

 

[chicken_badge]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire

Surely the NBA wouldnt want a 60000 open air stadium? So will need to be a purpose built arena right next to the stadium.

That school where you normally park your car are about to get a helluva gym...

 

[Kandi1977]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire


NBA All Star game. 108,713 people

Edit: How the funk do I get proper size on the images here??

 

[greatwhitenorf]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire

Surely the NBA wouldnt want a 60000 open air stadium? So will need to be a purpose built arena right next to the stadium.

That school where you normally park your car are about to get a helluva gym...

Easy on the 'ludes, dude. The NBA reference was about London in general, not Tottenham. Like the NFL, they've been sniffing around London of late. Much more international product to work with as well.

The NBA would, quite logically, take up residence at the O2 Arena. Probably do quite well, too.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire

View attachment 2241
NBA All Star game. 108,713 people

Edit: How the funk do I get proper size on the images here??

Don't upload/attach, just type:

 

[Storky]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire

The NFL can exist overseas as they play once weekly and the schedule can accommodate Atlantic travel but when you're tslking 40+ home and away games and then factor in playoffs every other night the NBA and NHL will never work over there in my opinion.

 

[T-C]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire

I get the impression that you're unlikely ever to have followed the NFL closely. Right? If so then, with respect, the value of your opinion on this matter must necessarily be rather limited - based as it is on scant actual knowledge.

As I said in an earlier post - every regular season NFL game staged at Wembley (since the first one eight years ago) sold out 85K within days, if not hours. The demand has been enormous. There are but a handful of Association football games in England that would sell out that many tickets that quickly.

The International Series games haven't all sold out that quickly. I don't think the 2011 game did sell out (it was possibly 2010), although the events have certainly had momentum over the past couple of years.

I'm not saying that there won't be enough demand to support a London team in the future, but its debatable how long that will take. Even as a fan I can't see it yet.

The speculation is fun, but I can't help but see it as part of a bigger marketing exercise... at the moment.

 

[greatwhitenorf]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire

The Int'l Series games might not have sold out as instantly as earlier games, but there is clearly enough of an audience for this game that it will succeed. Consider this: At the commencement of each season, every NFL team is in the black financially before they begin to sell their first ticket, their first advertising board, their first replica jersey, their first hot dog or their first naming rights deal.

That's how strong the NFL's overall TV and commercial contracts are. NBA clubs are pretty much in the same situation. Revenue sharing on league-wide contracts makes everyone viable, regardless of market size. Look at the NFL having teams in 100,000 population Green Bay, Wisconsin, or 250,000 population Buffalo, NY. Put one in London, England, and the possibilities are immense.

Seriously, whenever and wherever this NFL deal gets done it is a dead-nuts lock to be a major money maker. Football fans don't have to like that or even support it - it will do just fine without you. But believe it. The NFL will be in London sooner rather than later.

 

[Flannerz]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire

I can't see a London NBA team working due to their 82 game regular season schedule.

An NFL team is easily workable as they only have 8 regular season home games, so it would be very easy to work those around our games.

 

[Superhudd]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire

there is preseason which is 2 home games from 4. But they are thinking of cutting preseason to 2 games therefore 1 home

so in all.. 2 pre Season.. 8 regular season... 3 play offs if we were to host the Super Bowl.

 

[Kandi1977]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire

there is preseason which is 2 home games from 4. But they are thinking of cutting preseason to 2 games therefore 1 home

so in all.. 2 pre Season.. 8 regular season... 3 play offs if we were to host the Super Bowl.

Very unlikely in our stadium, as According to the guidelines, the minimum requirement for stadium size is a capacity of 70,000.
Add to that the Superbowl is usually held in a warm city or covered facility.

 

[Grays_1890]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire

I don't honestly believe NFL will survive here long term but could be proved wrong.

Anyway it looks nailed on that Jackson will be going to Fulham as the UK franchise.

 

[T-C]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire

The Int'l Series games might not have sold out as instantly as earlier games, but there is clearly enough of an audience for this game that it will succeed. Consider this: At the commencement of each season, every NFL team is in the black financially before they begin to sell their first ticket, their first advertising board, their first replica jersey, their first hot dog or their first naming rights deal.

That's how strong the NFL's overall TV and commercial contracts are. NBA clubs are pretty much in the same situation. Revenue sharing on league-wide contracts makes everyone viable, regardless of market size. Look at the NFL having teams in 100,000 population Green Bay, Wisconsin, or 250,000 population Buffalo, NY. Put one in London, England, and the possibilities are immense.

Seriously, whenever and wherever this NFL deal gets done it is a dead-nuts lock to be a major money maker. Football fans don't have to like that or even support it - it will do just fine without you. But believe it. The NFL will be in London sooner rather than later.

As I said, I'm a fan.

Over the past three years I've been to all 6 International games at Wembley, been over to the US for a few Jets, Giants and Patriots games, plus the Super Bowl last year. I consider myself fairly knowledgeable on the sport but still don't believe that the demand to make a franchise work in London is there yet, or that the NFL have actually committed that a franchise is the best way to go.

Of course the possibilities are significant, mainly from broadcast revenues. Why does that need to be through a permanent franchise? Over the last few years there have been stadiums around the world pitching to get games. Would a franchise in London generate higher revenues than having 8 games in the current format in London? What about 4 games in London, one in Australia, Abu Dhabi and Japan? The real money will come from expanding global coverage, so why limit the league to London games.

Its highly likely that we will have spoken to the NFL, but the FA have openly talked of a desire to get more games or a franchise, as have reps from the Olympic Stadium. I'm pretty sure that I've heard reference to Twickenham and the Millennium Stadium being interested, and also read about at least one venue in Australia.

Yes, the NFL are a very commercially savvy organisation, which is why I don't believe that the new White Hart Lane will be dependant on anything other than Premier League football and occasional concerts. We'll be looking at US venues for inspiration on design and corporate hospitality, perhaps future-proofing ourselves to be attractive for the NFL with a flexible venue.

Talk of franchise in London creates media exposure = more ticket sales, and helps the stats for negotiating with commercial partners and broadcasters.

 

[johnola]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire

It happens at loads of places. Think about concerts at Wembley, Emirates etc. - they don't all stand on the pitch. Or indoor areas that incorporate ice hockey rinks. Most sporting areas need to be versatile.

Is there anywhere in the world with two professional standard playing surfaces?

We are better off spending the money on getting one supersurface which can cope with all the demands on it.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire

If we had an artificial surface there would be no problem sharing or putting another one on top. Indoor arenas switch between several depending on the event.

Natural grass require sunlight, air and water. In Schalke's stadium they just roll it outside and have all kinds of other events, like concerts, cross country skiing, motocross.

Building on top of natural grass is much more complicated. It can be covered up for two or three days without significant damage, but you need to minimize the pressure being put on the soil.

There are different kinds of mats that can be laid down for concerts, though the stage itself will leave some marks. A second playing surface would see the weight more evenly distributed. Don't think a simple rug on top will do, needs to be built up somehow.

This is a plastic surface being covered for some kind of motocross event: