Fans last night

[Shelfie]

I think 1882 is a fantastic innovation, probably the best thing to happen to the club since the emergence of Bale as a superstar. Without them last night it's likely our support would have been really quiet and quite likely IMHO that we wouldn't have witnessed the amazing game us lucky TV watchers were witness to.

I've long given up going to the Lane because of the non-singing, moany attitude of so many of our supporters, and thought I wouldn't go again until we got (if we get while I'm still alive?) our new stadium.

But now, despite my advanced years, I may well go to an 1882 game, to remind me of the good ole terrace days. Just hope thhe knees are up to all standing and jumping around.

Viva 1882, a marvellous movement and a shining light in what is something of a dark period for our club.

 

[scaramanga]

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

Spread 1000 fans who want to sing around a 36K stadium and they won't be able to generate any noticeable or sustained noise. Each will be on their own or in small groups. Whatever they sing will not catch on. It will die in their throats. And soon enough, they'll stop even trying. I know. I've seen it. I've experienced it.

But it will still just be 1,000 fans singing. Not a noisy stadium by any stretch of the imagination.

Now, give 10,000 fans good reason to sing and then you've got an atmosphere to be proud of.

Well, at the very least, a proper supporter is someone who doesn't **** off those fans who proactively do something to improve the otherwise woeful atmosphere at the Lane.

You honestly don't see anything silly about a singing club for grown men? It's like package holidays - they're not crap because of what they are or do, they're just crap because they're organised in advance and try to cajole a group of independently minded adults to all do the same thing.

 

[Paxtonloudmouth]

Eh?

Was that reply meant for me?

I was joking. Look we are one on this issue. We need to make sure the Lane is a place that gets behind the side not one that is detrimental to its progress. This is not just us feeling it,managers have commented on it.

This is a step in the right direction. It is not enough yet,but it is a step in that direction. You may call it organization,I just call it intelligence.

 

[Paxtonloudmouth]

But it will still just be 1,000 fans singing. Not a noisy stadium by any stretch of the imagination.

Now, give 10,000 fans good reason to sing and then you've got an atmosphere to be proud of.



You honestly don't see anything silly about a singing club for grown men? It's like package holidays - they're not crap because of what they are or do, they're just crap because they're organised in advance and try to cajole a group of independently minded adults to all do the same thing.

I thought you were pro choice ? So by your own logic would it not make sense that those that want to sing get an area to do just that. After all you lot have the rest of the ground.

 

[scaramanga]

Utter piffle. There's nothing remotely artificial about their support. In fact, the very idea of passionate support being artificial is just......bizarre.

1882 is just a name. An idea. The only organisation that is required is that an area of the stadium is set aside so that a group of passionate Spurs fans who wish to sing and properly support the team are afforded the opportunity to do so. It is an opportunity that is denied them by the realities of modern football - an opportunity that wasn't denied such passionate fans in the past, when we had cheap tickets and standing terraces.

Your attitude is, I'm sad to say, risibly pompous and outdated.

artificial
adjective
1. made or produced by human beings rather than occurring naturally, especially as a copy of something natural.

As in, creating a group of people to sing like it used to be in the Park Lane when it was natural.

 

[scaramanga]

I thought you were pro choice ? So by your own logic would it not make sense that those that want to sing get an area to do just that. After all you lot have the rest of the ground.

I've got absolutely no issue with people singing at the ground - I do when I'm there. My issue is the creation of a group to all hold hands and sing together.

 

[Paxtonloudmouth]

artificial
adjective
1. made or produced by human beings rather than occurring naturally, especially as a copy of something natural.

As in, creating a group of people to sing like it used to be in the Park Lane when it was natural.

Not everything natural is something to crow about.

 

[Jordinho]

I've got absolutely no issue with people singing at the ground - I do when I'm there. My issue is the creation of a group to all hold hands and sing together.

There are many that will join in, but we need it to start somewhere. If there are 1000 people that want to sing non-stop, why shouldn't they be moved together?

 

[scaramanga]

Not everything natural is something to crow about.

But artificial atmospheres are somewhat shameful.

Remember this place when the goons handed out song sheets? Or in fact the ridicule for any club when they try to organise an atmosphere.

As a non Spurs fan what they think about 1882 - in my experience they will laugh.

In this case, a natural atmosphere is better.

 

[Craig_J]

The reason people are spread out is a vast reduction in the number of people that want to sing.

It's less than 10 years ago that the PL was pretty much entirely populated by people who wanted to sing - now, as you've said, it's a few spread out fans. Doesn't the change suggest to you that the vast majority of our fans just don't want to sing? I can't see some corny glee club changing that.

What will change it is our club playing better PL football and qualifying for competitions worthy of our excitement.

Last time we were playing some of, if not the, best football in the league and qualifying for big competitions it led to the sense of entitlement you seem to endorse with comments like "worthy of our excitement". People started saying they wanted the manager that brought excitement and big competitions gone because we didn't win the league or we finished fourth but failed to finish above a mega rich club. Now that is VERY Arsenal esque. We had years before that finishing mid table every season and the atmosphere was still fantastic.

Scara, think you should have looked more towards Holloway when you decided on a team to support because there's a club based there that would suit you perfectly! (Please don't ban me)

 

[scaramanga]

There are many that will join in, but we need it to start somewhere. If there are 1000 people that want to sing non-stop, why shouldn't they be moved together?

If those people end up together, great - the atmosphere will improve.

Creating a club for singing is just ridiculous.

 

[7percent]

One last point- I think the 'artificial' argument is a bit flawed.

I go to rock concerts and there's different types of fans at rock concerts. There are the ones who mosh, and jump around, the ones who want to stand relatively still and take it in and those who spend most of the time at the bar. I'm not going to criticise the other fans, but I want to jump around and mosh etc.

So at the rock concert I go right to the middle of the front and jump around and get a bit crushed. The guys who don't want to go in the mosh pit stand a bit further back or to the sides, and the guys who want to go to the bar ...go to the bar.

My point is- we all want to enjoy ourselves in different ways so we all go the areas that allow us to enjoy ourselves in that way. It is far from artificial.

Now, I've gone to concerts before where all we could get were seating tickets, I looked down at the mosh pit area with envy- I want to be down there joining in with the mosh. In the seating area I do not mosh and jump around because the other fans have not given me implicit permission to do so. I do not want to negatively impact their evening out because I have no right to and because, like me, they have paid decent money to attend.

So when I go to WHL I have that same feeling of envy looking down at the Park Lane as I do looking down at a mosh pit. Just because I'm not singing doesn't mean I don't want to. It means I have respect for the fans sitting around me. In a perfect world I could push my way through the crowd to the park lane and everybody would find their place. It doesn't work like that though, we have designated seats in designated blocks in designated stands and tickets in the Park Lane are the first to sell out.

It's not artificial, it's perfectly natural. The really depressing thing is that I've found my mosh pit. It's called the Bricklayers. It's tiny and it's packed and the atmosphere is awesome and I can stand up and drink beer and everyone around me is giving me that implicit permission to act like I want to because they're all doing the same thing as me. I would love to go to more games and find a good atmosphere, but from experience I am more likely to see spurs fans turn on each other.

Just because:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V74AxCqOTvg

 

[scaramanga]

Last time we were playing some of, if not the, best football in the league and qualifying for big competitions it led to the sense of entitlement you seem to endorse with comments like "worthy of our excitement". People started saying they wanted the manager that brought excitement and big competitions gone because we didn't win the league or we finished fourth but failed to finish above a mega rich club. Now that is VERY Arsenal esque. We had years before that finishing mid table every season and the atmosphere was still fantastic.

Scara, think you should have looked more towards Holloway when you decided on a team to support because there's a club based there that would suit you perfectly! (Please don't ban me)

You have touched on another point there in all seriousness - the divisiveness of some players/managers.

It's very difficult to get people singing when there are comments like "I'll sing for the team, but not that pr1ck" - genuine comment from WHL about Redknapp.

I think we've now got a manager that we can get behind, and barring a couple, players we can get behind - that should improve things.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

If those people end up together, great - the atmosphere will improve.

Creating a club for singing is just ridiculous.

Get them singing REALLY loud derogatory songs about Ade or Captain bellend and Scara will be onboard in a flash.

 

[scaramanga]

One last point- I think the 'artificial' argument is a bit flawed.

I go to rock concerts and there's different types of fans at rock concerts. There are the ones who mosh, and jump around, the ones who want to stand relatively still and take it in and those who spend most of the time at the bar. I'm not going to criticise the other fans, but I want to jump around and mosh etc.

So at the rock concert I go right to the middle of the front and jump around and get a bit crushed. The guys who don't want to go in the mosh pit stand a bit further back or to the sides, and the guys who want to go to the bar ...go to the bar.

My point is- we all want to enjoy ourselves in different ways so we all go the areas that allow us to enjoy ourselves in that way. It is far from artificial.

Now, I've gone to concerts before where all we could get were seating tickets, I looked down at the mosh pit area with envy- I want to be down there joining in with the mosh. In the seating area I do not mosh and jump around because the other fans have not given me implicit permission to do so. I do not want to negatively impact their evening out because I have no right to and because, like me, they have paid decent money to attend.

So when I go to WHL I have that same feeling of envy looking down at the Park Lane as I do looking down at a mosh pit. Just because I'm not singing doesn't mean I don't want to. It means I have respect for the fans sitting around me. In a perfect world I could push my way through the crowd to the park lane and everybody would find their place. It doesn't work like that though, we have designated seats in designated blocks in designated stands and tickets in the Park Lane are the first to sell out.

It's not artificial, it's perfectly natural. The really depressing thing is that I've found my mosh pit. It's called the Bricklayers. It's tiny and it's packed and the atmosphere is awesome and I can stand up and drink beer and everyone around me is giving me that implicit permission to act like I want to because they're all doing the same thing as me. I would love to go to more games and find a good atmosphere, but from experience I am more likely to see spurs fans turn on each other.

Just because:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V74AxCqOTvg

I think you've brought up the perfect example.

What if, before the gig, there was a guy stood there in a name badge, holding a sign saying "This is where the mosh pit is"?

Nobody in their right mind would go there to jump about because that kind of organised fun is ridiculous. The mosh pit would occur naturally somewhere else - probably somewhere else because of the guy waving the sign.

 

[Craig_J]

I think you've brought up the perfect example.

What if, before the gig, there was a guy stood there in a name badge, holding a sign saying "This is where the mosh pit is"?

Nobody in their right mind would go there to jump about because that kind of organised fun is ridiculous. The mosh pit would occur naturally somewhere else - probably somewhere else because of the guy waving the sign.

Couldn't you therefore say if we have a singing stand/ area people could start 'naturally' supporting the team in a different area because of the 'glee club'?

 

[scaramanga]

Couldn't you therefore say if we have a singing stand/ area people could start 'naturally' supporting the team in a different area because of the 'glee club'?

I think the best thing we could do is have the club offer all season ticket holders the opportunity to choose their part of the ground from scratch.

I suspect there's a lot of people in the PL who would like to be elsewhere and quite a few season ticket holders that would like to be in the PL. Should give us an idea of who wants to be in the noisier parts of the ground without having to shame ourselves with a singing club.

 

[7percent]

What if, before the gig, there was a guy stood there in a name badge, holding a sign saying "This is where the mosh pit is"?

1882 create the mosh pit. Whichever stand their in the noisy people will want to gravitate towards. This isn't artificial, it is human nature.

We need to give more fans permission, implicitly or otherwise, to make some noise. I'm not the only person in this thread who has given up going to games because I don't feel welcome to sing.

Look at these organised w*nkers. Doing everything the bloke with the megaphone says. How lame. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhVKpsi5hPY

 

[Jordinho]

Megaphones are lame, no question about that.

Having a designated area for those that want to sing would be a positive move for both atmosphere and the fans that want to sing, but are stuck with the grumpy moaners.

 

[7percent]

Megaphones are lame, no question about that.

Think it was pretty cool myself. I'm moving to Dortmund.